Jump to content

64 posts in this topic

Posted

[quote]
[b]Linus Torvalds just can

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Yes!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

cool...so now does android manufacturers have to drop paying MS license fee?
open source can never fail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='still1' timestamp='1332976929' post='594763974']
cool... so now does android manufacturers have to drop paying MS license fee?[/quote]
The final outcome of this should directly affect all current and future licence agreements with Android makers. The FAT patent in question has always been Microsoft's heavy weight in its fight against Linux, so this could have wide ranging ramifications for licensees.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[img]http://i.imgur.com/siMAU.jpg[/img]


Microsoft won't get their "protection monies" anymore. I doubt that it will in any way benefit the customers, though.
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

A judge in England has little power over international proceedings other than to voice opinion, and maybe establish some precedent, with regards to foreign patent(s).

Last I heard, FAT was a Microsoft patent in the USA; if USA judges uphold the patent, UK, and elsewhere must enforce the judgment.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

It's the year of Linux!!!

/snark
3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='still1' timestamp='1332976929' post='594763974']
cool...so now does android manufacturers have to drop paying MS license fee?
open source can never fail.
[/quote]

no, not even close. android breaks soooooooo many patents that this one wouldn't even cover it. (im not trying to be on MS is side, it;s just that patent system is stupid and in fact does breach a lot of MS patents)
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

so he thinks he invalidates a patent because of a discussion topic... yet MS could of filed the pattent application before that you never know... I haven't looked into that but it could of happened... anyways... people have lost pattent cases against a patent holder when there was undisputable prior art to the patent, yet the patent wasn't invalidated... why does he think talking about it will now invalidate it?... some companies including MS and Apple have pattented things that had prior art and sued people it in the past... and they still hold the patents

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

There more to this then just the patent filing date. MS may have notes and info going back further, and with the new changes to patent law, (First to file instead of first to invent), it will not get over turned, plus it would have to pre-date OS/2 v1.0 and all the betas that included the technology that was in there that had the feature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='rajputwarrior' timestamp='1332978501' post='594764014']
no, not even close. android breaks soooooooo many patents that this one wouldn't even cover it. (im not trying to be on MS is side, it;s just that patent system is stupid and in fact does breach a lot of MS patents)
[/quote]
It's true that this is only one patent, but it's a key one in the Microsoft strategy. It's used in every lawsuit against Linux. Without it, it's going to be much harder to convince new and existing Android makers to become licensees, and even if they do license other Microsoft patents, the cost of doing so will be greatly diminished.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='neufuse' timestamp='1332978503' post='594764016']
so he thinks he invalidates a patent because of a discussion topic... yet MS could of filed the pattent application before that you never know...[/quote]
The newsgroup discussion is date stamped and on public record. That was three years before Microsoft's patent application. Furthermore, the judge in the case agrees with this assessment. You can't get any more conclusive that this in patent law. It's definitive prior art and completely invalidates the FAT patent.

[quote name='neufuse' timestamp='1332978503' post='594764016']
anyways... people have lost pattent cases against a patent holder when there was undisputable prior art to the patent, yet the patent wasn't invalidated... why does he think talking about it will now invalidate it?... some companies including MS and Apple have pattented things that had prior art and sued people it in the past... and they still hold the patents
[/quote]
Prior art has no statue of limitations. Once proven (in a court of law), the patent is basically worthless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='thejohnnyq' timestamp='1332979073' post='594764038']
There more to this then just the patent filing date.[/quote]
We're not talking about a few months here, it's [b]three years[/b] before the patent filing date. That's enough to invalidate any patent.
[quote name='thejohnnyq' timestamp='1332979073' post='594764038']
and with the new changes to patent law, (First to file instead of first to invent), it will not get over turned, plus it would have to pre-date OS/2 v1.0 and all the betas that included the technology that was in there that had the feature.
[/quote]
Does first to file apply retroactively?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

It's interesting that they're still using the short file name functionality, it was disabled in normal Linux a while ago because it wasn't needed any more (And was the only patented part of FAT I think)

Windows 95 and NT3.5 support long file names, I can't see much of a need for a new smart phone to interface with a DOS machine (Bigger issue is getting USB drivers for the DOS machine)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='rajputwarrior' timestamp='1332978501' post='594764014']
no, not even close. android breaks soooooooo many patents that this one wouldn't even cover it. (im not trying to be on MS is side, it;s just that patent system is stupid and in fact does breach a lot of MS patents)
[/quote]

How do you know this? Until recently no one knew what the patents even were.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='simplezz' timestamp='1332979858' post='594764046']
We're not talking about a few months here, it's [b]three years[/b] before the patent filing date. That's enough to invalidate any patent.[/quote]
Does the discussion become useless if they can prove it was being worked on before that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='The_Decryptor' timestamp='1332980655' post='594764066']
Windows 95 and NT3.5 support long file names, I can't see much of a need for a new smart phone to interface with a DOS machine (Bigger issue is getting USB drivers for the DOS machine)
[/quote]
(FAT)It's mostly used on SD cards for mobile devices, although, personally I always format mine to Ext4 because of its superior performance.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='zeke009' timestamp='1332981019' post='594764078']
Does the discussion become useless if they can prove it was being worked on before that?
[/quote]
It's a stretch to suggest that it took three years to create / get round to filing it. I don't know the exact rules, but I was under the impression the idea has to be presented or used publicly, not just internally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

A bit of background here:
Most devices that have a USB memory device or SD card of some sort, use FAT. Devices 4 Gb or larger have to use FAT32. Devices smaller than 4 Gb use FAT16.

This gives them compatibility with MS Windows. That's the only reason they use FAT. Otherwise they would use a better disk format like linux ext2.

I think manufacturers should use ext2. If MS wants to maintain compatibility, they'll just have to write an ext2 driver for Windows. It's not like MS would have to pay royalties to use ext2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Growled' timestamp='1332980788' post='594764070']
How do you know this? Until recently no one knew what the patents even were.
[/quote]

[url="http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/070611-microsoft-android.html"]http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/070611-microsoft-android.html[/url]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='simplezz' timestamp='1332979581' post='594764044']

The newsgroup discussion is date stamped and on public record. That was three years before Microsoft's patent application. Furthermore, the judge in the case agrees with this assessment. You can't get any more conclusive that this in patent law. It's definitive prior art and completely invalidates the FAT patent.[/quote]
Pretty sure prior art involves more than just a discussion. Torvalds would have had to implement said discussion into a piece of software or something for it to invalidate a patent. Talking about it means nothing.

I'm not a lawyer though so I could very well be wrong.

[quote]This gives them compatibility with MS Windows. That's the only reason they use FAT.[/quote]
If that was the only reason they used FAT they would have moved onto NTFS / exFAT.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='rajputwarrior' timestamp='1332984749' post='594764234']
[url="http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/070611-microsoft-android.html"]http://www.networkwo...ft-android.html[/url]
[/quote]

Your link does not prove your statement "[b]android breaks soooooooo many patents that this one wouldn't even cover it[color=#282828].[/b]" [/color]Microsoft claims they do but it has not been proven yet.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I know a little about intellectual property infringement in the U.S. (my father's company was involved in one of the largest ever in the U.S.) If there is one thing I learned it is this means very little as of yet & its far from over. I dont know the details, but once it gets to the States, the Patent & Trademark Office will be brought in & things will get so shady even the clerk who awarded the patent might even be discredited - nothing is off limits to bloodsuckers.

As far as "first to file" - & prior art - did that do away with the ability of "poor man's patents" to be valid and upheld in court?

The biggest thing I learned is that lawyers really will eat their own & special masters in very large cases involving some of the largest companies in the country are very likely to be paid off.

Did I mention I hate lawyers ? :angry:

[url="http://ipbiz.blogspot.com/2005/07/north-american-container-v-plastipak.html"]North American Container v Plastipak et al[/url]

[i]I wonder how much $$ Torvald was getting for his deposition[/i]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Regression_88' timestamp='1332977913' post='594764004']
A judge in England has little power over international proceedings other than to voice opinion, and maybe establish some precedent, with regards to foreign patent(s).

Last I heard, FAT was a Microsoft patent in the USA; if USA judges uphold the patent, UK, and elsewhere must enforce the judgment.
[/quote]
Seriously, did anyone else above (and probably below you besides me) read the article?

[quote]
[url="http://www.scribd.com/doc/86802197/Microsoft-Motorola-ITC-Initial-Determination"]Essex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Growled' timestamp='1332986657' post='594764320']
Your link does not prove your statement "[b]android breaks soooooooo many patents that this one wouldn't even cover it[color=#282828].[/color][/b]" Microsoft claims they do but it has not been proven yet.
[/quote]

there has to be some traction behind it if all these guys are paying them royalties don't you think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.