Google's Got Microsoft In A Headlock: Pay $4 Billion A Year Or Sto

[Xahid]

"Don't forget they started this, we didn't start this."

:D

Epic !

[xeleraph]

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:D

Epic !

Sounds pretty much like something you'd hear from a 4-year-old. Not to mention they're out to prove how mature they are by trying to take revenge on Microsoft by abusing FRAND patents when Motorola broke the law in the first place.

[Alwaysonacoffebreak]

Google keeps messing with MS until they'll pull the patents on Android. Good luck with that.

Google is big, yes, but they are going against a giant, that won't end well for them.

MS never claimed almost 60$ per device, not even be tenth. Their patents have also not been FRAND patents.

As far as HTC goes, MS got 5 bucks or so on each device, I'm guessing around the same on Samsung?

[Xahid]

Sounds pretty much like something you'd hear from a 4-year-old. Not to mention they're out to prove how mature they are by trying to take revenge on Microsoft by abusing FRAND patents when Motorola broke the law in the first place.

Well in that case, i don't even think any professionalism needed !

Since, the fight is not for money but to pressurise for patents !

[cooky560 Veteran]

No judge will find a $4bn yearly fee fair. At worst it will be a vastly reduced yearly sum, or a one off $4bn payment

[yardmanflex]

Doesn't MS also make a chunk off every Android device sold?

Yes they do..but they are not over charging like what moto is doing here..

[HawkMan]

Google keeps messing with MS until they'll pull the patents on Android. Good luck with that.

Google is big, yes, but they are going against a giant, that won't end well for them.

As far as HTC goes, MS got 5 bucks or so on each device, I'm guessing around the same on Samsung?

Which is less than one tenth, and actually I believe HTC got a special deal to pay less than that.

[ahhell]

Pretty damn biased article.

[Osiris]

Yeah I think at this point all you can do is laugh to be honest.

[Miuku.]

I know what the general user base is like -- they'll call Microsoft out if they disagree with them

Great, please point me to the Neowin where they call out Microsoft on when they're ****ing on others, trolling with their patents or threatening Linux users - not to mention where the users haven't had years of free reign in trolling every single Apple thread ever made. Because apparently me and quite a few other people have been browsing this alternate Neowin.

Better take those shades off sometime and take another glance.

No disrespect, but you guys aren't even explaining your viewpoint, you're just arguing the hypothetical situation of "if the sides were reversed." It's a straw man, basically.

Yes, Microsoft definitely doesn't have a history of abusing their size to crush competition with frivolous law suits and practically forcing PC manufacturers do their will thanks to Windows being practically a monopoly.

[xeleraph]

Great, please point me to the Neowin where they call out Microsoft on when they're ****ing on others, trolling with their patents or threatening Linux users - not to mention where the users haven't had years of free reign in trolling every single Apple thread ever made. Because apparently me and quite a few other people have been browsing this alternate Neowin.

Better take those shades off sometime and take another glance.

Yes, Microsoft definitely doesn't have a history of abusing their size to crush competition with frivolous law suits and practically forcing PC manufacturers do their will thanks to Windows being practically a monopoly.

So you're basically admitting that the your whole motivation to support Motorola/Google in abusing its FRAND patents is because Google/Motorola are basically doing exactly what you claim to hate Microsoft for, instead of any logical reason?

I'm not sure which is more ridiculous, your sheer hypocrisy or your ignorant belligerence. I'm not surprised that people like you would see "pro-Microsoft trolls" around every corner.

[simplezz]

This insanity has to stop, it really does. The whole thing is just a goddamn mess. Lawsuits over patents hidden behind NDA's, ridiculous licencing terms, patents on standard components, bans on product imports, copyright on lines of code. The whole tech industry is drowning in lawsuits, and the only winners are the lawyers.

I do agree with this. It's getting out of hand. But you have to remember Microsoft did start this lawsuit in the first place. Not only that, but Microsoft is also trying to charge extortionate fees on each Android device sold. Could you imagine Motorola/Google demanding 15$ on every copy of Windows and Xbox being sold? That's what Microsoft is currently doing with Android. I can't say I feel sorry for them at this point. They had this coming for a long time.

[simplezz]

I think this ruling could have absolutely massive ramifications on the patent system and patent litigation. If Motorola wins and Microsoft doesn't get a favorable appeal, the patent system is going to be even more messed up than it currently is, which seems impossible.

The patent system is already a shambles given the amount of lawsuits Microsoft has filed to kill its competitors. It can only get better at this point. Hopefully a win for Motorola will teach Microsoft not to abuse the patent system in the future.

[funkydude]

Hopefully a win for Motorola will teach Microsoft not to abuse the patent system in the future.

I don't think you understand the meaning of abuse. Every corporation uses patents to their advantage, it's pathetic, but abusing them is an entirely different thing altogether. For example, trying to "seek revenge" by using FRAND patents to request extortionate amounts of money.

[simplezz]

but abusing them is an entirely different thing altogether.

Trying to frighten off OEM's from making your competitors products with patents is abuse of its original intention - to promote innovation. At least in my opinion. Microsoft isn't the only culprit. Apple is doing the same as well, and it looks like Nokia is following suit.

For example, trying to "seek revenge" by using FRAND patents to request extortionate amounts of money.

Hold on. Microsoft initiated this lawsuit, not Motorola. And if by "revenge" you mean defending Android against an onslaught of anti-competitive lawsuits/NDA's designed to bleed Android manufacturer profit margins and force them to make Microsoft phones, then I say good on Motorola. Microsoft can't have it both ways. It can't sue all of its competitors demanding extortionate licensing fees, then bemoan the injustice of it all when one of them fights back.

[funkydude]

Trying to frighten off OEM's from making your competitors products with patents is abuse of it's original intention - to promote innovation. At least in my opinion. Microsoft isn't the only culprit. Apple is doing the same as well.

You actually think paying $4 per device is "frightening them off"? These aren't FRAND patents MS is using, they could charge a hell of a lot more than that if they wanted to "frighten" them. It's quite obvious MS has only one thing in mind, like every other corporation: money. If they "frighten them off" then the money doesn't come in, does it?

It can't sue all of its competitors demanding extortionate licensing fees, then bemoan the injustice of it all when one of them fights back.

Last I checked there is nothing "extortionate" about them.

I have no issues with corporations (children) "fighting back", it's the weapons they use to do so that speaks words for their credibility. "fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory".

[BajiRav]

Hold on. Microsoft initiated this lawsuit, not Motorola.

Read the judge's comments. No one is a saint here. Microsoft went sue happy when Motorola apparently threatened them.

1. What Microsoft offered motorola was a license for patents they had, when they didn't Microsoft sued

2. Motorola then asked insane royalties from Microsoft for H.264 FRAND patents that Microsoft already had a license and asked for royalty based on PC price NOT Windows price (which is ridiculous no matter what koolaid you drink)

3. Microsoft sued in return

Googarola is acting like crazy asking for royalty based on PC price which Microsoft has no control over. If they really need Microsoft to license their FRAND patents, it should be based on price of Windows. Think about it, why should an expensive LCD on a laptop should increase Moto royalty?

As I said, if Microsoft asks Google/Motorola say $50/phone for their EAS usage, they will go down the toilet unless they pay.

[Anthony Tosie Veteran]

The patent system is already a shambles given the amount of lawsuits Microsoft has filed to kill its competitors. It can only get better at this point. Hopefully a win for Motorola will teach Microsoft not to abuse the patent system in the future.

Microsoft has not tried to kill its competitors through patent litigation when it wasn't justified, for the most part. Microsoft has, however, tried to ignore the patents of others at times (such as the XML in Word lawsuit) and generally they've gotten what was coming to them. If you're referring to Microsoft suing Android manufacturers: then Google shouldn't have ignored patents and knowingly violated the law. Microsoft has not ignored Motorola's patents, and they're not seeking to stop their patents from being valid. They're arguing that Motorola is using unethical and questionable business practices.

A win for Motorola wouldn't teach anyone not to abuse the patent system. I think it would do the exact opposite of that.

(Although the issue of far too broad patents being awarded isn't going to be resolved either way.)

Great, please point me to the Neowin where they call out Microsoft on when they're ****ing on others, trolling with their patents or threatening Linux users - not to mention where the users haven't had years of free reign in trolling every single Apple thread ever made. Because apparently me and quite a few other people have been browsing this alternate Neowin.

Better take those shades off sometime and take another glance.

Yes, Microsoft definitely doesn't have a history of abusing their size to crush competition with frivolous law suits and practically forcing PC manufacturers do their will thanks to Windows being practically a monopoly.

You're not even being remotely reasonable at this point. You're saying 'this is how Neowin is because that's what I see.' Yet you don't provide any examples of what you see and then ask other people to give you examples? If you want to go down that road, at least make it a two-way street, because there's no sense in having an argument you've already determined is one-sided no matter what.

And I never argued Microsoft hasn't been involved in frivolous lawsuits in the past. But, again, you're missing out on the whole standards aspect of this lawsuit.

[neufuse Veteran]

really starting to think the only reason Google wanted Motorola Mobility was to sue people, not to actually do something with them productive

[Praetor]

the more i read about this patent wars the more i realize the lack of business ethics this companies have; in this battle of giants whoever wins, the consumer loses.

[mightymightyme]

There is a huge difference between saying "Hey, you're using our (allegedly) infringing patents (that have never been tested in court) without a license on this thing that someone else gives away for free. We want to strike a licensing agreement and make you pay us for every device sold" and "Hey, we bought this company that has these patents that were licensed to you at a reasonable rate, and so you incorporated these technologies into your products based on those reasonable rates, and now were going to raise these rates extraordinarily (even though we promised we wouldn't do that when we licensed these patents and when we bought the company)"

[Anthony Tosie Veteran]

the more i read about this patent wars the more i realize the lack of business ethics this companies have; in this battle of giants whoever wins, the consumer loses.

The only way there's going to be a win-win is if Motorola keeps the minimal price and Microsoft allows Google to license its patents for Android. That would likely require Google to start charging manufacturers for Android, though.

[+M2Ys4U Subscriber¹]

FRAND is a fraud anyway.

[Dwarden]

like half cost of mobile devices are totally weird license fees which have nothing to do with real patents/innovative ideas deserving protection...

[lt8480]

All the companies should just pay whatever is demanded from one another.

Then up the price per unit to cover the cost (including lawyers etc.) and add a new packaging label:

eg. Microsoft Xbox labelled as "Xbox now $20 more! - thanks to the... Google Tax :)"

If they all did this I'm sure they would start negotiating so their stickers weren't on others packaging, or very low figures.