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Microsoft Drops Aero from Windows 8


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#496 johnporter29

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 14:16

View Postbutilikethecookie, on 30 May 2012 - 14:12, said:

Wow! This has really gotten off topic! Try to stay on Aero theme guys!

What did you expect? EVERY Windows 8 thread becomes a flame war between those who love Windows 8 and those who hate it. I would post my views of Windows 8 now I've been using it full time for a couple of days but not going to because it will end up just been the same.

It's a real shame that a forum appears to be splitting into 2 camps, "I love WIndows 8" and "I hate Windows 8", the amount of crap regularly posted by people from both sides is completely unbelieveable!


#497 vetGrowled

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:17

^ Yeah, things are getting a bit crazy, aren't they?

#498 +ViperAFK

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:23

I'd just like to see a proper resolution screenshot of the new "aeroless" theme. The ones I've seen are tiny..

#499 Synthetic

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 04:48

View PostViperAFK, on 04 June 2012 - 02:23, said:

I'd just like to see a proper resolution screenshot of the new "aeroless" theme. The ones I've seen are tiny..
Word up to that! It's hard to tell what's going on when the pic is 200x200... :/

#500 dafin0

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 05:01

View Postjohnporter29, on 03 June 2012 - 14:16, said:

What did you expect? EVERY Windows 8 thread becomes a flame war between those who love Windows 8 and those who hate it. I would post my views of Windows 8 now I've been using it full time for a couple of days but not going to because it will end up just been the same.

It's a real shame that a forum appears to be splitting into 2 camps, "I love WIndows 8" and "I hate Windows 8", the amount of crap regularly posted by people from both sides is completely unbelieveable!

to be fair its normally only about 10 people on ether side that post stuff like that.
i have pretty much stopped posting in Windows 8 forums.

#501 Ice_Blue

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 07:07

^ Yeah. I feel the same way.
This is like the PC/Mac flamewars of old.

#502 +Quillz

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 08:38

View PostViperAFK, on 04 June 2012 - 02:23, said:

I'd just like to see a proper resolution screenshot of the new "aeroless" theme. The ones I've seen are tiny..
I'm guessing that it more or less will look like what changing the Windows Basic theme color to "White" in the RP looks like.

#503 theyarecomingforyou

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:11

View Postjohnporter29, on 03 June 2012 - 14:16, said:

What did you expect? EVERY Windows 8 thread becomes a flame war between those who love Windows 8 and those who hate it. I would post my views of Windows 8 now I've been using it full time for a couple of days but not going to because it will end up just been the same.

It's a real shame that a forum appears to be splitting into 2 camps, "I love WIndows 8" and "I hate Windows 8", the amount of crap regularly posted by people from both sides is completely unbelieveable!
To be fair there are plenty of people like myself who are somewhere in the middle. I'm looking forward to Windows 8 and will likely be upgrading but I am highly critical of some of the design decisions, especially the changes to multi-monitor support in the RP. There is so much potential but there are so many inconsistencies and annoyances. For instance, why when you side-pin a Metro app does it leave your desktop blank? Clicking takes you back to the Start screen and hides your app, then clicking the desktop tile brings back both the desktop and the app.

Microsoft's problem is how it deals with the traditional desktop user with a mouse and keyboard. The assumption should be that the desktop is the default view, both on logging into Windows and when launching apps; the opposite should be true for tablet users. On the desktop the start screen should be used for launching apps. That way when you side-snap a Metro app the desktop would appear alongside it. I have no problem with Metro apps but you're never going to get a feature comparable version of Photoshop or Cubase in Metro - it cannot replace the role of the traditional desktop. But this is Win7 all over again. Microsoft implemented the superbar for pinning apps but failed in the implementation of window grouping. With an app with just one window you can click on the taskbar button to restore it, yet when you add more windows rather than default to the last used window - as would be expected - it instead brings up a preview screen. And this was especially problematic in apps like Live Messenger and Skype which produce "fake" windows in order to deal with remaining logged in - it was a complete bodge.

Windows 8 brings a lot to the table but there are plenty of legitimate concerns that simply haven't been addressed. Don't get me wrong, a lot of the criticism is overly emotional, infantile and wildly hysterical but that shouldn't mask the legitimate concerns that people have. I expect it won't be until Windows 9 that Microsoft really polishes out issues and even then - like the remaining Win7 issues - I'm not hopeful some of the biggest annoyances will be addressed.

#504 Neobond

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:19

I can't see how a full screen Metro weather app is any better (except maybe for looks) than the Windows Vista/7 weather gadget that can be pinned to the desktop and always there at a glance in my case, where I have a dual monitor setup.

Same goes for most other apps, you're either trapped in that one app (or minimal view if it's snapped to the side) but on the traditional desktop you can have multiple programs running, more than Microsoft allows in Metro even?

#505 Neobond

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:22

Case in point:

Windows 8 weather app (even with two screens not everything fits?)

Attached Image: SNAG-0002.png

and Windows 7 gadget, displays at a glance what I want to see, I can click to go to the website and get all the other information.

Attached Image: SNAG-0003.png

#506 GP007

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:25

Because metro apps will also run on mobile devices they can't be treated and or handled like desktop apps. Running a number of windows like you do on the desktop with one over the other and overlapping and so on is not good for a mobile device, like a tablet. The winrt api/framework is also new and not yet at the level were MS can leave it without a number of restrictions. But these will all change, you have to think ahead, Win8 is just one step in the process, Win9 will be the next step and that one will probably change around the desktop even more. When hardware, battery life and the api/framework are all at the point where they're ready then these limitations will be gone, we'll get metro apps on the "desktop" and so on. That's what I expect anyways, and since MS itself has stated officially, many times, that the desktop isn't going anywhere then having it support running metro apps is the next logical step to take.

#507 GP007

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:28

View PostNeobond, on 04 June 2012 - 11:22, said:

Case in point:

Windows 8 weather app (even with two screens not everything fits?)

Attachment SNAG-0002.png

and Windows 7 gadget, displays at a glance what I want to see, I can click to go to the website and get all the other information.

Attachment SNAG-0003.png

The equivalent version of your weather gadget is the weather apps live tile. Who says you have to open the whole app if all you want is the basic info that the live tile gives, which is the same the gadget gives. To see the gadget, unless you have the old vista sidebar loaded and always on, you'll either use aero peak, or do a winkey+d to show the desktop, look at the gadget and then winkey+d again to bring back your apps. To that extent, looking at the weather live tile is a simple winkey press, look at it, winkey press again and you're back to the desktop. So, long story short, it's the same thing.

#508 jakem1

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:31

View Posttheyarecomingforyou, on 04 June 2012 - 11:11, said:

To be fair there are plenty of people like myself who are somewhere in the middle. I'm looking forward to Windows 8 and will likely be upgrading but I am highly critical of some of the design decisions, especially the changes to multi-monitor support in the RP. There is so much potential but there are so many inconsistencies and annoyances. For instance, why when you side-pin a Metro app does it leave your desktop blank? Clicking takes you back to the Start screen and hides your app, then clicking the desktop tile brings back both the desktop and the app.

I've noticed this behaviour when you only have a single app open and snap it and agree that it feels weird. The alternative would be to have the Start screen filling the remaining space on the screen but I think they've decided that the Start screen should always be full screen. I can kind of understand why they've done it the way have but it does feel clumsy.

View Posttheyarecomingforyou, on 04 June 2012 - 11:11, said:

Microsoft's problem is how it deals with the traditional desktop user with a mouse and keyboard. The assumption should be that the desktop is the default view, both on logging into Windows and when launching apps; the opposite should be true for tablet users. On the desktop the start screen should be used for launching apps. That way when you side-snap a Metro app the desktop would appear alongside it. I have no problem with Metro apps but you're never going to get a feature comparable version of Photoshop or Cubase in Metro - it cannot replace the role of the traditional desktop. But this is Win7 all over again. Microsoft implemented the superbar for pinning apps but failed in the implementation of window grouping. With an app with just one window you can click on the taskbar button to restore it, yet when you add more windows rather than default to the last used window - as would be expected - it instead brings up a preview screen. And this was especially problematic in apps like Live Messenger and Skype which produce "fake" windows in order to deal with remaining logged in - it was a complete bodge.

I agree that there will never be Metro equivalents of the full versions of productivity apps like Photoshop and that's why the desktop remains. Remember though that the majority of people don't use these kinds of apps or only use them rarely. Most people only use their computers to access the internet, send the occasional email and sometimes listen to music or look at pictures. Those users could very easily stick to using Metro-based apps and never use the desktop again.

For everyone else, as I've said elsewhere, I think MS should add an option to boot to the desktop by default. They could bury it as a group policy setting if necessary but it would appease those users who spend most of their time using productivity applications on the desktop and don't see the need for Metro-based apps.

View Posttheyarecomingforyou, on 04 June 2012 - 11:11, said:

Windows 8 brings a lot to the table but there are plenty of legitimate concerns that simply haven't been addressed. Don't get me wrong, a lot of the criticism is overly emotional, infantile and wildly hysterical but that shouldn't mask the legitimate concerns that people have. I expect it won't be until Windows 9 that Microsoft really polishes out issues and even then - like the remaining Win7 issues - I'm not hopeful some of the biggest annoyances will be addressed.

I agree, most of the complaints probably won't be addressed. Of course, the main one comes from people who absolutely refuse to accept the Start screen and they will never be satisfied - the Start menu won't be returning and that's the way it should be. The smaller usability issues like the ones you described above could be addressed though and it would be nice if Microsoft did something about them. We've already seen them try to improve problems with hot corner support on multi-monitor setups so there may be some hope but I wouldn't put any money on it for now.

#509 Neobond

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:34

View PostGP007, on 04 June 2012 - 11:28, said:

The equivalent version of your weather gadget is the weather apps live tile. Who says you have to open the whole app if all you want is the basic info that the live tile gives, which is the same the gadget gives. To see the gadget, unless you have the old vista sidebar loaded and always on, you'll either use aero peak, or do a winkey+d to show the desktop, look at the gadget and then winkey+d again to bring back your apps. To that extent, looking at the weather live tile is a simple winkey press, look at it, winkey press again and you're back to the desktop. So, long story short, it's the same thing.

Sort of... as I said I have a dual monitor setup and the Windows 7 weather gadget is always visible because that's how I placed it.

#510 jakem1

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:34

View PostNeobond, on 04 June 2012 - 11:19, said:

I can't see how a full screen Metro weather app is any better (except maybe for looks) than the Windows Vista/7 weather gadget that can be pinned to the desktop and always there at a glance in my case, where I have a dual monitor setup.

Same goes for most other apps, you're either trapped in that one app (or minimal view if it's snapped to the side) but on the traditional desktop you can have multiple programs running, more than Microsoft allows in Metro even?

You don't need to open the weather app to see the weather though. The live tile will present you with as much information as the gadget but you can view it without having to go back to your desktop.

Of course, the live tile has the added benefit of acting as an application icon which allows you to launch the full screen app and view additional information if you want to. The gadget doesn't allow you to do that.

EDIT: Never mind, I see you and GP007 have already answered this :)