537 replies to this topic 10 votes

[GP007]

jakem1, on 04 June 2012 - 11:31, said:

I agree, most of the complaints probably won't be addressed. Of course, the main one comes from people who absolutely refuse to accept the Start screen and they will never be satisfied - the Start menu won't be returning and that's the way it should be. The smaller usability issues like the ones you described above could be addressed though and it would be nice if Microsoft did something about them. We've already seen them try to improve problems with hot corner support on multi-monitor setups so there may be some hope but I wouldn't put any money on it for now.

I think that Win8 could be the first Windows OS where service packs play a bigger role (not counting XP SP2 ofc). I'm sure they know they can't release it as is and then have it sit like that till Windows 9. I expect, or maybe hope, that SP1 a year or so later will bring with it a good chunk of updates/changes/fixes to the UI and so on.

[Neobond]

jakem1, on 04 June 2012 - 11:34, said:

You don't need to open the weather app to see the weather though. The live tile will present you with as much information as the gadget but you can view it without having to go back to your desktop.

Of course, the live tile has the added benefit of acting as an application icon which allows you to launch the full screen app and view additional information if you want to. The gadget doesn't allow you to do that.

EDIT: Never mind, I see you and GP007 have already answered this

I want to be able to place live tiles on my desktop though, I want them where I want them, not in some Start page. That would make it a little more productive.

[GP007]

Neobond, on 04 June 2012 - 11:34, said:

Sort of... as I said I have a dual monitor setup and the Windows 7 weather gadget is always visible because that's how I placed it.

Ok, that's fine really, I'd also toss out that if a user wanted he/she could have the start screen always on in one of the monitors while the other(s) are the desktop etc. That would give them the same type of setup, you'd be looking at all the live tiles at a glance in that case.

[jakem1]

GP007, on 04 June 2012 - 11:36, said:

I think that Win8 could be the first Windows OS where service packs play a bigger role (not counting XP SP2 ofc). I'm sure they know they can't release it as is and then have it sit like that till Windows 9. I expect, or maybe hope, that SP1 a year or so later will bring with it a good chunk of updates/changes/fixes to the UI and so on.

I hope you're right because Microsoft will find it hard to keep up with the update cycle set by Apple and Google on the tablet side if they stick to their 3 year cycle,

[jakem1]

Neobond, on 04 June 2012 - 11:37, said:

I want to be able to place live tiles on my desktop though, I want them where I want them, not in some Start page. That would make it a little more productive.

I've seen others ask for this and I don't really understand it. The ability to use a live tile as an application icon that can be clicked on is just as important as the fact that it displays useful information. The only way to get to the desktop to click on icons is to minimise all windows but this would seriously break your workflow and you would then have to re-maximise any open applications one at a time.

Surely it's easier to have all this information and icons on a screen that can be accessed by hitting a single key on your keyboard? Or are you suggesting that you'd devote an area of one of your monitors to live tiles that can be clicked on without having to minimise other applications?

[Neobond]

jakem1, on 04 June 2012 - 11:42, said:

I've seen others ask for this and I don't really understand it. The ability to use a live tile as an application icon that can be clicked on is just as important as the fact that it displays useful information. The only way to get to the desktop to click on icons is to minimise all windows but this would seriously break your workflow and you would then have to re-maximise any open applications one at a time.

Surely it's easier to have all this information and icons on a screen that can be accessed by hitting a single key on your keyboard? Or are you suggesting that you'd devote an area of one of your monitors to live tiles that can be clicked on without having to minimise other applications?

Yes, I have two 23" screens and a space is set aside for some gadgets:



Edit: Why wouldn't it be more productive to make the actual desktop more useful by pinning live tiles on it, which could also be accessed with the winkey?

[jakem1]

Neobond, on 04 June 2012 - 11:45, said:

Yes, I have two 23" screens and a space is set aside for some gadgets:

SNAG-0004.png

I think you'd have to accept that that's a fairly niche thing to do and that the majority of users (even if they have multiple monitors which most don't) won't leave a space free to view a bit of their desktop. Most users tend to run applications full screen.

Neobond, on 04 June 2012 - 11:45, said:

Edit: Why wouldn't it be more productive to make the actual desktop more useful by pinning live tiles on it, which could also be accessed with the winkey?

As I said earlier, I think minimising running apps to get to the desktop would be far more disruptive to your workflow than simply having a fullscreen launcher appear on top of your running apps. Once you have a number of windows open it can be a real pain to have to minimise them all to get to the desktop because you then have to restore them one by one.

Besides, if you're minimising all your windows to get a clear view of the desktop, how are you any better off than if you'd just opened the Start screen?

EDIT: Thinking about it further, adding live tiles to the desktop would really break the purpose of the desktop. Although it's always served as an app launcher to a certain extent the desktop's main purpose is as a temporary location to store files. Unlike the Start menu it has always been available to save files to. Turning it into a Start menu replacement would confuse and break this functionality.

[GP007]

I think if you see live tiles on the "desktop" it'll be pinned to whatever they make the taskbar into going forward. Which would be a good thing to have imo. Right now I hate the fact I have to have my pinned sites like FB open in order to get the icon notification or w/e it's called. At least with Live tiles down there I'd get it without opening anything which is a plus.

[Jygoro]

Very interesting read to understand why Microsoft will drop Aero-glass

http://forums.thereg...uk/post/1430387

[MorganX]

jakem1, on 04 June 2012 - 11:58, said:

I think you'd have to accept that that's a fairly niche thing to do and that the majority of users (even if they have multiple monitors which most don't) won't leave a space free to view a bit of their desktop. Most users tend to run applications full screen.

Actually the number and size of his monitor(s) is irrelevant. MS won't allow live tiles on the desktop because 1) Currently Metro Apps don't run in the desktop environment and 2) Then they would be gadgets on the desktop and not live metro tiles on the start page. Remember, 90% of Metro app will be intended to be used across desktop PC, Tablet, and Phone. Preferably with as little modification as possible. At the least that is the case for the current Metro Applets. I have yet to see a full blown Metro Application tbh.

[MorganX]

Jygoro, on 05 June 2012 - 00:18, said:

Very interesting read to understand why Microsoft will drop Aero-glass

http://forums.thereg...uk/post/1430387

Reads like MS marshalling the troops for a pre-emptive defense of some questionable decisions. However, when you own all the toys, you can play whatever game you like.

>>or "based on Windows Phone 7", that couldn't be further from the truth.<<

This is contrary to Microsoft's own marketing materials. Clearly, there are internal corporate shenanigans going on. Regardless of how 8 turns out, it will be much more interesting to hear about that the internal KIN vs. Windows Phone 7 drama was.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Jygoro, on 05 June 2012 - 00:18, said:

Very interesting read to understand why Microsoft will drop Aero-glass

http://forums.thereg...uk/post/1430387

It's an interesting read but again that shows that arrogance of Microsoft's stance. For instance, as I have a 30" monitor I rarely use apps in fullscreen mode but instead side-snap with Aero, especially with web browsers. With other apps - like iTunes or Live Messenger - they're best at a particular size so I keep them at that size and navigate to them with the taskbar. In fact one of the best examples is Task Manager - how many people use that full screen? Being forced to do so with the Metro design philosophy is simply at odds with how most people like to use their computer.

Metro doesn't allow me to have a web browser on one half of the screen and Word on the other. Inevitably there will be some decent side-snapped Metro apps - News Republic is good in that format - but Metro apps simply don't work well with how I use my computer. Only those with a specific purpose - like Cocktail Flow - are a benefit to me. Microsoft is free to port Office to Metro but I'll be sticking with the desktop version. Metro shouldn't have been created as an alternative to the desktop with its own paradigm; it should have been an extension to the desktop or a replacement for it. At the moment it tries to take over but simply doesn't have the functionality required to pull it off.

PS - I think it's unlikely we'll see big changes coming in the service packs. However, it may be possible we'll see a Win98-style "Second Edition".

[grayscale]

^LOL

[moloko]

It looks ok for me. A bit plain but oh well. The icons much change and really stand out though. Or it will look to much like the online Outlook which I do not like at all

[+remixedcat]

johnporter29, on 03 June 2012 - 14:16, said:

What did you expect? EVERY Windows 8 thread becomes a flame war between those who love Windows 8 and those who hate it. I would post my views of Windows 8 now I've been using it full time for a couple of days but not going to because it will end up just been the same.

It's a real shame that a forum appears to be splitting into 2 camps, "I love WIndows 8" and "I hate Windows 8", the amount of crap regularly posted by people from both sides is completely unbelieveable!

This is the main reason when I was testing the earlier builds I kept low key... now that it's more finalized I am very mixed on the whole thing...


I don't see what all the extreme hate was for metro, however I don't see how people are so crazy about using it on a desktop PC. It's kinda neat for the first couple hours, however I think it was clearly meant to be loved on a tablet. That's my final conclusion at a more final stage in the OS's development.

I would love to test on a tablet and it would prolly be lots more fun.

I am on the middle about it. I'm also sure it would be great on an HTPC, however the media apps suck at this point and that's a huge dissapointment becuase I thought it was designed for that as well... that seems to be neglected in favor of people just using streaming services over 4G or wifi on a tablet and not a standard local or LAN media playback. I was hoping for some really nice HTPC media apps for metro that would make it easy to use from the couch that would be better then WMCE. I wonder if J-River has thought of a metro version....

The start screen metro app selection really does suck at this point and this is disappointing because they had the developer preview what...almost a year ago??? yah think they would have way more apps by now and even some that would be better then android because of the increased screen space and information density as a result...