Dot Matrix Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I'd get rid of it completely, no need for a hidden dock on the side. But maybe settings bar, tool bar. It's not really a dock. It's a hidden menu with some important links to it consolidated into one area. Now, if only Microsoft could take the Control Panel and do the same. But, I don't understant why some people are so against Microsoft's hidden menus in Windows 8. Historically, Windows has had hidden menus as far back as 3.1. Take a look at what happens when you right click on the desktop. That's a hidden menu that everyone knows like the back of your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hum Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Seriously???? If I use Linux then I lose compatibility with 99% of my apps. If i stay with Windows 7 then I lose all the improvements that Windows 8 has brought apart from Metro. Run Linspire then :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firey Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 But, I don't understant why some people are so against Microsoft's hidden menus in Windows 8. Historically, Windows has had hidden menus as far back as 3.1. Take a look at what happens when you right click on the desktop. That's a hidden menu that everyone knows like the back of your hand. It's a Context menu, it's different and looks way cleaner. However, technically setting the taskbar to auto-hide is the same effect. I think the name is silly, and I find it to look very out of place and well.. ugly. They remove the start button and have to task things it held spread them out all over for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Active. Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Microsoft isn't forcing anything on anyone. If you don't want fullscreen apps then stick to the desktop. Windows 8 gives users plenty of choice so they can decide what works best for them.Also, your constant references to Win RT being "the latest and greatest" are meaningless. Users couldn't care less what APIs are used to develop an application and, secondly, Win RT is brand new, quite immature and not capable of anything that .NET or native code aren't capable of. Nobody is yearning for a Win RT-based app just because it was written in Win RT. Nobody. Fair enough. Microsoft does give it prominent status though, considering all the apps MS chose to include for calendaring, Mail, messaging, PDF reading etc. are written in WinRT. Default choices matter. And the store only sells apps written in WinRT. And, correct me if I'm wrong, the systemwide search feature can only be integrated with apps that are written in WinRT. Similarly, the system-wide app-specific settings reachable via the 'charms' bar (that you can't get rid of) only work for WinRT apps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir Angel Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 It seems on here that unless you swallow everything Microsoft does and just keep proclaiming that they're the awesomest company ever you get accused of being a troll. I unfortunately haven't played around enough with Win8 to know the answer to the OP's question but it's clearly a usability issue that matters to him, so why don't you either help the OP or GTFO of his thread. HoochieMamma and MFH 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Matrix Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 They remove the start button and have to task things it held spread them out all over for the sake of it. Not really, the settings Charm now holds most, if not all the old start menu customization functions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnporter29 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 you can always upgrade to xp for speed :rofl: Windows 7 and 8 are already much faster then XP :) I'm on Win 8 RP now full time and loving the speed and snappiness of it. To the OP: Unfortunately you can't disable the Charms Bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Johnny Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 It seems on here that unless you swallow everything Microsoft does and just keep proclaiming that they're the awesomest company ever you get accused of being a troll. I unfortunately haven't played around enough with Win8 to know the answer to the OP's question but it's clearly a usability issue that matters to him, so why don't you either help the OP or GTFO of his thread. Having a bar he doesn't want to use isn't usability issue (usability tending to be relating to ease of use) - he's objecting because he just doesn't want it. The OP has clearly stated that he doesn't want to learn a new interaction paradigm, but in regards to the options offered by the charms bar (for WinRT applications at least) there's no other choice. It's a very easy paradigm to understand though if people want to give it all a chance, though some people don't see a reason to give it a chance. But no, there's no way to remove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Active. Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 It's a very easy paradigm to understand though if people want to give it all a chance, though some people don't see a reason to give it a chance.But no, there's no way to remove it. Conceptually, I think the consistent way of reaching an app's settings menu (and having it presented in the same way) as well as having apps' search feature plugged into the systemwide search that is easily called up, is absolutely fantastic. Similarly, the context-sensitive sharing feature is something sorely missing from iOS for example. And how often do you really accidentally put your mouse cursor in the corner and then move it up- or downwards along the edge? MS could of course offer an option do disable the charms bar, since the start button is redundant, the search feature can be alternatively brought up via the lower left corner, and the sharing/devices/settings button is not strictly needed if you don't use WinRT apps. It's probably not in their strategic interest though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickkins Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 Having a bar he doesn't want to use isn't usability issue (usability tending to be relating to ease of use) - he's objecting because he just doesn't want it. The OP has clearly stated that he doesn't want to learn a new interaction paradigm, but in regards to the options offered by the charms bar (for WinRT applications at least) there's no other choice. It's a very easy paradigm to understand though if people want to give it all a chance, though some people don't see a reason to give it a chance. But no, there's no way to remove it. "interaction paradigm"..... seriously...?? Good grief. Surely you meant "re-invention of the wheel for no real purpose", right..?? Guess I'll have to wait for a third party fix. Btw, look up the word continuity.... it's all the grown ups are really asking for. One wouldn't think it was too bloody much to ask for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir Angel Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Having a bar he doesn't want to use isn't usability issue (usability tending to be relating to ease of use) - he's objecting because he just doesn't want it. The OP has clearly stated that he doesn't want to learn a new interaction paradigm, but in regards to the options offered by the charms bar (for WinRT applications at least) there's no other choice. It's a very easy paradigm to understand though if people want to give it all a chance, though some people don't see a reason to give it a chance. But no, there's no way to remove it. I never said it was hard to understand, that doesn't mean the poster has to just accept it's presence and like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Johnny Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 "interaction paradigm"..... seriously...?? Good grief. Surely you meant "re-invention of the wheel for no real purpose", right..?? Guess I'll have to wait for a third party fix. The purpose was to provide uniform and integrated features (and yes, some form of continuity going forward) for WinRT applications (like sharing, printing, searching, settings, etc). - all from the same menu regardless of application or where you are in the OS - designed to try and make discoverability and usability easier once people have been told how to use it. It's not greatly useful if you're a desktop only person, but hey ho. Obviously there's other ways they could have implemented it, but there's not much that can be done about that now :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Som Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I'd get rid of it completely, no need for a hidden dock on the side. But maybe settings bar, tool bar. said it there, dock is a better name, side dock even ha :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir Angel Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 The purpose was to provide uniform and integrated features (and yes, some form of continuity going forward) for WinRT applications (like sharing, printing, searching, settings, etc). - all from the same menu regardless of application or where you are in the OS - designed to try and make discoverability and usability easier once people have been told how to use it. It's not greatly useful if you're a desktop only person, but hey ho. Obviously there's other ways they could have implemented it, but there's not much that can be done about that now :p Windows 7 provides uniform and integrated features as well. And they managed to do that without forcing everyone to use a bastardised tablet UI And besides, do you think "continuity" is the right way to define a change as being good? Desktop computers, laptops, and tablets are all made for different purposes. Trying to force the same design paradigm across devices with differing purposes isn't "continuity" it's just plain stupid. Order_66 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakem1 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Fair enough. Microsoft does give it prominent status though, considering all the apps MS chose to include for calendaring, Mail, messaging, PDF reading etc. are written in WinRT. Default choices matter. And the store only sells apps written in WinRT. And, correct me if I'm wrong, the systemwide search feature can only be integrated with apps that are written in WinRT. Similarly, the system-wide app-specific settings reachable via the 'charms' bar (that you can't get rid of) only work for WinRT apps. Yeah, the features you mention are restricted to the Metro environment. So what? You don't want to work in the Metro environment so why would you want to buy apps for it or take advantage of the way its apps interact with one another. In one breath you're saying that you don't want the Metro environment and in the next you're saying that you do. No offence, but based on your comment history I think you're just looking for excuses to complain. You complain about restrictions in the Express edition of Visual Studio even though you don't use Visual Studio for development. You complain about limitations in the Metro environment even though you don't want/need to use it. Now your complaining about how end users will feel ripped off that they can't use apps developed with APIs they don't care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakem1 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Windows 7 provides uniform and integrated features as well. And they managed to do that without forcing everyone to use a bastardised tablet UI You're not forced to use it at all. If you want to spend all your time working on the desktop then there's no need to use the Charms bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohitster Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Good luck using your computer without it. You can't even shut down without the charm bar; took me forever to find that button. It's a sad day when you have to go online to find out how to shut down Windows. LOL....you could have just pressed that old friend of yours you know - Alt + F4 on the desktop! :D :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir Angel Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 You're not forced to use it at all. If you want to spend all your time working on the desktop then there's no need to use the Charms bar. So it's just my imagination that WinRT is the first thing you're presented with when you start your computer up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George P Global Moderator Posted June 2, 2012 Global Moderator Share Posted June 2, 2012 So it's just my imagination that WinRT is the first thing you're presented with when you start your computer up? The first thing you see is the start screen so you can, as the name says, start your apps. They don't have to be WinRT apps at all, or you can just go to the desktop and start them from the taskbar if their pinned there. The fact the start screen comes up as the first option makes sense, when you start the PC you're not just going to look at the desktop wallpaper all day, you want to start apps. This takes you right to the place to do that from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Matrix Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Windows 7 provides uniform and integrated features as well. And they managed to do that without forcing everyone to use a bastardised tablet UI Not really. Depending on the app, I have to go to File > Settings, Edit > Settings, Tools > Settings, or click on a "?" icon some where on the UI. That's not uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir Angel Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 The first thing you see is the start screen so you can, as the name says, start your apps. They don't have to be WinRT apps at all, or you can just go to the desktop and start them from the taskbar if their pinned there. The fact the start screen comes up as the first option makes sense, when you start the PC you're not just going to look at the desktop wallpaper all day, you want to start apps. This takes you right to the place to do that from. Strange, I don't have the start screen on Windows 7 and I'm able to launch applications without launching my start menu. Have you forgotten the purpose of the desktop and superbar? Astrum 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo1911 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Charms bar is here to stay and can be compared to herpes. It's well hidden but cannot be got rid off! Flame suit on! :D Depicus 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George P Global Moderator Posted June 2, 2012 Global Moderator Share Posted June 2, 2012 Strange, I don't have the start screen on Windows 7 and I'm able to launch applications without launching my start menu. Have you forgotten the purpose of the desktop and superbar? I'm well aware of them and use them every day, you're going in circles here. Not everyone pins everything to the taskbar, and regardless the end result is the same thing, you start an app right after it comes up. It's also the same experience between device types which is also the key here. Having one device default to one UI and another type to the other doesn't help things in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir Angel Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I'm well aware of them and use them every day, you're going in circles here. Not everyone pins everything to the taskbar, and regardless the end result is the same thing, you start an app right after it comes up. It's also the same experience between device types which is also the key here. Having one device default to one UI and another type to the other doesn't help things in the end. Given the amount of people that are ****ed off about the changes I'd disagree on that front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George P Global Moderator Posted June 2, 2012 Global Moderator Share Posted June 2, 2012 Given the amount of people that are ****ed off about the changes I'd disagree on that front. The amount of people on here you mean, let's not try and speak for every single person who'll use a PC out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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