59 replies to this topic

[moeburn]

<<< My System Summary >>>

• OS: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit
  
• Mainboard : Acer FRS780M
  
• Chipset : AMD 780
  
• CPU : Athlon II X4 620 2.6Ghz
  
• RAM : 4096MB DDR3
  
• GPU : ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB GDDR5
  
• Hard Disk : Western Digital 500GB WD5000
  
• Display: BenQ V2200Eco 22" LCD w/LED backlight
  
• Other: 4GB USB flash drive dedicated to Windows ReadyBoost page file
  
• Other: CFA633 LCD display unit mounted in DVD drive bay

So at the moment, my system is a pretty decent budget gaming system, except for the RAM. It seems that most people these days have at least 8GB or more. How exactly does adding RAM affect gaming performance?

I was under the impression that if you didn't have enough RAM at some point in the game, then the game would start deferring to the page file, which would make the game's framerate suddenly drop from its normal average to 5fps or less. The game would suddenly start stuttering while it tries to run from the hard drive instead of the RAM. I thought that if you add RAM to your system, all you are doing is preventing this sudden stuttering from happening. And if it doesn't happen in the first place, then adding more RAM isn't going to make a difference, if you already have enough ram that the entire game is loaded and it never uses the page file. Or so I thought.

But I am being told that increasing your RAM is the cheapest, fastest way to improve your average framerate, not just to prevent these occasional stuttering issues. Is this true?

I ask because I am trying to play Arma 2 at a decent framerate (don't worry I'm not playing that crappy DayZ mod that everyone is creaming their pants about). I understand that without prior knowledge of how the game's engine works, this might be difficult to answer, but I am only using it as an example that seems to happen in most games. The game runs fine when I play very small, self-made missions, with very few units and objects. I can play the game at absolute maximum graphics settings and still get an average fps of 50, so I am confident that my GPU is more than enough to play this game. But if I try to play the campaign, or missions with 100 units or more, the game slows to about 10 fps, which I can improve to about 24 fps by lowering the graphics settings. Even if I am not looking at the units (IE they are not being rendered), so I am still pretty sure this isn't a GPU issue.

Do you think that this is the kind of game issue that could be improved by adding more RAM, or is upgrading the CPU really the only way to help the situation (which is what I'm expecting, but I can't afford a new CPU)? I mean, I already have the page file on a 4GB USB flash drive (thats what ReadyBoost does, right?), so I'm not sure if the RAM is the issue here...

Thank you for taking the time to read my long post, and thank you in advance for any replies/suggestions you might have! - moeburn

[King Mustard]

moeburn, on 14 July 2012 - 22:51, said:

<snip>

In general, adding more RAM won't increase the framerate (that's affected mostly by the CPU/GPU) but it will stop the stuttering caused by not having enough system RAM (as the system will use the page file which, since it is RAM, is slower).

In your specific game case, I believe it's the CPU holding you back and not the amount of RAM.

[simplezz]

There isn't a game available on Windows that uses more than 4 gig of ram (that I know of) unless it's a bug. In fact, on Windows most games are still 32 bit anyway, which means they can't physically address even 4 gig.

The timings and number of channels are more important than quantity. I only have 4 gig, and I've never once run out of space (I turn off the swap).

[King Mustard]

simplezz, on 14 July 2012 - 23:03, said:

There isn't a game available on Windows that uses more than 4 gig of ram (that I know of) unless it's a bug. In fact, on Windows most games are still 32 bit anyway, which means they can't physically address even 4 gig.

The timings and number of channels are more important than quantity. I only have 4 gig, and I've never once run out of space (I turn off the swap).

That is so wrong.

In the case of 4 GB/8 GB for current gamers, 8 GB of slower RAM is much more important than 4 GB of faster RAM.

Also, many modern PC games have 64-bit executables.

[trag3dy]

King Mustard, on 14 July 2012 - 23:06, said:

That is so wrong.

In the case of 4 GB/8 GB for current gamers, 8 GB of slower RAM is much more important than 4 GB of faster RAM.

Also, many modern PC games have 64-bit executables.

Name a game that needs more than 4gb of ram?

If we're talking Crysis 1/2 or bf3 those games are just fine with 4gb of ram. However they *do* need more than 1.5gb of vram to run smoothly at max graphic settings. More specifically, they need that much vram to run with max textures. Which is likely the problem the OP is running into, not enough vram.

[ThaCrip]

4GB of RAM is fine for most people and most general uses. but i would recommend 8GB if possible since DDR3 RAM is dirt cheap (i got mine for less than $40 in early May (G.Skill 1333mhz 2x 4GB (8GB total)) nowadays and with 8GB your basically future proofed to as anyone with 8GB of RAM will be plenty into the foreseeable future as it gives you a nice buffer so if programs start burning more RAM you will still be OK. but going over 8GB of RAM is pretty much a waste of money if you ask me unless you got some major RAM hog apps as even when i am hitting my RAM pretty good i still don't exceed 3-3.5GB on the high side but i suspect most of the time i am between 2-3GB.

p.s. but as usual.... you need a 64bit OS to use more than 4GB of RAM. even with 4GB on your system i would say it's a good idea to have a 64bit OS as then you can use all of the RAM where as if your on 32bit odds are you won't be using it all since from what i read 32bit OS can only address 4GB of RAM TOTAL and that's counting video card ram etc. so if you got a 512MB or 1GB video card (on a 4GB of RAM system) your basically not using that much of your system RAM as it will only be able to use 3-3.5GB of your system ram MAX, possibly less. but it appears you got a 64bit OS so you can pretty much ignore this part.

[thatguyandrew1992]

Adding more ram might help. If you're like me and have more programs in the background then you're game may not have enough. If you have xfire, teamspeak, steam, and a video playing then you might need more than 4gb. I don't know about your specific situation though.

You could try turning off everything else you can. Anti virus, firewall...everything. See what happens then.

How much memory do you use when the computer first starts up, and then about how much does it use right before you start a game? (Starting a game after normal, everyday use)

[King Mustard]

thatguyandrew1992, on 14 July 2012 - 23:29, said:

Adding more ram might help. If you're like me and have more programs in the background then you're game may not have enough. If you have xfire, teamspeak, steam, and a video playing then you might need more than 4gb. I don't know about your specific situation though.

You could try turning off everything else you can. Anti virus, firewall...everything. See what happens then.

How much memory do you use when the computer first starts up, and then about how much does it use right before you start a game? (Starting a game after normal, everyday use)

That is correct.

4 GB is enough for 80% of modern games to not stutter if you hardly have any programs running in the background.

However, I suggest 8 GB. It's cheap and it means you won't have to consider closing the majority of your background programs in order to stop many modern games stuttering (especially at higher detail levels).

[Detection]

trag3dy, on 14 July 2012 - 23:09, said:

Name a game that needs more than 4gb of ram?

If we're talking Crysis 1/2 or bf3 those games are just fine with 4gb of ram. However they *do* need more than 1.5gb of vram to run smoothly at max graphic settings. More specifically, they need that much vram to run with max textures. Which is likely the problem the OP is running into, not enough vram.

On a 4GB system, turn off your pagefile and play crysis cranked to max @ 1080p

You`ll soon see a BSOD

[trag3dy]

Detection, on 14 July 2012 - 23:37, said:

On a 4GB system, turn off your pagefile and play crysis cranked to max @ 1080p

You`ll soon see a BSOD

If you say so.

[dr_crabman]

trag3dy, on 14 July 2012 - 23:09, said:

If we're talking Crysis 1/2 or bf3 those games are just fine with 4gb of ram.

Define 'fine'. BF3 can use between 6 to 8GB if available and it helps load times and overall smoothness when jumping from server to server. If one has only 4gb minus what the OS uses there will be swapping. A lot of it.

But I'm not sure RAM is the only problem the op has. ARMAII is a very taxing game. It needs a fast CPU, lots of RAM. modern graphics card and so on. You could start the windows task manager and watch how much RAM the game uses, same for the processor. If one of those are often at 100% you have your bottleneck.

[trag3dy]

dr_crabman, on 14 July 2012 - 23:45, said:

Define 'fine'. BF3 can use between 6 to 8GB if available and it helps load times and overall smoothness when jumping from server to server. If one has only 4gb minus what the OS uses there will be swapping. A lot of it.

I define fine as playable above 40 fps. But like I said, your vram plays a large part in that, too.

[Javik]

If you have extra memory, you can fit more data: EG physics data, textures ETC into memory, and with more memory you have less chance of other stuff having to be swapped out whilst you're gaming, it also means you should get less disk thrashing as things are loaded and unloaded from memory. All of which adds up to smoother running and less stuttering.

[dr_crabman]

trag3dy, on 14 July 2012 - 23:59, said:

I define fine as playable above 40 fps. But like I said, your vram plays a large part in that, too.

But it's easier to bring down VRAM consumption by tuning the settings while large maps with 64 players will always tax the RAM. And seeing how cheap 4GB DDR3 are right now there really is no reason to live with longer load times and occasional stuttering. BF3 definitely takes noticeable advantage of free memory. Even 6GB is cutting it close imo, a friend upgraded from that to 24GB (yeah, that's excessive) and his experience improved considerably.

[King Mustard]

trag3dy, on 14 July 2012 - 23:39, said:

If you say so.

Argh, I hate it when people say that. It's such a snarky thing to say.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about regarding this topic and we are all (at least, from what I can see) disagreeing with you so unless you have facts to give, please leave the topic.