Myth - Modern UI apps are for touch only

[vcfan]

This is the biggest misconception I've been seeing. Most people are basing their opinion on the very few apps that exist preloaded or in the windows store. It is a flawed opinion once you get the whole picture.

I just loaded up visual studio,and created some mock user interfaces of popular desktop applications, like photoshop, digital audio workstations, video editor, and web browser.

There is absolutely nothing in the user interface,i found, that would limit apps to touch only. The controls seem designed not only to include keyboard and mouse, but they are touch friendly too. They can all co exist you know,and Modern UI shows that. These are not touch only, go try it yourself and tell me how they are touch only.

Most people bitch about certain limited features, like full file access, but these are all mostly security related,and believe it or not, even if winrt was not created, win32 would have eventually stripped these privelages away,in the name of security.

Great you are knowledgable enough to not allow malware to infect your system, but Microsoft has a responsibility to keep its users safe. If you have a better solution, go tell Microsoft, if not deal with it.

[Vice]

Fact: Metro was designed for touch, it just inherited the operating systems mouse and keyboard support as a byproduct of its existence atop a desktop operating system. Just like how the Media Centre software was designed for IR Remote Controls but it too worked with Mice and Keyboards. It just wasn't as good to use it that way.

So yeah you're right in that Metro isn't just for Touch, but that is what it was optimized for and that is where it works best.

[FiB3R]

Do your mock-ups have all the power, features, options and fine grained control of their desktop counterparts?

Na, didn't think so. Therefore, what's the ****ing point?

It's not that they are touch only, it's that they are pointless on the desktop, unless you want to use dumbed down mobile apps, that constrain you in multiple ways.

Also, pics or gtfo. :)

[vcfan]

Do your mock-ups have all the power, features, options and fine grained control of their desktop counterparts?

Na, didn't think so. Therefore, what's the ****ing point?

It's not that they are touch only, it's that they are pointless on the desktop, unless you want to use dumbed down mobile apps, that constrain you in multiple ways.

Also, pics or gtfo. :)

im not building a full blown photoshop app just so I can prove my point. All the people saying the apps are designed for touch only have no proof. Go load up visual studio and read MSDN and come back and tell me what features are missing that prevent the apps from being full featured apps. go look at the controls,and tell me which ones prevent a photoshop for example from being created. Look at the API. As far as im concerned, this is just empty talk. I'm a developer and Im not seeing these restrictions that non developers seem to think there is. Just because its not ugly doesn't mean it cant be powerful.

[FiB3R]

Nothing prevents it man, they are just targeted at tablets. Isn't that super obvious?

[.Neo]

This is the biggest misconception I've been seeing.

The biggest misconception is you actually seem to think a lot of people claim Metro apps are for touch only. Many users here are merely saying Metro has been primarily designed for touch input. Huge difference.

[redfish]

https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1091165-the-long-road-to-the-start-screen/

[vcfan]

The biggest misconception here is that you think a lot of people claim Metro apps are for touch only. Many people here are merely saying Metro has been primarily designed for touch input. Huge difference.

ok,if that is what they are claiming,how so? lets see the points

[.Neo]

ok,if that is what they are claiming,how so? lets see the points

There are I don't know how many threads already where people wrote down their thoughts in great detail regarding the matter. Don't be lazy, do a search and read them for yourself.

[TheLegendOfMart]

No one is saying that Metro/Modern is ONLY designed for touch, we are saying that it was designed PRIMARILY as a touch interface with other forms of control as an afterthought.

Modern is clearly aimed at taking on the iPad crowd which is a touch input device.

[Vice]

ok,if that is what they are claiming,how so? lets see the points

How about everything in it is huge? Designed for fingers, ya know things that are larger than a curser.

Or how about that a lot of things like buttons are hidden in slide out menus that only appear when you perform gestures. Mice have buttons to click that is why buttons on the screen make sense for a curser that you manuver in to place and then press a button on the mouse to activate an event. The slide out menus in Metro are obviously designed for fingers that start on the border of a touch display and then roll on to the display itself to activate and reveal menus.

Also there is the fact that mice have scroll wheels that go up and down but metro scrolls left and right, again this is suited to touch screens where you would easily swipe left and right but with a mouse it doesn't make as much sense.

Then maybe the biggest indicator is that everything is full screen. Even when you snap two apps side by side they are combined filling every pixel of the screen. You can't drag an app in to a window. Why is this an indicator? tablets have small screens and you need to utilize all that space to make the applications anyway useful.

Is this enough for you or do I need to go on? As I could mention the fact Metro only works on a single display (Which tablets have, desktops can have more than one display) - Again I'm not claiming you can't use Metro with a Keyboard and Mouse, I'm merely saying it was designed primarily for a touch screen.

[.Neo]

Also there is the fact that mice have scroll wheels that go up and down but metro scrolls left and right, again this is suited to touch screens where you would easily swipe left and right but with a mouse it doesn't make as much sense.

Mice with scroll wheels are so 2008? :p

[Aethec]

The fact is, work on "Metro" started as a desktop interface in Media Center, which is definitely not touch-based. The first Zune didn't have a touch screen either.

It just so happened that it's great for touch. People who claim that Metro is only built for touch and then adapted for PCs don't know what they're talking about, period.

[vcfan]

How about everything in it is huge? Designed for fingers, ya know things that are larger than a curser.

Wrong. Developers can choose the size of their controls. Big or small,depending on the function. The start screen tiles can be big or small,again depending on what kind of information they want to contain. I can make tiny desktop app sized controls that will only work with the mouse. Go load up visual studio and try it yourself. Are you even a developer?

Or how about that a lot of things like buttons are hidden in slide out menus that only appear when you perform gestures. Mice have buttons to click that is why buttons on the screen make sense for a curser that you manuver in to place and then press a button on the mouse to activate an event. The slide out menus in Metro 8 are obviously designed for fingers that start on the border of a touch display and then roll on to the display itself to activate and reveal menus.

I don't understand,give me an example

Also there is the fact that mice have scroll wheels that go up and down but metro scrolls left and right, again this is suited to touch screens where you would easily swipe left and right but with a mouse it doesn't make as much sense.

desktop apps always had the ability to scroll horizontally. touch apps scroll vertical too. whats your point?

Then maybe the biggest indicator is that everything is full screen. Even when you snap two apps side by side they are combined filling every pixel of the screen. You can't drag an app in to a window. Why is this an indicator? tablets have small screens and you need to utilize all that space to make the applications anyway useful.

so because theres no title bar,or launch bar, its a tablet app? not even worth defending

Is this enough for you or do I need to go on? As I could mention the fact Metro only works on a single display (Which tablets have, desktops can have more than one display) - Again I'm not claiming you can't use Metro with a Keyboard and Mouse, I'm merely saying it was designed primarily for a touch screen.

that has nothing to do with it being made for touch only. what prevent Microsoft from implementing modern ui on both monitors? nothing,it just wasn't a priority that was high enough.

please go on,ive heard nothing yet to support the claim it was primarily designed for touch. Modern UI is an evolution of previous Microsoft technologies that had nothing to do with being designed primarily for touch. WPF for example was evolved to modern.

[Vice]

The fact is, work on "Metro" started as a desktop interface in Media Center, which is definitely not touch-based. The first Zune didn't have a touch screen either.

It just so happened that it's great for touch. People who claim that Metro is only built for touch and then adapted for PCs don't know what they're talking about, period.

I started off as a sperm built for swimming, yet I'm not an olympic swimmer.

Things change. Just because it shares some of the same UI queues as Media Centre and the font usage of the original Zune UI doesn't mean it isn't designed for touch. Would you use a Mouse and Keyboard on Windows Phone? Because that is pretty much what Metro is a blown up Windows Phone UI.

Blah blah blah blah

You ask us to debate with you and you won't accept any of our points because you're too far gone down this rabbit hole. There is no point continuing.

I'm gone now.

[.Neo]

so because theres no title bar,or launch bar, its a tablet app? not even worth defending

That's not what he wrote. Read it again.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

The fact is, work on "Metro" started as a desktop interface in Media Center, which is definitely not touch-based. The first Zune didn't have a touch screen either.

It just so happened that it's great for touch. People who claim that Metro is only built for touch and then adapted for PCs don't know what they're talking about, period.

Media Center was primarily meant to be navigated with the, wait for for it, Media Center Remote. The larger icons, considering you typically sit further away from your TV, are easier to see/navigate than a bunch of smaller icons, especially with its very specific role (watching TV, recording TV, music, etc).

vcfan - You can not argue the FACT that Metro was primarily built for the utilization of touch based devices. You just can't.

[trag3dy]

Another "you're doing it wrong" thread... I feel like we need about 3 of these a day.

[Aethec]

http://forums.theregister.co.uk/post/1430387

Nothing more to say.

[.Neo]

vcfan - You can not argue the FACT that Metro was primarily built for the utilization of touch based devices. You just can't.

It would be the same as claiming the desktop UI wasn't primarily build for keyboard and mouse/trackpad.

[McKay]

The most common myth I have to inform people isnt true is that the desktop is completely gone, and they HAVE to use the Startscreen 100%. And that you can only install apps from the app store. Nowhere else.

[BajiRav]

Wrong. Developers can choose the size of their controls. Big or small,depending on the function. The start screen tiles can be big or small,again depending on what kind of information they want to contain. I can make tiny desktop app sized controls that will only work with the mouse. Go load up visual studio and try it yourself. Are you even a developer?

Sure you can design really small controls but then your app won't make it through certification. I think apps should work with all types of inputs is a requirement (somebody who has actually looked through it should support or correct me).

[Active.]

Metro style apps are designed to be touch first.

Enough said.

[FiB3R]

Enough said.

Yep, right here... http://msdn.microsof...s/hh464920.aspx

Designed for touch

Metro style apps are designed to be touch first. They leverage the hands and fingers for what they are great at, with comfort and ergonomics in mind.

• Embrace the Windows 8 Touch Language and use the prescribed gesture set to let people naturally and consistently manipulate content. See Touch interaction design for more info.
  
• Let content directly follow your fingers. Think beyond tap and use sliding interactions, such as Semantic Zoom, to let people quickly and effortlessly navigate and interact with content.
  
• Provide immediate visual feedback on touch so people can confidently know if they have hit the intended target. Keep interactions reversible, and commit only when people let go to give room for errors and encourage explorations.
  
• Do not build separate touch and mouse interactions.
  
• For accessibility, ensure that all interactive elements are accessible programmatically. To learn more, see Making touch events accessible and Verify main app scenarios by using Narrator.
  

Built-in controls

Leverage the built-in controls to get fluid, beautiful, consistent animations and touch-optimized behaviors baked in. To name a few examples:

• Selection through the swipe gesture (cross-slide) is built into the ListView control. It can be extended with Semantic Zoom to let people quickly and fluidly navigate within a long list. See the guidelines on the ListView control.
  
• The FlipView control lets users drag to move between items, and has transition animations built-in.
  
• The button, toggle, checkbox, radio button, rating, and slider controls all provide visual feedback on touch down, commit only on touch up, and allow users to reverse their action by dragging away to cancel. See the guidelines on button, toggle, checkbox, radio button, date and time pickers, rating, and slider controls.
  

Who is this mdc fellow? By his own admission, he didn't actually work on metro/modern

[Stoyan Dimitrov]

I really like Metro Modern UI, and I'm not using touchscreen device. It's just new and people are not getting used to it. After some time everyone will start to like it. That's my opinion :)