Windows 8 Is a Desktop Disaster


Recommended Posts

I put windows 8 RTM on a system for my dad last night, he use to be a tech person in the 80's and early 90's but hasn't done anything realy since... he is so confused, the tutorial just left him more confused... questions like why are there no visual markers of where you can do things at come up... which is true, how do you know you can do something without knowing where you can do it at? the start button/orb is gone, ok so what we still have a start screen, we could of had something there still to show hey this area goes to that... or the side charms, how about something that shows this will pull those up, and the thing that got him the most is when you are in a app how do you close it? he didn't understand the grab the top and drag it thing, as "that doesn't make sense, there is nothing saying I can do that, how am I supose to figure that out?" is the response I got...

oh and don't get him started on how to shut the system down... I think non-tech people found it just to easy to click shutdown, instead of logging out going past the clock screen to get to the login screen to click on shutdown form there or going to the side charm bar and going into another page on that then shut down from there

oh and he just got ****ed when the huge windows update bar showed up across the screen while he was looking around the desktop... that is just an intrusive design by default...

I just installed Start8 by Stardock. Essentially the app reverse the process. I now how a normal operating system with the perk of looking at the tiles when I want. I highly recommend it and it is going for $4.99 if you buy it now.

yap, its great, only way to make 8 usable.

I put windows 8 RTM on a system for my dad last night, he use to be a tech person in the 80's and early 90's but hasn't done anything realy since... he is so confused, the tutorial just left him more confused... questions like why are there no visual markers of where you can do things at come up... which is true, how do you know you can do something without knowing where you can do it at? the start button/orb is gone, ok so what we still have a start screen, we could of had something there still to show hey this area goes to that... or the side charms, how about something that shows this will pull those up, and the thing that got him the most is when you are in a app how do you close it? he didn't understand the grab the top and drag it thing, as "that doesn't make sense, there is nothing saying I can do that, how am I supose to figure that out?" is the response I got...

oh and don't get him started on how to shut the system down... I think non-tech people found it just to easy to click shutdown, instead of logging out going past the clock screen to get to the login screen to click on shutdown form there or going to the side charm bar and going into another page on that then shut down from there

oh and he just got ****ed when the huge windows update bar showed up across the screen while he was looking around the desktop... that is just an intrusive design by default...

yap, windows 8 designer should be fired

yap, its great, only way to make 8 usable.

yap, windows 8 designer should be fired

While I agree with you in a lot of things you are saying, I must tell you that this is the future of Windows and we all have to get used to it whether we like it or not, unless of course you decide to jump ship to OSX or Linux.

If the new interface bothers you and your dad, then do like the rest of us who hate the new UI and get Start8 from Stardock. It will bring back the Start Menu and automatically log you on the classic desktop you are so used to using and all for a mere $4.99.

Trust me, it works great.

My Windows 8 Desktop with Start8

abudQZj0.jpg

While I agree with you in a lot of things you are saying, I must tell you that this is the future of Windows and we all have to get used to it whether we like it or not, unless of course you decide to jump ship to OSX or Linux.

If the new interface bothers you and your dad, then do like the rest of us who hate the new UI and get Start8 from Stardock. It will bring back the Start Menu and automatically log you on the classic desktop you are so used to using and all for a mere $4.99.

Trust me, it works great.

My Windows 8 Desktop with Start8

putting a start menu back doesn't fix what is annoyances like taking up 1/3 your total screen to show a windows update banner... or not knowing where there is an interactive location at... my dad had no problem with using the start screen, it was all the hidden stuff that they have no visual ques for that got him pretty annoyed fast

putting a start menu back doesn't fix what is annoyances like taking up 1/3 your total screen to show a windows update banner... or not knowing where there is an interactive location at... my dad had no problem with using the start screen, it was all the hidden stuff that they have no visual ques for that got him pretty annoyed fast

I know exactly how he feels dude...Believe me. I am trying very hard to get used to it but I still have my Windows 7 Pro Acronis Image on my backup HD just in case I wanna go back to it.

putting a start menu back doesn't fix what is annoyances like taking up 1/3 your total screen to show a windows update banner... or not knowing where there is an interactive location at... my dad had no problem with using the start screen, it was all the hidden stuff that they have no visual ques for that got him pretty annoyed fast

for the updates, you can always put "update" on the start8 search part and it will bring the windows update window, that's one thing that I missed of the start screen.

for the updates, you can always put "update" on the start8 search part and it will bring the windows update window, that's one thing that I missed of the start screen.

I'm not talking about getting to updates, I am talking about Windows filling your whole screen with a banner saying there are updates available.... when it finds them it littearly draws the whole screen dimmed then puts a banner across the screen saying "Updates available download now?" in a big banner box that just pops up outa no where

I can't find a pic of the you have updates banner but here is one I found of it wanting restarted after the updates install... this even pops up on the desktop, no more bubble non-intrusive updates messages....

2011-11-16-image-2.jpg

I personally love this quote

Once it?s time for a monthly restart, Windows 8 will notify you at the login screen rather than invade your space with bothersome pop-up notifications inside of Windows.

not how its working for me, it just pops up in the middle of doing anything which is more invasive then a pop-up balloon that doesn't take z-order priority and prevent you from doing anything until you take care of it's question

not how its working for me, it just pops up in the middle of doing anything which is more invasive then a pop-up balloon that doesn't take z-order priority and prevent you from doing anything until you take care of it's question

This. I was copying 200GB to an external drive and the reboot thing popped up. I had 4 mins before it would auto-reboot. I'm like "yeah whatever". Well, when it wants to reboot, it will.

This. I was copying 200GB to an external drive and the reboot thing popped up. I had 4 mins before it would auto-reboot. I'm like "yeah whatever". Well, when it wants to reboot, it will.

I'm starting to notice more of these annoying banner pop-ups for other things also... looks like windows update isn't the only one

Lol people are spending money to get their beloved Start menu back? *facepalm*

Modern UI isn't THAT bad. It's called learning something new, but most of the detractors act like 5 years olds and go "WELL I DON'T WANNA, HMPH!".

Ahh my old friend the "it's newer so it must be better" mantra. It's my call to make usability decisions not yours ;) when I consider a change to be worth adapting to (like the superbar) I will adapt to it.

  • Like 2

for the updates, you can always put "update" on the start8 search part and it will bring the windows update window, that's one thing that I missed of the start screen.

I'm not using start 8, I just pinned the control panel icon to the classic taskbar, and its jump list includes windows update (and some other useful items)

I slightly prefer the classic start menu to the metro screen, although I'm not sure if I like it enough to pay 5 dollars, I may give start8 a try though :D. After pinning my most used stuff to the taskbar I have no huge issues.

I'm not talking about getting to updates, I am talking about Windows filling your whole screen with a banner saying there are updates available.... when it finds them it littearly draws the whole screen dimmed then puts a banner across the screen saying "Updates available download now?" in a big banner box that just pops up outa no where

I can't find a pic of the you have updates banner but here is one I found of it wanting restarted after the updates install... this even pops up on the desktop, no more bubble non-intrusive updates messages....

2011-11-16-image-2.jpg

I personally love this quote

not how its working for me, it just pops up in the middle of doing anything which is more invasive then a pop-up balloon that doesn't take z-order priority and prevent you from doing anything until you take care of it's question

Yeah thats a pretty bad overlook, however one of the first thing I configure when I install any windows version, is setting it to download updates automatically but never install them automtically. I install them whenever I'm ready.

  • Like 2

Yeah thats a pretty bad overlook, however one of the first thing I configure when I install any windows version, is setting it to download updates automatically but never install them automtically. I install them whenever I'm ready.

yeah, but as I said before you get that same banner pop up when it realizes there are updates to install, but just says "updates available" and happens over and over again until you install them or tell them no.. every time I log in I get that banner, windows 7 at least its just a system tray icon and not intrusive at all.. windows 8 it pops up in the middle of doing something, right at login, when ever and takes away the entire screen until you answer it

HVjc5.png

that is just annoying in the middle of work (i know that is someones mockup, but its the only image i can find right now and im not at home to get a screen shot of it at the moment)

I was just reading a few tech sites that call this "making windows updates less annoying"... how? by annoying us more?!

then I get this full screen banner pop up every time I try to run some apps I wrote myself....

windows-8-smartscreen.png?6cc8a5

once again someone elses screen shot but that is what I get

For the life of me, I cannot figure out the mental status of the people that seeming can't figure out how to navigate and work fluidly in both the 'desktop' and the new app layout.

They are easy to manage, and aside from the fact people may not like the aesthetics, it is not something that should cause this much of an issue. At this point, I can't tell if it is just whining, or people are so afraid to even look at something different that they just shut down. That, or it's just normal Microsoft hate.

  • Like 1

I've been a loyal Microsoft user for 10 years (apart from smartphones, there it's all Android), so nice excuse but no. I really do just dislike it. As I seem to keep needing to point out to the many shills on this forum you have no right to tell other people what does and does not count as a valid usability complaint, because usability is a very personal matter, and a very important one. You love the start screen? good for you. Stop slapping those of us that don't down as if we have some kind of mental deficiency, it's rude and insulting.

  • Like 2

I've been a loyal Microsoft user for 10 years (apart from smartphones, there it's all Android), so nice excuse but no. I really do just dislike it. As I seem to keep needing to point out to the many shills on this forum you have no right to tell other people what does and does not count as a valid usability complaint, because usability is a very personal matter, and a very important one. You love the start screen? good for you. Stop slapping those of us that don't down as if we have some kind of mental deficiency, it's rude and insulting.

Agreed. I always upgraded to the latest OS the week it is released. I probably will not upgrade to Windows 8. Why is it such a big deal to want an option when you install windows?

  • Like 2

I'll probably end up using it (begrudgingly) as I like to stay up to date for gaming, but I'll probably use something like Tihiy's StartIsBack to bypass the start screen.

I've been a loyal Microsoft user for 10 years (apart from smartphones, there it's all Android), so nice excuse but no. I really do just dislike it. As I seem to keep needing to point out to the many shills on this forum you have no right to tell other people what does and does not count as a valid usability complaint, because usability is a very personal matter, and a very important one. You love the start screen? good for you. Stop slapping those of us that don't down as if we have some kind of mental deficiency, it's rude and insulting.

+2

Trouble is, those who disagree with those who are proclaiming Windows 8 as a wonderful piece of work, are somehow labelled as 'haters', 'trolls' and/or whining babies, just because we don't agree with their point of view.

If you like Windows 8, good, then use it. I don't, so I wont use it, which is also good.

  • Like 3

+2

Trouble is, those who disagree with those who are proclaiming Windows 8 as a wonderful piece of work, are somehow labelled as 'haters', 'trolls' and/or whining babies, just because we don't agree with their point of view.

If you like Windows 8, good, then use it. I don't, so I wont use it, which is also good.

That's what I don't understand, the fanboys of Windows 8 here are hardcore, and defend it like nothing I've seen before. If you even offer your opinion (which come on everyone is entitled to), you're immediately shot down by the fanboys. After using it from launch, I can say the desktop experience is truly miserable (and remember this is my opinion). I spend most of my time on the "desktop" but anytime I go on the start screen or a metro app, I lose focus of the apps that need attention on the desktop (things like IM). I'm sure these apps can use notifications API in the OS...Anyways, I admire MS for trying to unify the UI experience on phone, tablet, PC platforms, but W8 just does not work on a non-touch screen device.
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Posts

    • Yup, that's a doozy right there 😄
    • It's a bundle of tools created by a variety of people, so things can go wrong sometimes. It's a great addition to Windows, and I use a lot of the tools on a daily basis. Also, it's still a 0.**** release so quick updates are to be expected 😉
    • Oh, I did. And it's even worse than I was hoping! Besides a lot of techno-babble jargon (yes I understand 100% of it but it's still all just techno-babble) there's 2 key points that make me super-weary about even considering testing this out. -- By default, after installation, a relay is automatically set up, so you do not need to care about that. * Non-chatmail apps use email servers as a long-term message archive while chatmail clients use email servers for ephemeral instant message relay. * Supporting the full variety of classic email setups would require considerable development and maintenance efforts, and complicate making chatmail-based messaging more resilient, reliable and fast. -- Basically, the end-user device is the 'server' (relay) so there is NO ARCHIVING whatsoever because every message is necessarily ephemeral. Great for techno-paranoia (and for illicit activities preferring no tracks to cover) but terrible for everybody else. It's also ironically contradictory to engineering principles of redundancies besides the transport layers due to the explicit absence of any persistent storage. Instead of 'classic email address' retaining multi-GB messaging archives on its server, now every device must retain 100% of those storage demands. (Email messages were originally meant to be short correspondences, not the multi-MB attachments boondoggle that now exists with unlimited spam engines flooding every potential recipient.) Any device swap or reset (or loss) makes the entire message history go bye-bye forever... lest there's an off-device auto-archival "relay" mechanism that's really a separate server that holds onto all transported messages (an email server) that utilizes 'chatmail email address' identities (like an email server) and its own persistent storage archive (like an email server). But... this solution is hoping to exist alongside real-world email address identities (based on the email server relay pathway) but simply render messages in chat thread format in an ephemeral manner (with contents being encrypted, and messages auto-expiring) ... In the end, it's a chat app/experience for the Web3/P2P-at-all-costs zealots. (I have accts on all sorts of federated web3 services so I understand the technical and non-technical alike.) For any practical users, however, it's just another service to download/install, register, cross-share id cards/qr codes, but know that there's no history/archive whatsoever (by design) so no account/message recovery whatsoever... update the device, install a bummed update patch, or dare upgrade your device... all history, poof, gone. Ya gotta start everything over again like they're a brand new person.
    • You've tried DuckDuckGo and Brave Search, now get serious with SearXNG by Paul Hill Over the last decade, it has become quite trendy to dump Google Search in favor of privacy-preserving alternatives such as DuckDuckGo, Startpage, and Brave Search. These search engines have done a very good job at highlighting dodgy practices by Google, such as adjusting search results based on what it thinks you’ll like (filter bubble) and stalking you around the web to advertise to you. While these search engines are good starting points when compared to non-private services like Google, there are still quite a few issues with them. For example, both DuckDuckGo and Brave Search require running non-free JavaScript in your web browser, which is comparable to running proprietary software on your computer, meaning you can be sure about what it’s actually doing in the background. Another issue is that these search engines are hosted on the respective companies’ servers, and you are using a service that you don’t control. Finally, DuckDuckGo, while offering privacy features, relies heavily on Microsoft’s infrastructure for its results and, in the past, has permitted Microsoft tracking scripts. If you are looking for a more private search solution than DuckDuckGo, Brave Search, and Startpage, then I recommend taking a look at SearXNG. It is a privacy-respecting metasearch engine that can be used via different public instances, which is useful for mobile users, or you can install it on your computer or server and run it locally with maximum control. Unlike Google, Bing, or Brave Search, which crawl the web and have their own search indexes, SearXNG is a metasearch engine, meaning it taps other search engines, stripping your identifying data, such as IP address, user agent, and cookies, in the process. Your search query is sent to the other search engines you enable before aggregating the results. SearXNG has deployment flexibility. If you are a casual user or a mobile user and don’t want to run SearXNG locally, you can use a public instance that is hosted by someone else. The main problem with this is that you are putting trust in the maintainer of the instance regarding stuff like logs that they may keep; good hosts should have a privacy policy explaining their policies. If you are trying to use SearXNG, you can also install the software on your device and then head to 127.0.0.1:8080 in your browser and search from there. While you don’t have to worry about a third-party admin like the public instances, search engines could ultimately block your IP address if they frown on you pulling in their search results locally. If you want to run it locally, it’s a good idea to use proxies or VPNs to hide your actual IP. You don’t have to worry about this with a public instance, as search engines never see your IP address. The main privacy benefit of using SearXNG is that it isolates your identity from the underlying engines that it’s capable of searching, such as Google and Bing. These search engines will only see requests coming from a generic server, so they can’t profile you and create a bubble filter that influences what results you see. This also ensures that your search engine doesn’t turn into an echo chamber that prevents you from reading alternative points of view. As a free software project, you are allowed to inspect SearXNG to make sure there are no negative features bundled inside. This sets it apart from the privacy search engines mentioned earlier because you can’t check their source code. As a meta search engine, you are not restricted to getting results from one source. Due to the fact that it scrapes content from other websites, your SearXNG instance will periodically get blocked from different providers, so it’s good to select a range of sources as a backup. While enabling all of the services will give you great results, this can make searching slower. I am personally happy with slower searches for the best results, but you can always check which providers are slowing down your search from the search results page and disable them to speed things up. If you want decent results quickly, enable the main search providers such as Google, Brave, DuckDuckGo, Qwant, Bing, and Yahoo. This way, you get wide coverage without the latency. On the Engines tab in Preferences, do note that there are different tabs, such as General, Images, and Videos, with their own providers that can be toggled and are not covered by "Enable all" while on the General tab, so be sure to dig into each. Just a note, if you want to enable everything, press "Enable all" in one tab, then hit save at the bottom of the page, then do the next tab, and so on. If you press "Enable all", then do that in each tab, and then save, nothing will stick. When I had just some of the search engines enabled, I searched “define nefarious” and results came back with the definition of “define” - obviously that was a sucky result. However, when I had everything enabled, it found dictionary pages for the word “nefarious” and even had an inline definition on the sidebar, which is quite nice too - that was delivered by WolframAlpha for anyone wondering! Probably the worst thing about this meta search engine is that the engines you select are saved with a cookie, so you must enable them on every new device you use SearXNG on, including if you decide to go into incognito mode with your web browser. Honestly, I would say this is the most annoying aspect, and perhaps if your browser lets you choose a separate private browsing search engine, then it would be best to use DuckDuckGo for this portion of your browsing. Another weakness of SearXNG is the random blocking of it by search providers. When you are on the results page, expand the “Response time” box, and it will show things like “Suspended: too many requests” or “access denied”. This is why it is good to enable several providers so that there is always a fallback to get results from. I won’t pretend SearXNG will be for everyone, however, if you enable all of the providers and put up with the slower response time, the results can be really amazing. Even if you don’t want to use it as your daily driver, keeping a bookmark handy that links to it is a good idea if you ever feel like doing a deep dive into a niche topic where other search engines are just failing to bring up any good result, due to the amount of sources it looks on. If you’re interested in radical user control over the software you use, installing SearXNG locally can also be a good idea, but be prepared to be temporarily blocked from sites if you trigger bot sensors without a VPN. Personally, I’ve opted to use a public instance, rather than install it myself. If you want to use it via a public instance, head over to searx.space to find a provider. Let us know in the comments if you have used SearXNG or its predecessor, Searx. What do you think about the quality of the results?
    • Dear Neowin, If it is not too much trouble, can you start using the new-ish designations for Insider Preview? "Experimental" is different than "former Dev" as it can apply to different models, eg 26H1 or 26H2 etc, right? No need to seed confusion IMHO. And, please "finally" update your graphics. OK?
  • Recent Achievements

    • Week One Done
      flexorcist earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Month Later
      Woland13 earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Woland13 earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Year In
      bernmeister earned a badge
      One Year In
    • Week One Done
      Scoobystu earned a badge
      Week One Done
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      503
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      226
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      158
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      75
    5. 5
      FloatingFatMan
      71
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!