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What the hell has happened to arch linux?

arch linux terrible systemd

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#16 Farstrider

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:27

It's got nothing to do with being "reasonable" whatsoever, but whatever rocks your boat. Linux has been taken seriously for years so not really sure what you are trying to imply? What I think you should do is a get a better understanding what the difference is between updates that get pushed at you, and the ones that YOU choose to run. Anyway, that's me on the subject, good luck to the OP on getting his setup sorted.


#17 HawkMan

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:29

Reasonable vendors don't push such massive changes in an update, they do it in a new version. If it's a potentially config breaking change it should NEVER be pushed as stable when it clearly is not. And as sick as I am of Windows 8 this is why Linux won't get taken seriously, you shouldn't have to be a complete nerd to update an OS without breaking it completely.


He's running ARCH linux, not ubuntu, it's not a user friendly distro. It's a distro for those who want and can do a lot of technical stuff. They warned him that "we are removing this feature, YOU HAVE TO migrate to this other function or your system will break".

He did not pay attention to this and got burned. Remember Arch doesn't really have end users themselves, the users there, at least those who get it from Arch are more like OEM's. full windows licenses they get support from MS, with OEM licenses, the person/company who installs the OEM license, is responsible for all support. This is the same with Arch, they provide a linux distro, but it's up to the "user" to make it work and run, and keep up with the changes and understand what they mean.

They didn't break his system, he broke it by not following the guidelines and instructions they gave.

Snipped

#18 OP n_K

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:33

Snipped

"They didn't break his system, he broke it by not following the guidelines and instructions they gave."
Oh yeah I totally forgot having bugs in gnome volume applet, not telling people how to migrate gnome to systemd on front page, REMOVING the network setup information from the wiki for systemd and all the other problems is my fault.
I'm asking you one more time before I just add you to the ignore list -> GO AWAY.

#19 Colin McGregor

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:36

a Linux update completely breaking Linux?? You better post this on a Linux forum and warn people of this rare occasion.

#20 ViperAFK

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:43

Arch is a technical oriented distro, its rolling release, and it sticks close to upstream. Its not a distro you can just update without paying attention, or you will 'break' it. Upstream has moved to systemd/logind. Consolekit isn't even maintained anymore, and the arch devs aren't going to fork/maintain it themselves. The only logical way forward for the arch devs was to switch to systemd, this has been discussed a million times in the arch forums and irc, and they had good reasons to switch. You should have seen this coming, its common knowledge arch is switching to systemd.

#21 HawkMan

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:46

Arch is a rolling release, do you understand what that means? Don't use a rolling release distro then. It is 'stable', OP just didn't read the news and make the required changes and just updated willy nilly. You can't do that in arch.


He's already been told this, and his response amount to, this shouldn't happen and you're a kid for telling me.

#22 ViperAFK

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:50

Reasonable vendors don't push such massive changes in an update, they do it in a new version. If it's a potentially config breaking change it should NEVER be pushed as stable when it clearly is not. And as sick as I am of Windows 8 this is why Linux won't get taken seriously, you shouldn't have to be a complete nerd to update an OS without breaking it completely.


Arch is a technically oriented, 'bleeding edge' distro, and they don't pretend to be anything else, there are user friendly distros like ubuntu out there. Linux isn't 'not going to be taken seriously' because of arch. its a niche distro for technically minded people who want up to date upstream packages. This thread is ridiculous.

#23 OP n_K

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:54

"Arch is a technically oriented, 'bleeding edge' distro, and they don't pretend to be anything else, there are user friendly distros like ubuntu out there. Linux isn't 'not going to be taken seriously' because of arch. its a niche distro for technically minded people who want up to date upstream packages. This thread is ridiculous."
Yeah it is, and the bleeding-edge is in the TESTING repo as I've previously said, STABLE contains (supposidly) tested and confirmed working packages, if you think gnome-volume-applet being completely buggy with no icon and the mouse wheel not working should be in the STABLE branch, you've got a warped view.

#24 ViperAFK

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:56

"Arch is a technically oriented, 'bleeding edge' distro, and they don't pretend to be anything else, there are user friendly distros like ubuntu out there. Linux isn't 'not going to be taken seriously' because of arch. its a niche distro for technically minded people who want up to date upstream packages. This thread is ridiculous."
Yeah it is, and the bleeding-edge is in the TESTING repo as I've previously said, STABLE contains (supposidly) tested and confirmed working packages, if you think gnome-volume-applet being completely buggy with no icon and the mouse wheel not working should be in the STABLE branch, you've got a warped view.


There's a difference between an update being unstable and an update requiring user intervention. OP updated a ton of packages without reading any of the news or wiki so it messed up his system.

#25 OP n_K

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:58

Systemd isn't unstable, its an update that REQUIRES USER INTERVENTION, because its a big change.

When did I say systemd is unstable? I said they haven't put on the main page about converting your system from initscripts to systemd properly, you've got to search the wiki/google throughly for the pages to set it up and once again THE PAGE WITH HOW TO SET UP STATIC NETWORKING USING SYSTEMD WAS REMOVED, EXPLAIN THAT....

Oh nice complete change of your comment there;
"There's a difference between an update being unstable and an update requiring user intervention. OP updated a ton of packages without reading any of the news or wiki so it messed up his system."
I did read it, it mentions "End of initscripts support" was not posted, "ConsoleKit replaced by logind" does NOT give any hints or tips or links to how to setup GNOME to use systemd, "systemd is now the default on new installations" Not relevent.

Edited by n_K, 04 November 2012 - 18:01.


#26 HawkMan

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 18:00

No testing is for beta stuff, this change was stable and working and done with testing and was thus moved to the stable branch. there was nothing unstable about this change, it simply deactivated a deprecated no longer supported function, that had been informed about well in advance. and replaced it with a newer support stable function.

Arch is a rolling release at the bleeding edge.
Fedora is also a bleeding edge distro, not quite as much as Arch, but more user oriented, and not a rollign release.
Ubuntu is a stable release focusing on stability over new functions and lags far behind the other two in supporting new functions because they get tested far longer and aren't added to the distro until they're known to be stable.

It just doesn't seem like Arch is a distro that suits you if you complain about this.

#27 ViperAFK

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 18:01

You two clearly shouldn't be using arch, is all I have left to say :)

#28 OP n_K

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 18:06

I'd probably say it is a gnome bug, but it's a feature you use every single day so how it could have been glanced over and put from TESTING to STABLE is rediculous.

EDIT: Also related; https://bbs.archlinu...php?pid=1185645
https://bbs.archlinu...c.php?id=151910

Edited by n_K, 04 November 2012 - 18:11.


#29 Xilo

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 18:09

Arch Linux is really turning to ****. Almost every time I do a system update, it completely breaks everything.

I tried reinstalling, and what happened? They made the install EVEN MORE DIFFICULT. Why the hell the removed the assisted GUI menu to install is beyond me but it's freaking retarded they would do that.

#30 ViperAFK

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 18:12

Arch Linux is really turning to ****. Almost every time I do a system update, it completely breaks everything.

I tried reinstalling, and what happened? They made the install EVEN MORE DIFFICULT. Why the hell the removed the assisted GUI menu to install is beyond me but it's freaking retarded they would do that.


The AIF was buggy and no longer maintained. I didn't have any problems with the new install myself, just a few extra commands instead of using a few menus. All documented clearly in the beginner's guide.

The news installscripts are more flexible and easier for the devs to maintain.