What the hell has happened to arch linux?

[HawkMan]

No testing is for beta stuff, this change was stable and working and done with testing and was thus moved to the stable branch. there was nothing unstable about this change, it simply deactivated a deprecated no longer supported function, that had been informed about well in advance. and replaced it with a newer support stable function.

Arch is a rolling release at the bleeding edge.

Fedora is also a bleeding edge distro, not quite as much as Arch, but more user oriented, and not a rollign release.

Ubuntu is a stable release focusing on stability over new functions and lags far behind the other two in supporting new functions because they get tested far longer and aren't added to the distro until they're known to be stable.

It just doesn't seem like Arch is a distro that suits you if you complain about this.

[ViperAFK]

You two clearly shouldn't be using arch, is all I have left to say :)

[n_K]

I'd probably say it is a gnome bug, but it's a feature you use every single day so how it could have been glanced over and put from TESTING to STABLE is rediculous.

EDIT: Also related; https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1185645

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=151910

Edited November 4, 2012 by n_K

[Xilo]

Arch Linux is really turning to ****. Almost every time I do a system update, it completely breaks everything.

I tried reinstalling, and what happened? They made the install EVEN MORE DIFFICULT. Why the hell the removed the assisted GUI menu to install is beyond me but it's freaking retarded they would do that.

[ViperAFK]

Arch Linux is really turning to ****. Almost every time I do a system update, it completely breaks everything.

I tried reinstalling, and what happened? They made the install EVEN MORE DIFFICULT. Why the hell the removed the assisted GUI menu to install is beyond me but it's freaking retarded they would do that.

The AIF was buggy and no longer maintained. I didn't have any problems with the new install myself, just a few extra commands instead of using a few menus. All documented clearly in the beginner's guide.

The news installscripts are more flexible and easier for the devs to maintain.

[n_K]

"Why the hell the removed the assisted GUI menu to install is beyond me but it's freaking retarded they would do that."

I'm not sure why they did that if I'm honest, I found it annoying when I setup a shift2 VM. Only thing I can think is that it had bugs, but I never encountered any.

[n_K]

Oh another bug, this keeps getting better and better... You can't use startx or xinit to open a second session any more...

*starts looking for another distro*

EDIT: Another user is having the same problem with startx, in fact, https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewforum.php?id=23

Look at the bugs the new gnome update has caused! TESTING and STABLE? I think not, more like SHOULDPROBABLYTEST and CANTBEARSEDTOTEST....

[ViperAFK]

Oh another bug, this keeps getting better and better... You can't use startx or xinit to open a second session any more...

*starts looking for another distro*

EDIT: Another user is having the same problem with startx, in fact, https://bbs.archlinu...forum.php?id=23

Look at the bugs the new gnome update has caused! TESTING and STABLE? I think not, more like SHOULDPROBABLYTEST and CANTBEARSEDTOTEST....

Arch isn't responsible for gnome bugs. Gnome 3.6 is 'stable' upstream.

[nvllsvm]

I'm an Arch Linux user and this change was no problem for me. Sounds like Arch is not for you; go use ubuntu.

[n_K]

I'm an Arch Linux user and this change was no problem for me. Sounds like Arch is not for you; go use ubuntu.

So you don't use sound nor do you use another X11 session? Well that's great, thanks for the useful insight to these problems...

[Mindovermaster Global Moderator]

He's giving you plain advice, please take it with a pinch of salt.

[Colin McGregor]

Arch Linux is really turning to ****. Almost every time I do a system update, it completely breaks everything.

I tried reinstalling, and what happened? They made the install EVEN MORE DIFFICULT. Why the hell the removed the assisted GUI menu to install is beyond me but it's freaking retarded they would do that.

if something like arch or Gentoo is too hard for you then your probably more suited to use one of the noobuntu flavours.

[n_K]

Update on problem with being unable to change themes - you have to do it manually through gconf-editor, for some reason gnome-tweak-tool will say it's changed the theme but it really does absolutely nothing, changing the key via gconf-edit changes the theme right away. Volume indicator is still black and can't be seen though plus has the scroll wheel bug after numerous restarts. Annoying borders still present around panel widgets. Tried switching to gnome-shell and systemd managed to cause GDM or X11 to crash completely and didn't restart it, had to CTRL + ALT + F2, login and root and stop gdm using systemctl and start it again.

[+Majesticmerc MVC]

Can't speak for Gnome or multiple X sessions, but sound (pulseaudio) is working for me, it's most likely a configuration issue.

That said, Arch's migration to Systemd has been nothing short of catastrophic IMO. I run it on both my desktop and my laptop, and at multiple times have ended up making changes to configs in /etc/ and /usr/ that should have been done as part of updates.

There really should have been a migration guide on the Wiki for people switching from sysvinit. The systemd article is OK, but insufficient.

[n_K]

Here's a pic to illistrate the current annoying problems. I've looked through the scalable icons folder and even changed the audio ones, logged off and logged in but neither the OSD image nor the sound panel image are changed so I just reverted back.

And yes I do agree there should have, but for some reason some people posting here think you should just automatically know that switching from initscripts to systemd means inittab no longer works and things like that :s.

Oh and just got yet another bug in gnome, right click panel, go to properties and adjust the transparency of the panel -> instant crash for all applets on that panel.... How did gnome 3.6 EVER leave testing is something I'd really like to know.

[Growled Member]

That's just Arch being Arch.

[firey]

Installed all my arch updates.. I had some issues with Gnome and some strange looking things. I have re-installed my Cinnamon theme, and ensured that my daemons got linked with the systemd. Downloaded gnome-tweak-tool from the repo and all seems good.

The only problem I am having right now.. is that whenever I start it up, I have to run gnome-tweak-tool and reset the "Have file manager handle the desktop". Because until I disable then re-enable the icons have a black font which can't be seen on my desktop, and the menu is the white/grey not the dark that I set.

[Xilo]

if something like arch or Gentoo is too hard for you then your probably more suited to use one of the noobuntu flavours.

Sorry sir, but I have used Gentoo many times in the past and used Arch many times. In fact, my first Gentoo install was a stage 1 on a 1.7ghz P4. It took 3 days of compiling to get to a usable desktop environment. The thing is, it's pretty dumb to have a regression in the difficulty of installing your distribution.

[n_K]

I removed nautilus 3.6, found it to be complete crap and missing all the features that made it great, got the PKGBUILD and rebuilt 3.4 and installed that, suddenly .sh files on my desktop with eXecute enabled now asked me if I wanted to run them again instead of just opening in gedit!

[n_K]

This is just astounding.... Anyone know how to get rid of the login sounds/noises/dribbles on the gnome login screen? Whenever I select my username I hear a load of annoying 'drip' noises, and the only way it seems to disable them appears to be by disabling event sounds which disables the noise when you change volume using keyboard keys which I don't want to do. Heck deleting the sound file from /usr/share/sounds doesn't stop it, seems the gnome team found a new way to **** people off, hide sounds and images inside of the executables so you can't change them without recompiling them.

[n_K]

Just done a whole fresh new install using the latest installation media on my laptop and can confirm the icons are all bugged, no volume, bluetooth or battery icon is visible, the volume slider is messed up, etc. so it goes to show arch's standards are at rock bottom if they put this out as 'stable' -> it doesn't even work.

Running startx makes X11 exit completely on the laptop install.

#whatajoke

But at least now the wiki has instructions for getting static IP addresses on systemd (I haven't bothered to try it so I'm unsure if it actually works or not though)

EDIT: "The only problem I am having right now.. is that whenever I start it up, I have to run gnome-tweak-tool and reset the "Have file manager handle the desktop". Because until I disable then re-enable the icons have a black font which can't be seen on my desktop, and the menu is the white/grey not the dark that I set."

Sounds like a problem with gnome-settings-daemon, ironically being linked to a bug I found with smartcards, when I logged in using a smartcard, GSD would crash and all colours would look awful plus no background, I submitted a bug report and a partial error log from a debug compiled version but shortly after I got annoyed with the whole smartcard login and got rid of it so I'm unsure if it ever got investigated or fixed, but it'll be related to GSD.

[Nothing Here]

I do use linux. and while Windows doesn't break things, you're not using windows are you, you're using linux, and you DID NOT check what the update actually did. whatever branch you're on, it's YOUR responsibility to check that the update doesn't break your OS. just like admins on windows have to run all updates on test servers first.

You're the one who chose to use linux, and specifically arch linux, that makes it your responsibility to check what the updates do, regardless of how many lines of changelog you have to check. you can't push this problem onto the devs.

oh and HEY LOOK

https://www.archlinux.org/

the top news on the archlinux website. yeah I can see you did thorough research on what was in this update, and that finding out initscripts are no longer supported required very thorough reading of long change logs indeed....

As for helping with the issue. you're saying you don't want help you just want to whine, if you had gone to the site and read said news, you'd see they recommend migrating to systemd.

personally I would recommend you migrate to Ubuntu, that way you don't have to worry about such things and you don't have to complaint hat the devs change stuff to make your life hard.

How many people actually go back every single day to the sites you dl your distro from? Not many, if there are any. I haven't been back to the Fedora site in ages. Their updates don't break my system. Sorry HawkMan, but this is on the devs shoulders. Not the user.

[ViperAFK]

How many people actually go back every single day to the sites you dl your distro from? Not many, if there are any. I haven't been back to the Fedora site in ages. Their updates don't break my system. Sorry HawkMan, but this is on the devs shoulders. Not the user.

Arch is more bleeding edge than other distros, and it doesn't hide this. In addition to this its a rolling release. This combination is why you need to make sure you pay attention when you do updates. It is on the user's shoulder's if they choose a bleeding edge rolling release distro and don't be careful when updating.

Fedora isn't rolling release, so it doesn't get major changes in updates that require intervention. A closer comparison would be upgrading from one fedora release to another.

Arch is a hobbyist distro, I think you are expecting a bit much out of devs doing all this work for free. If you want a more end user friendly distro there's ubuntu, fedora etc...

[Arceles]

Ladies and Gentleman... this is the reason because Ubuntu is somehow famous amount the people trying to experience linux, move just a bit to another distribution and you got two choices: Either you become a guru and "hack" the installation as someone has said or die trying.

I'm a great windows user, for sure, but in this case I'm gonna say this: Dead to all non friendly distributions, long life Ubuntu (or Debian...)

[jaylittle]

Snipped

I would just dump Arch. Because no matter what anyone says, you the user will always be the one to blame, not the devs. Maybe move onto something else.

That's not the case at all. Arch isn't a distro for end users. Distros like Ubuntu and Mint fill that role. Distros like Arch are meant for technical users that want to live on the bleeding edge. Hence installing updates in Arch is nothing like installing updates in Ubuntu, Mint or even Windows. It's a totally different ballgame. If you want an end user experience, use an end user distro. Complaining that Arch doesn't handle updates like Windows is like complaining that your screwdriver doesn't work as well as your hammer.