Recommended Posts

No testing is for beta stuff, this change was stable and working and done with testing and was thus moved to the stable branch. there was nothing unstable about this change, it simply deactivated a deprecated no longer supported function, that had been informed about well in advance. and replaced it with a newer support stable function.

Arch is a rolling release at the bleeding edge.

Fedora is also a bleeding edge distro, not quite as much as Arch, but more user oriented, and not a rollign release.

Ubuntu is a stable release focusing on stability over new functions and lags far behind the other two in supporting new functions because they get tested far longer and aren't added to the distro until they're known to be stable.

It just doesn't seem like Arch is a distro that suits you if you complain about this.

I'd probably say it is a gnome bug, but it's a feature you use every single day so how it could have been glanced over and put from TESTING to STABLE is rediculous.

EDIT: Also related; https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1185645

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=151910

Edited by n_K

Arch Linux is really turning to ****. Almost every time I do a system update, it completely breaks everything.

I tried reinstalling, and what happened? They made the install EVEN MORE DIFFICULT. Why the hell the removed the assisted GUI menu to install is beyond me but it's freaking retarded they would do that.

Arch Linux is really turning to ****. Almost every time I do a system update, it completely breaks everything.

I tried reinstalling, and what happened? They made the install EVEN MORE DIFFICULT. Why the hell the removed the assisted GUI menu to install is beyond me but it's freaking retarded they would do that.

The AIF was buggy and no longer maintained. I didn't have any problems with the new install myself, just a few extra commands instead of using a few menus. All documented clearly in the beginner's guide.

The news installscripts are more flexible and easier for the devs to maintain.

"Why the hell the removed the assisted GUI menu to install is beyond me but it's freaking retarded they would do that."

I'm not sure why they did that if I'm honest, I found it annoying when I setup a shift2 VM. Only thing I can think is that it had bugs, but I never encountered any.

Oh another bug, this keeps getting better and better... You can't use startx or xinit to open a second session any more...

*starts looking for another distro*

EDIT: Another user is having the same problem with startx, in fact, https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewforum.php?id=23

Look at the bugs the new gnome update has caused! TESTING and STABLE? I think not, more like SHOULDPROBABLYTEST and CANTBEARSEDTOTEST....

Oh another bug, this keeps getting better and better... You can't use startx or xinit to open a second session any more...

*starts looking for another distro*

EDIT: Another user is having the same problem with startx, in fact, https://bbs.archlinu...forum.php?id=23

Look at the bugs the new gnome update has caused! TESTING and STABLE? I think not, more like SHOULDPROBABLYTEST and CANTBEARSEDTOTEST....

Arch isn't responsible for gnome bugs. Gnome 3.6 is 'stable' upstream.

I'm an Arch Linux user and this change was no problem for me. Sounds like Arch is not for you; go use ubuntu.

So you don't use sound nor do you use another X11 session? Well that's great, thanks for the useful insight to these problems...

Arch Linux is really turning to ****. Almost every time I do a system update, it completely breaks everything.

I tried reinstalling, and what happened? They made the install EVEN MORE DIFFICULT. Why the hell the removed the assisted GUI menu to install is beyond me but it's freaking retarded they would do that.

if something like arch or Gentoo is too hard for you then your probably more suited to use one of the noobuntu flavours.

Update on problem with being unable to change themes - you have to do it manually through gconf-editor, for some reason gnome-tweak-tool will say it's changed the theme but it really does absolutely nothing, changing the key via gconf-edit changes the theme right away. Volume indicator is still black and can't be seen though plus has the scroll wheel bug after numerous restarts. Annoying borders still present around panel widgets. Tried switching to gnome-shell and systemd managed to cause GDM or X11 to crash completely and didn't restart it, had to CTRL + ALT + F2, login and root and stop gdm using systemctl and start it again.

Can't speak for Gnome or multiple X sessions, but sound (pulseaudio) is working for me, it's most likely a configuration issue.

That said, Arch's migration to Systemd has been nothing short of catastrophic IMO. I run it on both my desktop and my laptop, and at multiple times have ended up making changes to configs in /etc/ and /usr/ that should have been done as part of updates.

There really should have been a migration guide on the Wiki for people switching from sysvinit. The systemd article is OK, but insufficient.

Here's a pic to illistrate the current annoying problems. I've looked through the scalable icons folder and even changed the audio ones, logged off and logged in but neither the OSD image nor the sound panel image are changed so I just reverted back.

And yes I do agree there should have, but for some reason some people posting here think you should just automatically know that switching from initscripts to systemd means inittab no longer works and things like that :s.

Oh and just got yet another bug in gnome, right click panel, go to properties and adjust the transparency of the panel -> instant crash for all applets on that panel.... How did gnome 3.6 EVER leave testing is something I'd really like to know.

post-160466-0-06523800-1352074039.png

Installed all my arch updates.. I had some issues with Gnome and some strange looking things. I have re-installed my Cinnamon theme, and ensured that my daemons got linked with the systemd. Downloaded gnome-tweak-tool from the repo and all seems good.

The only problem I am having right now.. is that whenever I start it up, I have to run gnome-tweak-tool and reset the "Have file manager handle the desktop". Because until I disable then re-enable the icons have a black font which can't be seen on my desktop, and the menu is the white/grey not the dark that I set.

auYfg.jpg

if something like arch or Gentoo is too hard for you then your probably more suited to use one of the noobuntu flavours.

Sorry sir, but I have used Gentoo many times in the past and used Arch many times. In fact, my first Gentoo install was a stage 1 on a 1.7ghz P4. It took 3 days of compiling to get to a usable desktop environment. The thing is, it's pretty dumb to have a regression in the difficulty of installing your distribution.

I removed nautilus 3.6, found it to be complete crap and missing all the features that made it great, got the PKGBUILD and rebuilt 3.4 and installed that, suddenly .sh files on my desktop with eXecute enabled now asked me if I wanted to run them again instead of just opening in gedit!

This is just astounding.... Anyone know how to get rid of the login sounds/noises/dribbles on the gnome login screen? Whenever I select my username I hear a load of annoying 'drip' noises, and the only way it seems to disable them appears to be by disabling event sounds which disables the noise when you change volume using keyboard keys which I don't want to do. Heck deleting the sound file from /usr/share/sounds doesn't stop it, seems the gnome team found a new way to **** people off, hide sounds and images inside of the executables so you can't change them without recompiling them.

Just done a whole fresh new install using the latest installation media on my laptop and can confirm the icons are all bugged, no volume, bluetooth or battery icon is visible, the volume slider is messed up, etc. so it goes to show arch's standards are at rock bottom if they put this out as 'stable' -> it doesn't even work.

Running startx makes X11 exit completely on the laptop install.

#whatajoke

But at least now the wiki has instructions for getting static IP addresses on systemd (I haven't bothered to try it so I'm unsure if it actually works or not though)

EDIT: "The only problem I am having right now.. is that whenever I start it up, I have to run gnome-tweak-tool and reset the "Have file manager handle the desktop". Because until I disable then re-enable the icons have a black font which can't be seen on my desktop, and the menu is the white/grey not the dark that I set."

Sounds like a problem with gnome-settings-daemon, ironically being linked to a bug I found with smartcards, when I logged in using a smartcard, GSD would crash and all colours would look awful plus no background, I submitted a bug report and a partial error log from a debug compiled version but shortly after I got annoyed with the whole smartcard login and got rid of it so I'm unsure if it ever got investigated or fixed, but it'll be related to GSD.

I do use linux. and while Windows doesn't break things, you're not using windows are you, you're using linux, and you DID NOT check what the update actually did. whatever branch you're on, it's YOUR responsibility to check that the update doesn't break your OS. just like admins on windows have to run all updates on test servers first.

You're the one who chose to use linux, and specifically arch linux, that makes it your responsibility to check what the updates do, regardless of how many lines of changelog you have to check. you can't push this problem onto the devs.

oh and HEY LOOK

https://www.archlinux.org/

the top news on the archlinux website. yeah I can see you did thorough research on what was in this update, and that finding out initscripts are no longer supported required very thorough reading of long change logs indeed....

As for helping with the issue. you're saying you don't want help you just want to whine, if you had gone to the site and read said news, you'd see they recommend migrating to systemd.

personally I would recommend you migrate to Ubuntu, that way you don't have to worry about such things and you don't have to complaint hat the devs change stuff to make your life hard.

How many people actually go back every single day to the sites you dl your distro from? Not many, if there are any. I haven't been back to the Fedora site in ages. Their updates don't break my system. Sorry HawkMan, but this is on the devs shoulders. Not the user.

How many people actually go back every single day to the sites you dl your distro from? Not many, if there are any. I haven't been back to the Fedora site in ages. Their updates don't break my system. Sorry HawkMan, but this is on the devs shoulders. Not the user.

Arch is more bleeding edge than other distros, and it doesn't hide this. In addition to this its a rolling release. This combination is why you need to make sure you pay attention when you do updates. It is on the user's shoulder's if they choose a bleeding edge rolling release distro and don't be careful when updating.

Fedora isn't rolling release, so it doesn't get major changes in updates that require intervention. A closer comparison would be upgrading from one fedora release to another.

Arch is a hobbyist distro, I think you are expecting a bit much out of devs doing all this work for free. If you want a more end user friendly distro there's ubuntu, fedora etc...

Ladies and Gentleman... this is the reason because Ubuntu is somehow famous amount the people trying to experience linux, move just a bit to another distribution and you got two choices: Either you become a guru and "hack" the installation as someone has said or die trying.

I'm a great windows user, for sure, but in this case I'm gonna say this: Dead to all non friendly distributions, long life Ubuntu (or Debian...)

Snipped

I would just dump Arch. Because no matter what anyone says, you the user will always be the one to blame, not the devs. Maybe move onto something else.

That's not the case at all. Arch isn't a distro for end users. Distros like Ubuntu and Mint fill that role. Distros like Arch are meant for technical users that want to live on the bleeding edge. Hence installing updates in Arch is nothing like installing updates in Ubuntu, Mint or even Windows. It's a totally different ballgame. If you want an end user experience, use an end user distro. Complaining that Arch doesn't handle updates like Windows is like complaining that your screwdriver doesn't work as well as your hammer.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Posts

    • Yup, that's a doozy right there 😄
    • It's a bundle of tools created by a variety of people, so things can go wrong sometimes. It's a great addition to Windows, and I use a lot of the tools on a daily basis. Also, it's still a 0.**** release so quick updates are to be expected 😉
    • Oh, I did. And it's even worse than I was hoping! Besides a lot of techno-babble jargon (yes I understand 100% of it but it's still all just techno-babble) there's 2 key points that make me super-weary about even considering testing this out. -- By default, after installation, a relay is automatically set up, so you do not need to care about that. * Non-chatmail apps use email servers as a long-term message archive while chatmail clients use email servers for ephemeral instant message relay. * Supporting the full variety of classic email setups would require considerable development and maintenance efforts, and complicate making chatmail-based messaging more resilient, reliable and fast. -- Basically, the end-user device is the 'server' (relay) so there is NO ARCHIVING whatsoever because every message is necessarily ephemeral. Great for techno-paranoia (and for illicit activities preferring no tracks to cover) but terrible for everybody else. It's also ironically contradictory to engineering principles of redundancies besides the transport layers due to the explicit absence of any persistent storage. Instead of 'classic email address' retaining multi-GB messaging archives on its server, now every device must retain 100% of those storage demands. (Email messages were originally meant to be short correspondences, not the multi-MB attachments boondoggle that now exists with unlimited spam engines flooding every potential recipient.) Any device swap or reset (or loss) makes the entire message history go bye-bye forever... lest there's an off-device auto-archival "relay" mechanism that's really a separate server that holds onto all transported messages (an email server) that utilizes 'chatmail email address' identities (like an email server) and its own persistent storage archive (like an email server). But... this solution is hoping to exist alongside real-world email address identities (based on the email server relay pathway) but simply render messages in chat thread format in an ephemeral manner (with contents being encrypted, and messages auto-expiring) ... In the end, it's a chat app/experience for the Web3/P2P-at-all-costs zealots. (I have accts on all sorts of federated web3 services so I understand the technical and non-technical alike.) For any practical users, however, it's just another service to download/install, register, cross-share id cards/qr codes, but know that there's no history/archive whatsoever (by design) so no account/message recovery whatsoever... update the device, install a bummed update patch, or dare upgrade your device... all history, poof, gone. Ya gotta start everything over again like they're a brand new person.
    • You've tried DuckDuckGo and Brave Search, now get serious with SearXNG by Paul Hill Over the last decade, it has become quite trendy to dump Google Search in favor of privacy-preserving alternatives such as DuckDuckGo, Startpage, and Brave Search. These search engines have done a very good job at highlighting dodgy practices by Google, such as adjusting search results based on what it thinks you’ll like (filter bubble) and stalking you around the web to advertise to you. While these search engines are good starting points when compared to non-private services like Google, there are still quite a few issues with them. For example, both DuckDuckGo and Brave Search require running non-free JavaScript in your web browser, which is comparable to running proprietary software on your computer, meaning you can be sure about what it’s actually doing in the background. Another issue is that these search engines are hosted on the respective companies’ servers, and you are using a service that you don’t control. Finally, DuckDuckGo, while offering privacy features, relies heavily on Microsoft’s infrastructure for its results and, in the past, has permitted Microsoft tracking scripts. If you are looking for a more private search solution than DuckDuckGo, Brave Search, and Startpage, then I recommend taking a look at SearXNG. It is a privacy-respecting metasearch engine that can be used via different public instances, which is useful for mobile users, or you can install it on your computer or server and run it locally with maximum control. Unlike Google, Bing, or Brave Search, which crawl the web and have their own search indexes, SearXNG is a metasearch engine, meaning it taps other search engines, stripping your identifying data, such as IP address, user agent, and cookies, in the process. Your search query is sent to the other search engines you enable before aggregating the results. SearXNG has deployment flexibility. If you are a casual user or a mobile user and don’t want to run SearXNG locally, you can use a public instance that is hosted by someone else. The main problem with this is that you are putting trust in the maintainer of the instance regarding stuff like logs that they may keep; good hosts should have a privacy policy explaining their policies. If you are trying to use SearXNG, you can also install the software on your device and then head to 127.0.0.1:8080 in your browser and search from there. While you don’t have to worry about a third-party admin like the public instances, search engines could ultimately block your IP address if they frown on you pulling in their search results locally. If you want to run it locally, it’s a good idea to use proxies or VPNs to hide your actual IP. You don’t have to worry about this with a public instance, as search engines never see your IP address. The main privacy benefit of using SearXNG is that it isolates your identity from the underlying engines that it’s capable of searching, such as Google and Bing. These search engines will only see requests coming from a generic server, so they can’t profile you and create a bubble filter that influences what results you see. This also ensures that your search engine doesn’t turn into an echo chamber that prevents you from reading alternative points of view. As a free software project, you are allowed to inspect SearXNG to make sure there are no negative features bundled inside. This sets it apart from the privacy search engines mentioned earlier because you can’t check their source code. As a meta search engine, you are not restricted to getting results from one source. Due to the fact that it scrapes content from other websites, your SearXNG instance will periodically get blocked from different providers, so it’s good to select a range of sources as a backup. While enabling all of the services will give you great results, this can make searching slower. I am personally happy with slower searches for the best results, but you can always check which providers are slowing down your search from the search results page and disable them to speed things up. If you want decent results quickly, enable the main search providers such as Google, Brave, DuckDuckGo, Qwant, Bing, and Yahoo. This way, you get wide coverage without the latency. On the Engines tab in Preferences, do note that there are different tabs, such as General, Images, and Videos, with their own providers that can be toggled and are not covered by "Enable all" while on the General tab, so be sure to dig into each. Just a note, if you want to enable everything, press "Enable all" in one tab, then hit save at the bottom of the page, then do the next tab, and so on. If you press "Enable all", then do that in each tab, and then save, nothing will stick. When I had just some of the search engines enabled, I searched “define nefarious” and results came back with the definition of “define” - obviously that was a sucky result. However, when I had everything enabled, it found dictionary pages for the word “nefarious” and even had an inline definition on the sidebar, which is quite nice too - that was delivered by WolframAlpha for anyone wondering! Probably the worst thing about this meta search engine is that the engines you select are saved with a cookie, so you must enable them on every new device you use SearXNG on, including if you decide to go into incognito mode with your web browser. Honestly, I would say this is the most annoying aspect, and perhaps if your browser lets you choose a separate private browsing search engine, then it would be best to use DuckDuckGo for this portion of your browsing. Another weakness of SearXNG is the random blocking of it by search providers. When you are on the results page, expand the “Response time” box, and it will show things like “Suspended: too many requests” or “access denied”. This is why it is good to enable several providers so that there is always a fallback to get results from. I won’t pretend SearXNG will be for everyone, however, if you enable all of the providers and put up with the slower response time, the results can be really amazing. Even if you don’t want to use it as your daily driver, keeping a bookmark handy that links to it is a good idea if you ever feel like doing a deep dive into a niche topic where other search engines are just failing to bring up any good result, due to the amount of sources it looks on. If you’re interested in radical user control over the software you use, installing SearXNG locally can also be a good idea, but be prepared to be temporarily blocked from sites if you trigger bot sensors without a VPN. Personally, I’ve opted to use a public instance, rather than install it myself. If you want to use it via a public instance, head over to searx.space to find a provider. Let us know in the comments if you have used SearXNG or its predecessor, Searx. What do you think about the quality of the results?
    • Dear Neowin, If it is not too much trouble, can you start using the new-ish designations for Insider Preview? "Experimental" is different than "former Dev" as it can apply to different models, eg 26H1 or 26H2 etc, right? No need to seed confusion IMHO. And, please "finally" update your graphics. OK?
  • Recent Achievements

    • Week One Done
      flexorcist earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Month Later
      Woland13 earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Woland13 earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Year In
      bernmeister earned a badge
      One Year In
    • Week One Done
      Scoobystu earned a badge
      Week One Done
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      503
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      226
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      158
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      75
    5. 5
      FloatingFatMan
      71
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!