37 replies to this topic

[Hum]

http://www.aol.com/v.../?ncid=webmail4

In this episode of Help From Beyond, a strange visitor came to Bella, 15, who was dying from cancer.

One night in her hospital room, the stranger, who called himself Wahkan, brought a cup of ice and said he was her nurse for that night, and told her her time has not yet come.

The next day, the cup of ice was there -- but he had vanished. And, Bella is still here to tell her story ...

[TPreston]

Quote

Let's imagine that you have cancer and that you are a believer. You pray to God for a cure, you undergo surgery and chemotherapy, and the cancer does in fact go into remission.

What cured you? Was it the chemotherapy, or was it God?

In other words, is there any way to know whether God is playing a role or not when we pray?

The problem is that, in this imagined case, there is ambiguity. The Christian believes that God answered the prayer, but it could also be a simple coincidence.

The way to remove the ambiguity is to say a prayer that cannot be answered by coincidence. For example, instead of praying that God cures one person's cancer, pray that God eliminates all cancer tomorrow. There is only one way for that to happen. God would have to exist, and God would have to reach down from heaven and explicitly work a miracle on earth.

[Growled]

A miracle, to me, would be a cure without any man-made intervention. Once man gets involved and you get cured, it's no miracle..

[Hum]

^ Miracles are only going to take place, if humans learn to use their innate abilities, correctly.

[PsYcHoKiLLa]

I believe in spelling, just kiddin

[compl3x]

Growled, on 24 December 2012 - 23:16, said:

A miracle, to me, would be a cure without any man-made intervention. Once man gets involved and you get cured, it's no miracle..

People have spontaneous remissions without intervention.

If you have a million people with cancer and 1/10 of 1% go into remission that is still 1000 people. If even half of those are religious they'd be inclined to attribute their remission to god/miracles.

[Growled]

^ Wouldn't it still be a miracle since the medical field don't understand why they occur?

[Mikeffer]

Growled, on 25 December 2012 - 20:31, said:

^ Wouldn't it still be a miracle since the medical field don't understand why they occur?

No. Just because we may not understand everything, doesn't make those things miracles.

[Growled]

Mikeffer, on 25 December 2012 - 20:43, said:

No. Just because we may not understand everything, doesn't make those things miracles.

If you go by that definition there are no miracles, only things we don't understand.

[LaP]

No i don't. Weird things happen all the time.

[The Laughing Man]

[arachnoid]

Survival chances are dramatically increased by will power alone, where the body is failing but the mind fights willing one on and thats what usually seperates the dead from the survivors in dramatic instances such as plane crashes or ship sinkings.Its the same inner will power that you hear of where people gain super human powers that lift crashed vehicles from on top of their children.

As to the name she used in Native American the meaning of the name Wahkan is Sacred hmmm....rather too much of a coinsidence for me.

[Mikeffer]

Growled, on 25 December 2012 - 20:45, said:

If you go by that definition there are no miracles, only things we don't understand.

Certain things that we do not understand still have their roots in science.
The brain for instance. We have very little understanding of how consciousness works bar the bare minimum, however as often as we may say "it's a miracle" we know and realise it isn't actually a miracle as such.

P.S. What's your sig taken from? Looks pretty damn cool.

[FloatingFatMan]

Growled, on 25 December 2012 - 20:45, said:

If you go by that definition there are no miracles, only things we don't understand.

Knowledge, and its dismissal of ignorance, is the only real miracle.

[compl3x]

Growled, on 25 December 2012 - 20:45, said:

If you go by that definition there are no miracles, only things we don't understand.

I don't believe in miracles in the supernatural sense. Frankly, considering how many "miracles" people used to believe in and we know understand scientifically, everyone should be very sceptical of such claims. The Vatican itself is now incredibly wary about claiming things are miracles because they've been burned so many times in the past. They say things like "we don't know if X is a miracles, but we do know they happen". Essentially, fraud insurance.


I avoid the word altogether because if you say something is miraculous people think you mean a supernatural miracle as opposed to just using it as a word to describe something highly unlikely or not full understood.