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#91 HawkMan

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 15:26

I'm not sure what you are talking about when you say it's not easier.. it's 10 times easier. It's nicer for development too. Less waste of time and unnecessary code just to make your web app appear and work the same across browser. It's really a joy to develop for unlike for desktop.


It's also 10 times easier to JUST STICK TO THE FRICKEN STANDARD, and don't use the damn prefixes. less resources, better code, faster site, cleaner code. and far less effort.

Just because you're incapable of coding without adding in 50 fancy and completely unnecessary "cool" effects that are only supported on some browsers, doesn't make it harder, it just means you're unable to to not add in lots of unnecessary CSS code that makes your life harder.

Also you're not supposed to code for browser, you're supposed to use the standard function for checking what is supported in the browser visiting the site an activate CSS effects based on that. easy, and clean on the code and efficient. as opposed to checking for the browser and manually adding code for each browser and each version of the browser.



Also as for VRML2... err I mean, WebGL.... bwahaha. sorry that crap isn't and shouldn't be used, EVER. it makes horribly designed 100% flash sites look like user friendly interface masterpieces. and it's horrible to use for games as well. better to use an actual plugin for that, r an actual app. but hey you're completely against separate apps like flash and think html5 is the greatest best thing ever... err wait a min now...


#92 FloatingFatMan

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 15:47

That is bull**** because WebKit is open source.


Just because something is open source, doesn't automatically mean it's gods gift to mankind. Webkit has plenty of flaws.

#93 +Vykranth

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 15:49

Monopoly is really in regards to one company. If Chromium for example becomes the standard it won't be a monopoly as many companies and people contribute to it.

1st Step: Get everyone on Chromium/Webkit
2nd Step: Get it to be official standard where everyone contributes to and is tightly connected with W3C
3rd Step: Enjoy rapid innovation and progress on the web without waiting a decade for new features to trickle down and deal with different browsers that wanted to integrate and interpret the HTML/CSS/JS standards however they want.


Funny, I have a deja-vu feeling. It was 20 years ago with UNIX and all the standards like POSIX or CDE, when Sun, IBM, Digital, HP and SGI were all battling while promising a better standardized UNIX future.
I heard the same kind of arguments from developers who were working in the comfort zone of SunOS and did not want anything to do with Irix because it was different
We all know how it ended.

#94 Zlip792

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 15:53

Multiprocess can be done with any rendering engine and has nothing to do with the actual rendering engine. It's the actual program and how that is programmed that defines that. hopefully Opera decides to do it as they currently do, multi process, but wrapped inside the opera file so your task manager isn't flooded by 50 opera.exe files. god that's annoying in chrome.

Personally I much prefer a well programmed browser like opera that doesn't crash, as opposed to a browser like chrome where the crashes are separated. to not affect the whole browser.


If it is not at engine level in case of Webkit but I think Gecko is different. Where Mozilla ditched idea of E10S (electrolysis|) project and now they are doing snappy project by moving code to aysnc and from away from main thread.
Lets hope whatever we get makes web developers and users both happy.

#95 Syanide

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 16:03

This is awful news.

Well exactly.. that's the whole point.. if we had that on desktop it would 10x better than what we have now.


Just like 90% of people using IE6, right? Jesus Christ your lack of logic is hurting my brain.

#96 Jub Fequois

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 16:09

Personally I much prefer a well programmed browser like opera that doesn't crash, as opposed to a browser like chrome where the crashes are separated. to not affect the whole browser.


Spot on. ;)

#97 -Razorfold

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 18:23

Know whats funny? Boz still hasn't answered to Athenar's challenge but keeps repeating the same crap he always does.

#98 HawkMan

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 18:42

Know whats funny? Boz still hasn't answered to Athenar's challenge but keeps repeating the same crap he always does.

He hasn't answered anyone challenges and merely selectively quotes 1/10th of people's posts when he replies or just ignores them altogether.

#99 PreKe

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 19:03

So you're saying Webkit is a closed source project now? Or maybe that "It's fine because it's open source" defence doesn't work out so well in practice?


He's saying that Google doesn't own Webkit. Google can't just do whatever they want to with it.

This is awful news.


Why?

#100 HawkMan

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 19:09

He's saying that Google doesn't own Webkit. Google can't just do whatever they want to with it.


They can, and then we have WebKit fragmentation and... Square one

Again, software is not a standard. Standard is not software. Software follows standards. Standards are written for software.

#101 PreKe

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 19:20

They can, and then we have WebKit fragmentation and... Square one


They could theoretically do it, but they didn't. And so what if they forked it? They still don't own WebKit.

#102 fobban

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 19:48

Except he's completely right.

I challenge you Boz, make Chrome render a CSS3 gradient without using vendor prefixed properties, then go try in the latest versions of IE and Firefox.

If you fail to respond to this challenge, then I think we can safely say you're not interested in standards, and only want a closed, proprietary Google dictatorship.

WebKit got a patch a month ago that actually fully implements the candidate recommendation of CSS3 gradients. Since then they've also dropped the prefix.

The sad thing about CSS3 gradients is that MS still supports the old draft prefixed. Probably due to lazy developers doing HTML5+CSS+JavaScript Metro apps before the final version of Windows 8. Microsoft probably doesn't want to break their code. Question is: when the next version of Windows ship, will they still keep legacy implementations like that around to not risk breaking old apps?

Athernar, perhaps you could tell us how awesome IE10's flexbox support is?

Personally I think it's a shame Opera ditches their rendering engine. Not because I don't like Webkit, but because Presto was really strict when it came to most implementations. If you're code worked well in Opera, you could be pretty sure it worked well in most browsers.

#103 exotoxic

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 19:57

And so what if they forked it?


If all browsers used the same engine then they would all have to come to an agreement on new features and how they would be implemented. If one teams did not like it or wanted a feature others didn't, they would fork it and implement it how they wanted and you would have a mess of prefixes and features again.

#104 Javik

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 20:30

I used to be one of those "Web standards are a make and break deal" because I saw how horribly wrong Microsoft got it with IE6, but as I carried on using Opera I eventually came to realise that better standards support does not on it's own make a browser any better. Not only does Chrome have far better HTML5 support than Internet Explorer, it's being developed at a far faster rate. I've been using Webkit in Chrome for 3 years now and it hasn't let me down at all. Pretty much everyone apart from the really hardcore Microsoft shills recognise what a good rendering engine it is.

#105 -Razorfold

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 23:10

I used to be one of those "Web standards are a make and break deal" because I saw how horribly wrong Microsoft got it with IE6, but as I carried on using Opera I eventually came to realise that better standards support does not on it's own make a browser any better. Not only does Chrome have far better HTML5 support than Internet Explorer, it's being developed at a far faster rate. I've been using Webkit in Chrome for 3 years now and it hasn't let me down at all. Pretty much everyone apart from the really hardcore Microsoft shills recognise what a good rendering engine it is.

Most people aren't saying that webkit is terrible.

The reason why a lot of websites look different on Opera, IE, Firefox isn't because those browsers aren't standard compatible. It's because people are using prefixes which they shouldn't be.

There was a time when IE was developed pretty fast, and was quite an advanced browser. Then we got IE6, which when it was released wasn't as bad but since it had no competition MS stopped giving a **** about it. Making one browser engine the only engine in the world will lead to the exact same thing. Companies aren't going to put in the effort and the time to improve products when there's no competition, it's a waste of money.

I use Chromium and I have used it for a long long time now. But I don't want it to become a monopoly.

---

Another thing on a slightly different topic. Anyone remember how against HTML5 Boz was? A year ago he was all "HTML5 isn't the future, it sucks, it should just be killed off and everyone should use flash" and now in this topic he's all for it.

What's the difference? Oh a year ago it was Apple talking about web standards and how Flash doesn't have a place since WebGL is better. So naturally Boz (who hate's anything that doesn't come out Google's mouth) was all for killing HTML5 and WebGL and making Flash the only web standard.

But now since Google is pushing HTML5 and WebGL he's all for it. He hates IE because its proprietary and loves Chrome because it's open source. But then he absolutely loves Flash...which is just as proprietary (if not more) than IE. :rolleyes:



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