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'Easter' banned by elementary school principal

alabama religious diversity allowed eggs tolorance

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#61 excalpius

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:53

One thing I like about Religeous Diversity; (and so do my children)
EXTRA HOLIDAYS (or celebrations... easter, diwali, etc...)


There is no reason we can't have holidays. Adults and children need rest and play. And celebrating our lost loved ones (Halloween) or peace on Earth and goodwill towards all of our fellow men through charitable given (the secular Christmas holiday) are very worthy concepts and ideals indeed.

But when we, as supposed reasoning and rational human beings, actually BELIEVE in the kind of ignorant superstitious nonsense behind the religious propaganda versions of some holidays, that is when we do great harm to ourselves and those that believe what we say is infallible and true...like our children.

If any ADULT, raised secular and free-thinking, wants to join up with some nonsensical cult like the Scientologists, the Mormons, Christianity, Islam, etc. so be it. It's their right as adults to choose to waste their entire lives any way they want.

But to indoctrinate children in religious schools and institutions is barbaric and should be illegal. It's brainwashing, pure and simple. And the reasons all religions go after the kids is because children are genetically coded to trust their elders implicitly from a young age.

The concept that their parents might be lying to them, just to make themselves feel better, won't cross their minds until long after the damage is already done.


#62 Raze

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:54

The same people who are Atheists are okay with lying to kids about the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause. That was my point and you missed it, on purpose.

I hate how people cherry pick other people's post and don't respond to the important parts.

Denial must be nice.


Who said anything about lying? Are you sure you understand the point?

Cherry pick? So those first 2 statements of yours were unimportant, ok, if you say so.

Denial? Pot - kettle - black.

#63 Aheer.R.S.

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:56

There is no reason we can't have holidays. Adults and children need rest and play. And celebrating our lost loved ones (Halloween) or peace on Earth and goodwill towards all of our fellow men through charitable given (the secular Christmas holiday) are very worthy concepts and ideals indeed.

But when we, as supposed reasoning and rational human beings, actually BELIEVE in the kind of ignorant superstitious nonsense behind the religious propaganda versions of some holidays, that is when we do great harm to ourselves and those that believe what we say is infallible and true...like our children.

If any ADULT, raised secular and free-thinking, wants to join up with some nonsensical cult like the Scientologists, the Mormons, Christianity, Islam, etc. so be it. It's their right as adults to choose to waste their entire lives any way they want.

But to indoctrinate children in religious schools and institutions is barbaric and should be illegal. It's brainwashing, pure and simple. And the reasons all religions go after the kids is because children are genetically coded to trust their elders implicitly from a young age.

The concept that their parents might be lying to them, just to make themselves feel better, won't cross their minds until long after the damage is already done.

What's that in english?

#64 Yogurtmaster

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:14

Who said anything about lying? Are you sure you understand the point?


So, telling your own children that God isn't real but Santa and the Easter Bunny are real is fine in your book?
A lot of Atheists do this. I do find that ironic.

Cherry pick? So those first 2 statements of yours were unimportant, ok, if you say so.

Denial? Pot - kettle - black.


You never addressed them so they must have been unimportant if you can't even address them. It's not rocket science kid.

#65 excalpius

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:14

Well, here is the problem. The Easter Bunny and Santa are clearly made up figures but you don't have a problem with those.
That is insanity right there and very unreasonable.


Putting your Strawman argument aside (it means you're debating something you said, claiming I said it, but I actually didn't, so you're wasting your time and mine), the difference is that everyone knows and admits that the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus are fictitious characters.

Yet some people still think god and Jesus are real. They aren't. They are just as fictitious as Superman, Thor, Frodo, and Zeus.

Believing in something is real that isn't real, like Jesus and gods, is an actual sign of insanity btw.

Somehow the Universe was created by itself just randomly from nothing to something with fine tuning.

Who is really ignorant here?

Apparently, you are. Which you are about to prove in spades in your next sentence...

Anyone that is really intelligent without bias will tell you that there is just too much intelligence in the creation of the Universe and on this planet including the creation of DNA to be just random. It is what it is, stop trying to be in denial and make up excuses. The obvious is the obvious.


It's fascinating that what you find obvious just happens to be what you were told as a child is the nature of the universe. It has NO support with any scientific evidence whatsoever. In fact, every year, the amount we don't know about the workings of the entire universe gets smaller and smaller.

And there's no sign or evidence anyone designed anything whatsoever anywhere in the cosmos. More importantly, with what we know now about the formation and evolution of life, there's no need for any designer at all.

The truth is the only reason that you believe in something and feel it is "obvious" is because you were brainwashed to believe it as a child by probably very well-meaning adults (your parents) who wanted to feel better about their lack of knowledge about the real workings of the real universe. And they were probably brainwashed by their very well-meaning parents too.

But, guess what? Grandpa and Grandma know less about the universe than your parents do. And you've grown up with scientific advancements they could never dream of, so you know more about the real universe than your parents do. And your children will know more than you do.

So why in the world do you think they were right about something as completely unfounded and nonsensical as a mythological god?

The answer is, they weren't. They told you about the world to the best of their ability. But they were wrong. Like they were about slavery and women's rights and gay rights and...

It appears as though you look around yourself and see a world of intelligent design simply because you lack the intelligence to comprehend its workings?

Yet you trust a doctor who has studied medicine to know the workings of your own body better than you do. And you trust your accountant to know the rules of paying your taxes better than you do in order to make sure you comply with those rules. And you trust the fireman to work the fire truck better than you could because he's been trained to do that work as part of his job.

Are they also proof of an intelligent design in and of themselves? Or are they just proof that you lack the education to do those jobs or answers those questions?


So, in an effort to educate and enlighten, what would you like to know about the universe? I am uniquely qualified to answer any question you could pose.

Or would you rather believe the simple big lies your parents mistakenly told you growing up?

#66 astropheed

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:17

2+2=4
The Earth orbits the Sun
The Earth is not flat

[... and more stuff here...]


I can already tell you're not the type of person I can rationally have a debate with. I will admit that this does in some way automatically give the impression that I concede; if that's easier for you, then you may rightfully assume that.

Personally I will raise my Children to know of religion and science - as to me - to close their mind to one or the other limits their capability to determine for themselves which is true. I should point out the irony again, but I feel that it will fall upon deaf ears.

#67 excalpius

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:20

So, telling your own children that God isn't real but Santa and the Easter Bunny are real is fine in your book?
A lot of Atheists do this. I do find that ironic.



Strawman alert...with a chaser of anecdotal nonsense to boot!

Seriously, I don't know a single atheist who tells their children that Santa and the Easter Bunny are REAL. They celebrate the holidays for the day off, the fun, the festivities, and the time together as a family.

Easter happens to celebrate the coming of Spring, which mankind and indeed all living organisms have acknowledged for a billion years or so.

Santa Claus for secular, reasoning, rational people celebrates world peace and charitable giving.

Here's a simpler one for you to understand:

Superman is a fictional character, but he stands for truth and justice. I believe in these universal human concepts and see Superman as an icon.

But I know he's not real.

Jesus is about compassion, mercy, peace, and charity. Just because he's not real doesn't mean he isn't an icon that can inspire us.

#68 Raze

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:24

So, telling your own children that God isn't real but Santa and the Easter Bunny are real is fine in your book?
A lot of Atheists do this. I do find that ironic.



You never addressed them so they must have been unimportant if you can't even address them. It's not rocket science kid.


Never said a word about santa or the easter bunny being real. Why do you make these things up?

huh, what? Address your off-topic post about the state of the universe and fine tuning? And I did address the first 2 statements in your post #55. You're correct, it's not rocket science!


I agree, excalpius, well put.

#69 excalpius

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:32

I can already tell you're not the type of person I can rationally have a debate with. I will admit that this does in some way automatically give the impression that I concede; if that's easier for you, then you may rightfully assume that.

Personally I will raise my Children to know of religion and science - as to me - to close their mind to one or the other limits their capability to determine for themselves which is true. I should point out the irony again, but I feel that it will fall upon deaf ears.


If you believe than any fictional god is real, then you are not a rational person, so I agree you cannot be debated rationally. I know it sounds harsh, but coddling and tolerating people's willing ignorance of the real world around them just so they can "feel better" about the finality of death has never done the human race any good whatsoever. In fact, it has only held us back horribly and painfully for far too long.

Since you know the truth but are afraid to face it, and you're old enough to be able to Google the answers as to how the universe really works, then I can only see you as an intellectually childish person...willingly choosing to remain ignorant out of fear. Fear of losing your imagined place in the world, the love of your parents, whatever.

Because I know the way the entire universe really works, I'm not afraid. And because of that, I haven't wasted my life. I have made incredible contributions to the world (yes, even you) with my life and I will be remembered long after I return to the star dust from whence I came.

What about you? Are you waiting on a fictional afterlife to make your mark, all the while enriching the coffers of con-men and charlatans? Or are you living your life as if this was all there is?

Contributing to humanity as a whole, even in just some small meaningful way.

PS There is no irony when an ignorant student tells the teacher that she's wrong just because he hasn't yet absorbed the lesson.

#70 nub

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:34

They knew that babies came from sperm and eggs thousands of years ago?....


I don't see why that is necessary to look at animal eggs in nature and adopt it as a sign of fertility. I think the rabbit's ability to spawn like crazy speaks for itself.

#71 Aheer.R.S.

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:37

I don't see why that is necessary to look at animal eggs in nature and adopt it as a sign of fertility. I think the rabbit's ability to spawn like crazy speaks for itself.

New Beginnings.... otherwise, well put :)

#72 nub

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:40

Somehow the Universe was created by itself just randomly from nothing to something with fine tuning.

Who is really ignorant here? Anyone that is really intelligent without bias will tell you that there is just too much intelligence in the creation of the Universe and on this planet including the creation of DNA to be just random. It is what it is, stop trying to be in denial and make up excuses. The obvious is the obvious.


A. Nobody believes what you just wrote.
B. Even if you were to prove that a god exists, you have failed to prove the Christian god exists.

#73 Yogurtmaster

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:40

Putting your Strawman argument aside (it means you're debating something you said, claiming I said it, but I actually didn't, so you're wasting your time and mine), the difference is that everyone knows and admits that the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus are fictitious characters.

Yet some people still think god and Jesus are real. They aren't. They are just as fictitious as Superman, Thor, Frodo, and Zeus.

Believing in something is real that isn't real, like Jesus and gods, is an actual sign of insanity btw.


You are going to have a hard time saying that Jesus didn't exist. Most intelligent people know that he existed and was walking on this planet.
Even Academia knows that Jesus existed. That isn't even a question. The question is was he the Son of God. So, you need to be educated a little bit before anyone can have a serious conversation about this.

Somehow the Universe was created by itself just randomly from nothing to something with fine tuning.
Apparently, you are. Which you are about to prove in spades in your next sentence...


Wrong again. There is fine tuning otherwise we would not have life here and possibly on other planets too.
Life cannot exist without fine tuning, it is impossible.

It's fascinating that what you find obvious just happens to be what you were told as a child is the nature of the universe. It has NO support with any scientific evidence whatsoever. In fact, every year, the amount we don't know about the workings of the entire universe gets smaller and smaller.


Actually, this is not true. The answers from science about the universe leads to more questions. Anyone with common sense knows that the Universe can't create something without nothing and can't create nothing into a plan of something. I don't need a Bible to tell me that. The planet Earth was not created by some random process from nothing to something without a creator. It is impossible. That is magic without reason.

Reason works when there is logic involved. Reason doesn't work with magic pixie dust.


And there's no sign or evidence anyone designed anything whatsoever anywhere in the cosmos. More importantly, with what we know now about the formation and evolution of life, there's no need for any designer at all.


Again wrong. Evolution isn't magic. DNA isn't magic. The Tree of Life isn't magic. It has been designed from an intelligence that created the tree of life and DNA as a database to create life. It's reusing cells and DNA just like a programmer would to reuse code.

The truth is the only reason that you believe in something and feel it is "obvious" is because you were brainwashed to believe it as a child by probably very well-meaning adults (your parents) who wanted to feel better about their lack of knowledge about the real workings of the real universe. And they were probably brainwashed by their very well-meaning parents too.


Well this judgement doesn't make sense. I found God not from my parents but because it's my decision. So, wrong again. I follow Science and I love Science. However, trying to find out what happened from 4.54 billion years ago is an impossible task because of time and how things have drastically changed.

Look, I can swallow what everyone else thinks like you, or I can do some research and find out on my own.

But, guess what? Grandpa and Grandma know less about the universe than your parents do. And you've grown up with scientific advancements they could never dream of, so you know more about the real universe than your parents do. And your children will know more than you do.

So why in the world do you think they were right about something as completely unfounded and nonsensical as a mythological god?

The answer is, they weren't. They told you about the world to the best of their ability. But they were wrong. Like they were about slavery and women's rights and gay rights and...


You are dumb. You make huge assumptions about my parents which you are wrong. You couldn't get any more wrong. I mean stop you are embarrassing yourself.

It appears as though you look around yourself and see a world of intelligent design simply because you lack the intelligence to comprehend its workings?


Can you build a Sun in a planetary system from no material? No? But you can find out how it works right? Not the same thing. It's called reverse engineering and that isn't the same thing as building a Sun from nothing.

The rest of the post was deleted because I don't want to embarrass you further than what you have already done to yourself.

#74 astropheed

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:43

. . .


You speak with such passion. I do believe you could be a leader. Sadly, I'm not a follower, but, I do however feel you should continue to stand up for what you believe in, as I know you will.

I've never said I believed in any god, and I never said I didn't either. But you were well adapted to not make it a direct assumption so for that I applaud you.

I would only ask you stop referring to yourself as a teacher, at least to me - as you are not. And, to understand that there is no rational proof that there isn't a God as well, and in that you must be equally confrontational to the contradiction. A logical paradox; although I just know you'll find someway to circumvent that... Won't you?

#75 Yogurtmaster

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:45

A. Nobody believes what you just wrote.
B. Even if you were to prove that a god exists, you have failed to prove the Christian god exists.


A. Unfortunately, there are people who believe this.
B. I never failed to prove anything because that wasn't what I was saying. In other words READ.

I believe what I believe for many reasons, but the garbage that God doesn't exist because I said so is very weak and provides a lack of understanding of the Universe in which we live in.