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Posted

A Northeast Philadelphia couple sentenced to probation for practicing faith healing after the 2009 death of their ill toddler son are again under criminal investigation in connection with the death of their 8-month-old son Thursday.

Herbert and Catherine Schaible - members of a church that shuns medical care - were convicted of involuntary manslaughter for failing to bring their 2-year-old son to a doctor when he was sick with bacterial pneumonia. The couple had prayed over the sick child and called a funeral director when he died.

A judge ordered the Schaibles to arrange care for their seven other children by a "qualified medical practitioner." Now, with the death of another child, the Schaibles face a court hearing next week for possibly violating their parole as well as additional criminal charges.

Tasha Jamerson, a spokeswoman for the District Attorney's Office, would not discuss details of the investigation but said the terms of the Schaibles' probation were clear.

"All of the children in their care had to have regular doctor's appointments and visits," she said Friday, "and if a child was sick, they were required to consult a medical practitioner and follow their recommendations and advice to the letter."
Brandon Schaible was born last Aug. 31. It is unclear if the child had medical problems.
Around 8 p.m. Thursday, the couple called the John F. Fluehr & Sons funeral home on Cottman Avenue and said the infant had died, according to a police report.

The funeral home notified the Medical Examiner's Office, which informed police. Paramedics who responded to the Rhawn Street house pronounced the child dead at 8:35. Investigators processed the house as a crime scene, according to the report.

Homicide detectives questioned the Schaibles at Police Headquarters Friday, said Capt. James Clark of the Homicide Unit.
The couple were released pending the medical examiner's ruling on what caused the child's death, he said.
"The investigation is still in the preliminary stages," Clark said. "Once the medical examiner makes a ruling, we will take statements from the parents and confer with the District Attorney's Office to find out what, if any, charges will be brought against these parents."

No one answered the Schaibles' front door Friday night.
Bobby Hoof, a lawyer who represented Herbert Schaible, did not return calls to his office late Friday. Mythri Jayaraman, who represented Catherine Schaible, also could not be reached.

Kent Schaible died in 2009 after having pneumonia for two weeks
.
Prosecutors said the Schaibles put their belief in faith healing above the child's best interests by praying over him instead of seeking medical care.

"We tried to fight the devil, but in the end the devil won," Herbert Schaible told a city social worker investigating the child's death.

None of the children had ever gone to a doctor or received medication.
Common Pleas Court Judge Carolyn Engle Temin sentenced the Schaibles to 10 years on probation and ordered them to schedule regular medical exams for their children until they turned 18.
The couple agreed to submit to periodic checks by probation officers and to open their children's medical records as requested.

It is unclear from court records how often probation officers have visited the Schaible home.
At the trial, a social worker from the Department of Human Services, Kenneth Dixon, testified that the surviving children appeared healthy and well cared for.

The child welfare agency could not open a case on the family based on religious beliefs alone, Dixon told the court.
Since Brandon's death, the agency has removed the Schaibles' seven remaining children.
"Our job is to make sure the children are physically safe and placed in a secure environment at this point," Alicia Taylor, a DHS spokeswoman, said Friday.

At the time of Kent's death, Herbert and Catherine Schaible were members of the fundamentalist First Century Gospel Church in Juniata Park.

Herbert Schaible was a teacher at the church school. Catherine Schaible is the daughter of the school principal.
Even before Kent Schaible died, the church had come under scrutiny for the death of a child from measles and parents who prayed over their child's broken leg after he was hit by a car.

[url="http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20130420_Couple_under_investigation_for_second_child_death.html"]http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20130420_Couple_under_investigation_for_second_child_death.html[/url]

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Posted

Disgusting.

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Posted

Sterilize both morons as punishment, for a short while as a kid we were involved in a cult like that and I guarantee you it's not pretty or fun when you get sick

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Posted

[quote]
The couple were released pending the medical examiner's ruling on what caused the child's death, he said.[/quote]

Whilst I feel sorry for the child in such a tragic case, the bigger question is should medical expertise be actively forced upon citizens whos guardians deny either the need or the relevance of such practises.In doing so are the interventionists not denying those people the faith they believe in?

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Posted

Americans are religious people and thus these things are unavoidable. If only the right to practice religious was not part of the constitution, we would not have such things.

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Posted

[quote name='arachnoid' timestamp='1366497343' post='595650016']
Whilst I feel sorry for the child in such a tragic case, the bigger question is should medical expertise be actively forced upon citizens whos guardians deny either the need or the relevance of such practises.In doing so are the interventionists not denying those people the faith they believe in?
[/quote]
If they believe that the fairy in the sky will heal broken bones, then yes, someone needs to intervein. If you want to believe in god, believe that god made it necessary for varios people to learn how to heal diseases, and broken bones, not for him to actively do it. Morons.

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Posted

So you are in effect denying them their freedom to practice their faith be it Christian,Budhist or whatever because of what reason.....you believe they are wrong?
At what level does the intervention begin when they indoctrinate the children in their faith,when they deny the path of disease,when they deny technology......In their faith they have done all they can for the child by praying for its recovery in their eyes it was an act of God that denied the childs continuance to live.

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Posted

[quote name='_Alexander' timestamp='1366497878' post='595650032']
[s]Americans[/s] The world is full of religious people and thus these things are unavoidable. If only the right to practice religious was not part of the constitution, we would not have such things.
[/quote]

There fixed that for you..Plus your comment is ignorant about not having religious freedoms.

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Posted

What about the rights of the children, have they had a choice on whether or not to accept their parents beliefs? Do the parents have the right to force their beliefs on the children and possibly endanger them (which they have at least twice now)? The parents are free to practice their beliefs, but to deny healthcare to the children is wrong. IMO Maybe God gave us the ability to invent and use modern techniques to improve our lives and by rejecting that they are defying God. (if you believe in God)

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Posted

[quote name='arachnoid' timestamp='1366497343' post='595650016']
Whilst I feel sorry for the child in such a tragic case, the bigger question is should medical expertise be actively forced upon citizens whos guardians deny either the need or the relevance of such practises.In doing so are the interventionists not denying those people the faith they believe in?
[/quote]

Are you honestly suggesting that the child's right to live a normal, healthy life is less important than the parent's right to practice their religion? It sounds like you think that the children were little more than the parents property and had no rights of their own. I can't believe that anyone would seriously suggest that, especially not in 2013.

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Posted

[quote name='arachnoid' timestamp='1366497343' post='595650016']
Whilst I feel sorry for the child in such a tragic case, the bigger question is should medical expertise be actively forced upon citizens whos guardians deny either the need or the relevance of such practises.In doing so are the interventionists not denying those people the faith they believe in?
[/quote]

I see you doing this little troll bit a lot here so answer this:

The bigger question is [b]should the religious beliefs of the PARENTS be actively forced upon the CHILD who is TOO YOUNG TO CHOOSE A BELIEF and doesn't know any better?[/b]

:) Have a nice day

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Posted

[quote name='arachnoid' timestamp='1366497343' post='595650016']
Whilst I feel sorry for the child in such a tragic case, the bigger question is should medical expertise be actively forced upon citizens whos guardians deny either the need or the relevance of such practises.In doing so are the interventionists not denying those people the faith they believe in?
[/quote]

Based on my experiences I have no issues calling it child neglect, and as such should be treated like you would any case of negligence, your choice in religious views don't excuse you neglecting to protect your child

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Posted

I hope the judge locks them up and throws away the key, sick *******.

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Posted

[quote name='Raze' timestamp='1366499154' post='595650064']
What about the rights of the children, have they had a choice on whether or not to accept their parents beliefs? Do the parents have the right to force their beliefs on the children and possibly endanger them (which they have at least twice now)? The parents are free to practice their beliefs, but to deny healthcare to the children is wrong. IMO Maybe God gave us the ability to invent and use modern techniques to improve our lives and by rejecting that they are defying God. (if you believe in God)
[/quote]

You can't reason with people like that, they'll genuinely believe they were "saving" the childs soul or something.

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Posted

Add to the reasons Religion is bull****.

George Carlin had it right. Worship the Sun, you can actually see the sun. Or worship Joe Pesci.

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In honesty Nightmare D Im asking people to consider the wider picture not just jump to conclusions based on a few quoted paragraphs like many of the threads seem to do here.Yes the child is dead and yes it should not have happened if there were a possibility they could have survived but this is how their faith works.Lets take another great American institution the Mormons for example, are we to force technology upon them because we think it is a better way of life?
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[quote name='arachnoid' timestamp='1366531337' post='595650480']
In honesty Nightmare D Im asking people to consider the wider picture not just jump to conclusions based on a few quoted paragraphs like many of the threads seem to do here.Yes the child is dead and yes it should not have happened if there were a possibility they could have survived but this is how their faith works.Lets take another great American institution the Mormons for example, are we to force technology on them because we think it is a better way of life?
[/quote]

There is no wider picture. A childs life trumps any religious belief, period.
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Posted

[quote name='TechJunkie81' timestamp='1366524872' post='595650426']
Add to the reasons Religion is bull****.

George Carlin had it right. Worship the Sun, you can actually see the sun. Or worship Joe Pesci.
[/quote]
The sun damaged my eyes and I sleep through it. Moon forever! (Side note: I actually do believe in my religion but haven't gone to church in a while. And people like this are just idiots...if God gives you the tools to save yourselves and you choose not to, surprise! It doesn't work.)
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Posted

screw freedoms if it means harming children, sorry if anyone disagrees. If you honestly think religious freedom should allow harming of children, then what about if a religion promotes child sex? what about child sacrifice? You ok with those too in the name of religious freedom?

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No belief should trump the health & safety of people. period.

Anyone that believes otherwise should be removed from society so they can't harm anyone.
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Posted

where was the childrens right of religious freedom. the constitution's religious freedom goes both ways, freedom to practice religion and freedom from religion.

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[quote name='CrossCheck' timestamp='1366533618' post='595650502']
where was the childrens right of religious freedom. the constitution's religious freedom goes both ways, freedom to practice religion and freedom from religion.
[/quote]

Don't forget the child's right to actually [b]live[/b]. That trumps ALL the others.

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[quote name='arachnoid' timestamp='1366531337' post='595650480']
In honesty Nightmare D Im asking people to consider the wider picture not just jump to conclusions based on a few quoted paragraphs like many of the threads seem to do here.Yes the child is dead and yes it should not have happened if there were a possibility they could have survived but this is how their faith works.[b]Lets take another great American institution the Mormons for example, are we to force technology upon them because we think it is a better way of life[/b]?
[/quote]

What does technology have to do with Mormons. There are not amish. you do realize it was mormons who started Adobe, Silicon Graphics, Atari, Word Prefect and invented the Invented the television and

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[quote name='arachnoid' timestamp='1366531337' post='595650480']
In honesty Nightmare D Im asking people to consider the wider picture not just jump to conclusions based on a few quoted paragraphs like many of the threads seem to do here.Yes the child is dead and yes it should not have happened if there were a possibility they could have survived but this is how their faith works.Lets take another great American institution the Mormons for example, are we to force technology upon them because we think it is a better way of life?
[/quote]
The parents have a duty of care to protect the child until it is of an age whereby its legally declared an adult and can protect itself. If I made up a religion whereby my beliefs are such that I can beat the the child black and blue every day to appease my deity then that's ok with you?

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[quote name='CrossCheck' timestamp='1366534365' post='595650512']
What does technology have to do with Mormons. There are not amish. you do realize it was mormons who started Adobe, Silicon Graphics, Atari, Word Prefect and invented the Invented the television and
[/quote]

Umm, mormons didn't invent the TV, that was invented in England by John Logie Baird, an atheist.

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