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#1 FlintyV

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 23:41

Guardian - The National Security Agency is currently collecting the telephone records of millions of US customers of Verizon, one of America's largest telecoms providers, under a top secret court order issued in April.

The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing.

The secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Fisa) granted the order to the FBI on April 25, giving the government unlimited authority to obtain the data for a specified three-month period ending on July 19.

Source & Court order

First spying on the press and now this.It's also making the front page of the print edition of the Guardian.


#2 COKid

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 00:04

I couldn't care less. I've got nothing to hide, and if prevents a terrorist attack, go for it. And I'll let you in on a little secret: This has been going on for many, many years.

But I'm sure some folks, namely the ACLU nutjobs, will freak out when they read this. Oh well, whatever. I guess I'm too busy living a great life to be paranoid about it. Like I said, if it helps protect us, I'm all for it. :punk:

Remember, the Tsarnaev brothers were in the US. If a keyword scan of phone records can nip the next attack in the bud, good. Anyway, it's not like some person is going to be listening to all of our phone conversations. It's computerized and probably only looking for certain words/phrases.

So yeah, I expect my government to do all it can to protect its citizenry. If we were attacked again and it came out later that there were phone calls detailing the attack, people would be bitching that the government didn't do enough.

Which would you prefer, OP? I'll take the safer, and yes, slightly more intrusive, approach. Frankly, part of staying alive from now on will mean making some sacrifices to our freedoms. It's called evolving to the current situation. Get used to it because the world will probably never go back to the way it used to be. The days of innocence are long gone. America has learned that the hard way.

#3 OP FlintyV

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 00:20

I couldn't care less. I've got nothing to hide, and if prevents a terrorist attack, go for it. And I'll tell you a little secret: This has been going on for many, many years.

But I'm sure some folks will freak out when they read this. Oh well, whatever. I guess I'm too busy living a great life to be paranoid about Big Brother. Like I said, if it helps protect us, I'm all for it. :punk:

Remember, the Tsarnaev brothers were in the US. If a keyword scan of phone records can nip the next attack in the bud, good. Anyway, it's not like some person is going to be listening to all of our phone conversations. It's all computerized and probably only looking for certain words/phrases.

So yeah, I expect my government to do all it can to protect its citizenry. If we were attacked again and it came out later that there were phone calls detailing the attack, people would be bitching that the government didn't do enough.

Which would you prefer, OP? I'll take the safer, and yes, slightly more intrusive, approach. Part of staying safer from now on will mean making some sacrifices to our freedoms. Get used to it because the world will never go back to the way it used to be. The days of innocence are long gone.


It doesn't contain any content of messages just phone numbers and locations of them so I'm not sure how you think it'll stop terrorism and they're daily reports.

#4 xendrome

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 00:22

This has been going on since at least the early 70s, it's pretty common knowledge. Also most Long Distance provider NOCs have some form of NSA equipment housed there that monitor all calls for specific key words/patterns and queue them up for review if they meet specific criteria.

#5 OP FlintyV

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 00:39

Guess I just wouldn't be as fine living with such an Orwellian gov that some seem to be able to do. I value my privacy I guess.

#6 xendrome

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 00:47

Guess I just wouldn't be as fine living with such an Orwellian gov that some seem to be able to do. I value my privacy I guess.


It's either that, or allow the bad guys to operate untouched by using digital infrastructure to their own advantage.

#7 +Tech Greek

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:00

I have no problem with pe

I couldn't care less. I've got nothing to hide, and if prevents a terrorist attack, go for it. And I'll let you in on a little secret: This has been going on for many, many years.

But I'm sure some folks, namely the ACLU nutjobs, will freak out when they read this. Oh well, whatever. I guess I'm too busy living a great life to be paranoid about it. Like I said, if it helps protect us, I'm all for it. :punk:

Remember, the Tsarnaev brothers were in the US. If a keyword scan of phone records can nip the next attack in the bud, good. Anyway, it's not like some person is going to be listening to all of our phone conversations. It's computerized and probably only looking for certain words/phrases.

So yeah, I expect my government to do all it can to protect its citizenry. If we were attacked again and it came out later that there were phone calls detailing the attack, people would be bitching that the government didn't do enough.

Which would you prefer, OP? I'll take the safer, and yes, slightly more intrusive, approach. Frankly, part of staying alive from now on will mean making some sacrifices to our freedoms. It's called evolving to the current situation. Get used to it because the world will probably never go back to the way it used to be. The days of innocence are long gone. America has learned that the hard way.


I have nothing to hide but I still don't want someone listening in to my phone call. It starts off as anti-terrorism and then it ends up with being a tool for anything else that could make them money.

I have more anger towards the fact the American People have no say so what-so-ever in this entire debacle along with 90% of other political changes. We're the puppets and the government is the puppet master. Everything is always done in closed door meetings instead of letting the people vote.

#8 OP FlintyV

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:01

It's either that, or allow the bad guys to operate untouched by using digital infrastructure to their own advantage.


Or they could just encrypt their communication and render the whole thing useless? I'd love to know if it's actually caught any terrorism acts but I guess that's hard to come by.

#9 Buttus

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:24

I couldn't care less. I've got nothing to hide, and if prevents a terrorist attack, go for it. And I'll let you in on a little secret: This has been going on for many, many years.

But I'm sure some folks, namely the ACLU nutjobs, will freak out when they read this. Oh well, whatever. I guess I'm too busy living a great life to be paranoid about it. Like I said, if it helps protect us, I'm all for it. :punk:

Remember, the Tsarnaev brothers were in the US. If a keyword scan of phone records can nip the next attack in the bud, good. Anyway, it's not like some person is going to be listening to all of our phone conversations. It's computerized and probably only looking for certain words/phrases.

So yeah, I expect my government to do all it can to protect its citizenry. If we were attacked again and it came out later that there were phone calls detailing the attack, people would be bitching that the government didn't do enough.

Which would you prefer, OP? I'll take the safer, and yes, slightly more intrusive, approach. Frankly, part of staying alive from now on will mean making some sacrifices to our freedoms. It's called evolving to the current situation. Get used to it because the world will probably never go back to the way it used to be. The days of innocence are long gone. America has learned that the hard way.


the terrorists have won.... *sigh*

#10 chrisj1968

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:55

I couldn't care less. I've got nothing to hide, and if prevents a terrorist attack, go for it. And I'll let you in on a little secret: This has been going on for many, many years.

But I'm sure some folks, namely the ACLU nutjobs, will freak out when they read this. Oh well, whatever. I guess I'm too busy living a great life to be paranoid about it. Like I said, if it helps protect us, I'm all for it. :punk:

Remember, the Tsarnaev brothers were in the US. If a keyword scan of phone records can nip the next attack in the bud, good. Anyway, it's not like some person is going to be listening to all of our phone conversations. It's computerized and probably only looking for certain words/phrases.

So yeah, I expect my government to do all it can to protect its citizenry. If we were attacked again and it came out later that there were phone calls detailing the attack, people would be bitching that the government didn't do enough.

Which would you prefer, OP? I'll take the safer, and yes, slightly more intrusive, approach. Frankly, part of staying alive from now on will mean making some sacrifices to our freedoms. It's called evolving to the current situation. Get used to it because the world will probably never go back to the way it used to be. The days of innocence are long gone. America has learned that the hard way.


not a matter of you having NOTHING to hide but, everything to do with violating your privacy. I get this sinking suspicion with the IRS debacle, NSA building a huge data center to store everything they collect on us http://www.wired.com..._nsadatacenter/

William binney used to work for the NSA, and created an algorithm used for spying on OTHER nations. they use his coding to create a system to spy on us all. hence the facility in the link above



we all deserve privacy and to live in a relatively private life

#11 Growled

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:53

I have nothing to worry about. I use AT&T and they can't even remember their own numbers, much less mine.

#12 DocM

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 05:42

I have nothing to worry about. I use AT&T and they can't even remember their own numbers, much less mine.


Really?

Room 641A, aka the SG3 (Secure Group 3) Secure Room, is in the SBC Communications building in San Francisco. It's the location of the NSA backbone intercept system for AT&T. An Electronic Frontier Foundation lawsuit, Hepting v AT&T, failed in Federal court.

On the international front, the US is a member of an organization known as AUSCANNZUKUS (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the UK and the US, aka "Five Eyes"), which runs a combined signals intelligence (SIGINT) program known externally as ECHELON.

Five Eyes also shares information with ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations - Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore, the Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam, Myanmar, Brunei and Laos), France's DGSE (Directorate-General for External Security), NATO members and other national SIGINT agencies.

#13 XerXis

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 06:01

Really?

Room 641A, aka the SG3 (Secure Group 3) Secure Room, is in the SBC Communications building in San Francisco. It's the location of the NSA backbone intercept system for AT&T. An Electronic Frontier Foundation lawsuit, Hepting v AT&T, failed in Federal court.

On the international front, the US is a member of an organization known as AUSCANNZUKUS (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the UK and the US, aka "Five Eyes"), which runs a combined signals intelligence (SIGINT) program known externally as ECHELON.

Five Eyes also shares information with ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations - Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore, the Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam, Myanmar, Brunei and Laos), France's DGSE (Directorate-General for External Security), NATO members and other national SIGINT agencies.


and yet they still can't prevent two lunatics dropping bombs in the middle of the boston marathon. Problem is, you will never see a report about the effectivness of such programs

#14 ramesees

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:15

and yet they still can't prevent two lunatics dropping bombs in the middle of the boston marathon. Problem is, you will never see a report about the effectivness of such programs


This will get down-voted to hell and back, but can you consider for one moment the possibility that the attacks were allowed to happen to further the agenda of more and increasingly pervasive surveillance against the population ? The reasons are obvious - tighter and more control of the population by those in power for their own ends.

(From Security agencies / Government)
"Look, the bombers were using the phone network to communicate, we must increase our monitoring in real time of the phones everywhere, just in case someone else is planning such an attack"

(Population)
"Yes please protect us, do whatever you want, we have nothing to hide, we're good citizens, please stop these evil terrorists etc....."

And so the story goes - more control for the powerful, plenty of derision by those that cant see such plans against those that can (nutjob, tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy wacko etc...) and so we take another step into fascism.

Same goes with clamping down the internet for the same reasons - all about ultimate control at the end of the day. Cant have the little people subverting their authority now can we ?

#15 ramesees

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:51

This will get down-voted to hell and back, but can you consider for one moment the possibility that the attacks were allowed to happen to further the agenda of more and increasingly pervasive surveillance against the population ? The reasons are obvious - tighter and more control of the population by those in power for their own ends.

(From Security agencies / Government)
"Look, the bombers were using the phone network to communicate, we must increase our monitoring in real time of the phones everywhere, just in case someone else is planning such an attack"

(Population)
"Yes please protect us, do whatever you want, we have nothing to hide, we're good citizens, please stop these evil terrorists etc....."

And so the story goes - more control for the powerful, plenty of derision by those that cant see such plans against those that can (nutjob, tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy wacko etc...) and so we take another step into fascism.

Same goes with clamping down the internet for the same reasons - all about ultimate control at the end of the day. Cant have the little people subverting their authority now can we ?