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Xbox One 50Hz TV signal judder explained


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#1 SnoopZ

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 15:21

I have complained about my TV signal pausing for a split second or juddering especially when panning across the screen in a previous thread, well it looks like the issue is to do with the 50Hz UK/Europe TV system as the Xbox outputs in 60Hz, all we can do is hope that MS pull their finger out and fix this nasty issue for us Europeans asap!

 

http://www.hdtvtest....01311233468.htm

 

 

 

Microsoft’s Xbox One next-generation console launched to great fanfare yesterday, with 1 million units sold within 24 hours. One of the most heavily advertised features of the Xbox One is its ability to integrate live TV feed from your set-top box, be it terrestrial (Freeview HD), satellite (Freesat or Sky) or cable (Virgin Media) broadcast. However, since receiving their consoles yesterday, a number of British owners have complained about the TV integration feature being broken, due to the introduction of judder with 50Hz content.



#2 +Audioboxer

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 15:25

Once again more proof that their TV TV TV approach was aimed at America.



#3 Mandosis

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 15:33

Once again more proof that their TV TV TV approach was aimed at America.

With something like that you kind of have to start somewhere. Its not easy to design a system like that so it can work everywhere in the world. I am sure they will have this issue patched in a week or so.



#4 Ambroos

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 15:38

With something like that you kind of have to start somewhere. Its not easy to design a system like that so it can work everywhere in the world. I am sure they will have this issue patched in a week or so.

 

Thing is, they can't, not properly. They'll either have to make the Xbox output at 50Hz or come up with some shady interpolation system that adjusts the 50Hz to 60Hz. I can't really see them do either since it would affect the whole Xbox UI. And then what if you connect something that outputs at 24Hz to the Xbox? Have it run at 24Hz or 48Hz too? Let the Xbox switch all the time based on what it's getting through the input?

 

It's just not a good idea in general, the whole passthrough thing, unless you actually pass through the original signal. My XBMC device dynamically switches output refresh rate based on the content that's playing. Sometimes it's 24Hz, sometimes it's 25Hz, 50Hz or 60Hz. By having it go through the Xbox everything would look horrible since it'd always introduce judder in everything but the 60Hz output.

 

If you ask me the whole Xbox TV integration stuff is a half-assed solution for a problem that didn't exist.



#5 kaotic

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 15:42

Once again more proof that their TV TV TV approach was aimed at America.

 

So...



#6 Ambroos

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 15:46

So...

 

It's something typical for Microsoft. They offer all services in the US, some in the UK too and if you go anywhere else (like mainland Europe, Belgium, where I live) you just lose out. On everything. And they delay stuff, other stuff isn't available, badly localized, ... And that's every consumer-oriented Microsoft division that does this.



#7 elangab

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 15:54

WOW, what a surprise... Europe is using 50Hz system.... Who knew ? It's not like they had lots of money to test things out... 

 

I love MS, I love Xbox, but I agree that this TV stuff is pointless, unless you're an American. Even in the USA I'm not sure who will use it, after few days of playing with it.

Old people won't get an Xbox, young people pirate or stream. Who's in the market for Cable TV + Xbox ?



#8 +Nik L

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 15:59

With something like that you kind of have to start somewhere

Of course you do, but you find out that Europe uses a different frequency in the design stage, NOT after launch.
 

Once again more proof that their TV TV TV approach was aimed at America.

So...

And this is why the rest of the world tends to feel America has an arrogant, uninformed population.

#9 OP SnoopZ

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 16:07

I managed to stop the panning judder mostly by turning OFF 'FILM AUTO 1' in my Sony TVs settings, but this doesn't stop my main problem where the whole TV picture can randomly freeze for a split second or in worst case i was getting a message on the screen saying the Xbox has lost the TV signal.



#10 ozgeek

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 16:09

It's something typical for Microsoft. They offer all services in the US, some in the UK too and if you go anywhere else (like mainland Europe, Belgium, where I live) you just lose out. On everything. And they delay stuff, other stuff isn't available, badly localized, ... And that's every consumer-oriented Microsoft division that does this.

 

Told ya.

 

Microsoft is known to change things all the time. That's why I'm stopping buying anything from Microsoft. They change too much that products that i buy become useless as time goes. They create and then kill off products or services. Should have kept it as a beta rather than release it fully. GFWL is an example of this. They are forcing devs to waste time reprogramming their games so that it works on Steam while some other devs will not change causing some games to become digital coasters on my steam account.

 

What's happening with Live?

Also look at the Xbox 360 original dashboard. Now they changed it to something different than what was originally shipped thus giving people different experiences about the 360.

 

they just need to slow down and think about what they are releasing.



#11 KingCracker

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 16:12

It's something typical for Microsoft. They offer all services in the US, some in the UK too and if you go anywhere else (like mainland Europe, Belgium, where I live) you just lose out. On everything. And they delay stuff, other stuff isn't available, badly localized, ... And that's every consumer-oriented Microsoft division that does this.

Sucks for you.



#12 seta-san

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 16:12

back in the day between NTSC and PAL you could make an arguement for 50hz. when we went to digital signals and HDTV it should have been standardized.



#13 trooper11

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 16:15

Well I think the best thing that can be done is to complain to MS so that they know people want this fixed. I don't think MS wants to ignore these issues if they can do something about it.

I really don't think this is impossible to fix either. You could have a software check that adjusts the Hz based on the 'app' you launch. So when you launch TV, it switches the Hz. When you switch to the One Guide or another X1 app/dash, you switch it back to 60hz.

You can do this on the pc now, even in windows 8, which is what the X1's main OS is based on.

As far as MS not catering to regions outside the US, I think MS made it very clear that while all of their early announcements were US focused, they had plans to get proper support spread to all regions the X1 is released in. They also made the point months ago that unfortunately that would not be in place at launch. Heck, they even reduced the number of regions they would launch in thanks to localization tied to voice commands not being ready. They haven't finalized deals across Europe to add support for things like OTA or the various cable services that they have said they will support.

It sucks for people in Europe that want to take advantage of those tv features and I hope MS keeps us updated on a timetable for rolling out proper European support. I think if they do that and respond properly to issues like this, you guys will feel better about it. If they don't, then there is more reason to complain.

The 'TV,TV,TV' mantra that people like to mock isn't just about hooking up cable boxes, its about making it easier to get to tv-like content (such as the OneGuide managing all your streaming content, not just a cable box) and augmenting the traditional tv experience that many people still access.

#14 trooper11

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 16:20

What's happening with Live?
Also look at the Xbox 360 original dashboard. Now they changed it to something different than what was originally shipped thus giving people different experiences about the 360.
 
they just need to slow down and think about what they are releasing.


I'm not sure what is wrong with changing the UI over time to adapt to new features or services. That's like saying Software makers should refrain from improving over time in both ui and functions.

Of course, if you felt the launch UI for the 360 was perfect, then I understand why you would say stick with that.

#15 trooper11

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 16:24

Once again more proof that their TV TV TV approach was aimed at America.



I'm really wondering where you guys have been on this. MS themselves tried to prepare people outside the US for the fact that European support for traditional tv services would not make it at launch and that they would roll that out as soon as they could over the coming year.

The issues brought up here is something they need to address and I hope people are directly reporting this to MS and not just sounding off here. If you don't complain to MS or Sony when an issue comes up, its much hard to get them to do something about it.