Xbox One 50Hz TV signal judder explained

[SnoopZ]

Also make sure to check for that info I mentioned earlier in the thread.

I did look at that and yes some in the US have seen the issue. That changes everything.

If its not related to the refresh rate, then this is definitely a bug and not tied to MS' delayed TV rollout for Europe. That should also mean that MS is working on a fix. I hope you have talked to MS directly about your issue.

I had been talking to a friend that has seen some freezing, but its when trying to view his htpc via the X1, not a cable box. Its definitely not a refresh rate issue.

Not everyone is having an issue and it seems to possibly be an hdcp/edid issue. Basically, the X1 is not properly identifying the device running to it and that leads to a loop of both devices checking each other over and over, resulting in freezing. It could also be related to the audio pass through portion. The X1 is using a 'beta' audio driver to support surround sound coming from your cable box/device. MS remarked that it was in beta because they discovered some cable boxes not playing nice with the X1 when outputting surround sound. That driver is unchecked by default in the settings section, but can be enabled.

Ok i have messed around with things and i still have the problem which makes watching TV unusable through the console, i haven't contacted MS yet as i wanted things to settle down first and give them a chance to fix this issue with a possible update.

 

Things i have tried:

 

Snapping an app while watching TV = picture still freezes

 

Swapping HDMI cables around = Picture still freezes

 

Turning off 'Instant On' = Picture still freezes

 

Changing my cable box to 720P output = Picture still freezes

 

Swearing at it = Picture still freezes

[GotBored]

Ok i have messed around with things and i still have the problem which makes watching TV unusable through the console, i haven't contacted MS yet as i wanted things to settle down first and give them a chance to fix this issue with a possible update.

 

Things i have tried:

 

Snapping an app while watching TV = picture still freezes

 

Swapping HDMI cables around = Picture still freezes

 

Turning off 'Instant On' = Picture still freezes

 

Changing my cable box to 720P output = Picture still freezes

 

Swearing at it = Picture still freezes

 

Just call Microsoft, it could be a lemon and you'll be covered under warranty.

[trooper11]

Ok i have messed around with things and i still have the problem which makes watching TV unusable through the console, i haven't contacted MS yet as i wanted things to settle down first and give them a chance to fix this issue with a possible update.

 

Things i have tried:

 

Snapping an app while watching TV = picture still freezes

 

Swapping HDMI cables around = Picture still freezes

 

Turning off 'Instant On' = Picture still freezes

 

Changing my cable box to 720P output = Picture still freezes

 

Swearing at it = Picture still freezes

Go into your X1 settings and check to see if its properly seeing the make and model of your tv and cable box.

I know you mentioned that your box was outputting stereo audio, but can you actually control the audio format that the the box pushes out? If so, I would make sure the setting is anything but DTS/Dolby Digital. Then, on the X1, there is a setting we can check.

The reason I'm asking you this is because some people that have had issues with freezing here in the US have narrowed it down to:

1. not properly registering their tv/cable box/receiver within the X1

2. the X1 not liking the audio format that the device is sending to it (Dolby Digital mostly)

-there is a setting that is off by default to enable Dolby Digital surround support via the hdmi-in (using a driver that is in beta)

[SnoopZ]

Go into your X1 settings and check to see if its properly seeing the make and model of your tv and cable box.

I know you mentioned that your box was outputting stereo audio, but can you actually control the audio format that the the box pushes out? If so, I would make sure the setting is anything but DTS/Dolby Digital. Then, on the X1, there is a setting we can check.

The reason I'm asking you this is because some people that have had issues with freezing here in the US have narrowed it down to:

1. not properly registering their tv/cable box/receiver within the X1

2. the X1 not liking the audio format that the device is sending to it (Dolby Digital mostly)

-there is a setting that is off by default to enable Dolby Digital surround support via the hdmi-in (using a driver that is in beta)

Already checked the TV is set right on the x1.

In the UK we don't gave an option to select which cable box yet so can't change anything there.

The sound is set correctly on my cable box as I only use normal stereo.

Not sure what else I can try, is there a hard reset option on the x1? Although I don't want to have to download everything again.

[testman]

back in the day between NTSC and PAL you could make an arguement for 50hz. when we went to digital signals and HDTV it should have been standardized.

It's probably been answered already in this 9-page thread but the likely reason why is because all Europe's back content (that's sitting on tape and even the digital stuff from before HDMI was standardised) is at 50Hz. If they created an HDMI design that insisted on 60Hz, then all old content would have to be "converted" or "interpolated" which would have made it look less than optimal (although probably not much these days considering US-created footage looks fine on our 50Hz broadcasts (because they would have been converted already) but still...

The Xbox feature of "pass-through" wasn't really thought out well. If it was full-screen then it'd be fine because the Xbox could simply switch from 60Hz to 50Hz but because the entire console setup (games, UI, etc.) runs at 60Hz for all regions, having some sort of picture-in-picture pass-through feature means that the main UI will keep on running in 60Hz and the picture being passed through will have to be "converted" on-the-fly and it will look shoddy (remember this is a ?500 console, not a ?10,000+ industrial-standard Hz converter that they use in the media industry).

[vcfan]

(remember this is a ?500 console, not a ?10,000+ industrial-standard Hz converter that they use in the media industry).

lol

[The Gamer]

It's something typical for Microsoft. They offer all services in the US, some in the UK too and if you go anywhere else (like mainland Europe, Belgium, where I live) you just lose out. On everything. And they delay stuff, other stuff isn't available, badly localized, ... And that's every consumer-oriented Microsoft division that does this.

Canada here. Can also confirm losing out. Possibly not as much as Europe, but everyone is secondary to the U.S.

[trooper11]

Already checked the TV is set right on the x1.

In the UK we don't gave an option to select which cable box yet so can't change anything there.

The sound is set correctly on my cable box as I only use normal stereo.

Not sure what else I can try, is there a hard reset option on the x1? Although I don't want to have to download everything again.

But does your cable box tell you how that stereo audio is being pushed out? Sometimes it will list the actual format (Dolby Digital, AC-3, MP3, etc)

If you go into the tv settings on the X1 and then troubleshooting, you will see an unchecked box next to Surround sound input support (beta). I don't think this will affect anything since your box is only pushing stereo, but check the box and try it again. If it doesn't help, uncheck that box again.

Also, check the X1 'Display' settings. See if its set to output at 24bits and not say 30 or 36 bits. Also, what audio and video (1080p or 720p) format is it set to for output? If you wanted to try something else, you could change your cable box to 720p and then also change the X1 output to 720p and see if the behavior changes.

There is a reset for the TV settings. Its located in the troubleshooting section of the TV & OneGuide menu. You could try this as a last resort. You can also do a factory reset of the entire system under the 'System' menu in settings, although I don't think doing that is worth it.

We are definitely in long shot territory here, but these are possible causes of freezing video.

[HawkMan]

Canada here. Can also confirm losing out. Possibly not as much as Europe, but everyone is secondary to the U.S.

 

In Norway we have 1 terrestrial provider, 2 major satellite providers and 2 or 3 major cable providers, one of which provides content and tuners for locally owned cable networks. I'm not sure if there's one or two fiber tv providers. (well some of the cable providers also provide over hybrid fiber but that's not exactly the same).

 

this could probably be somewhat manageable. BUT all of these are more or less exclusive to Norway, the swedes right next to us, have the same amount, and a few more unique providers of their own, they even have multiple terrestrial providers I believe. 

 

So where as the US has a few cable providers, probably one terrestrial and I dunno hw many satellite providers. Europe has at least 5+ providers for each country, all unique to the country. That's an order of magnitude more providers and, in this case more importantly, tv boxes than the US. This is also why digital music and movie services and streaming services are so hard here. hundreds of companies already have and buy exclusive licenses in every little country. 

[SnoopZ]

But does your cable box tell you how that stereo audio is being pushed out? Sometimes it will list the actual format (Dolby Digital, AC-3, MP3, etc)

If you go into the tv settings on the X1 and then troubleshooting, you will see an unchecked box next to Surround sound input support (beta). I don't think this will affect anything since your box is only pushing stereo, but check the box and try it again. If it doesn't help, uncheck that box again.

Also, check the X1 'Display' settings. See if its set to output at 24bits and not say 30 or 36 bits. Also, what audio and video (1080p or 720p) format is it set to for output? If you wanted to try something else, you could change your cable box to 720p and then also change the X1 output to 720p and see if the behavior changes.

There is a reset for the TV settings. Its located in the troubleshooting section of the TV & OneGuide menu. You could try this as a last resort. You can also do a factory reset of the entire system under the 'System' menu in settings, although I don't think doing that is worth it.

We are definitely in long shot territory here, but these are possible causes of freezing video.

There isn't anything telling me what the sound is on my cable box other than a box to select if I had a separate sound system which I don't.

I will test the beta sound idea tomorrow.

I have previously checked and tested all your other suggestions, thanks for finding the time to come up with ideas though.

[trooper11]

There isn't anything telling me what the sound is on my cable box other than a box to select if I had a separate sound system which I don't.

I will test the beta sound idea tomorrow.

I have previously checked and tested all your other suggestions, thanks for finding the time to come up with ideas though.

Alright, no problem, just seeing what might be helpful.

so you already tried setting your cable box to 720 AND setting your X1 to 720 output?

[SnoopZ]

Alright, no problem, just seeing what might be helpful.

so you already tried setting your cable box to 720 AND setting your X1 to 720 output?

Yes already tried that, tomorrow i will have another go with that beta idea and also i may turn 'auto film 1' mode back on and see what happens, then i will give up but keep a look out for news on this issue, then i can decide when to contact MS as i fear if i do it too soon i will be given the cold shoulder......ie TV is not supported in Europe at launch.

[spudtrooper]

Disclaimer: I'm an Xbox Elite Team member for Microsoft Belgium, but I'm not blindly defending the Xbox One, but just explaining what's going on, and what to expect going forward. 

 

It's pretty bad you have to qualify this..

 

People have their pitch forks out for MS on this one..

[trooper11]

Yes already tried that, tomorrow i will have another go with that beta idea and also i may turn 'auto film 1' mode back on and see what happens, then i will give up but keep a look out for news on this issue, then i can decide when to contact MS as i fear if i do it too soon i will be given the cold shoulder......ie TV is not supported in Europe at launch.

That sounds like a good plan.

Now just so I'm clear, when this whole thing started, didn't you say that the freezing issue was much less pronounced? If so, do you remember when it got worse?

[SnoopZ]

That sounds like a good plan.

Now just so I'm clear, when this whole thing started, didn't you say that the freezing issue was much less pronounced? If so, do you remember when it got worse?

Yes it was very watchable over the weekend and got far far worse yesterday and today..........very strange.

 

Anyway Eurogamer have picked up on the judder issue now too which i am thinking is still my problem although it is affecting me worse for some reason.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-25-xbox-one-tv-integration-suffers-noticeable-judder-in-uk

[trooper11]

Yes it was very watchable over the weekend and got far far worse yesterday and today..........very strange.

 

Anyway Eurogamer have picked up on the judder issue now too which i am thinking is still my problem although it is affecting me worse for some reason.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-25-xbox-one-tv-integration-suffers-noticeable-judder-in-uk

That's the part that puzzles me.

How in the world does it get worse? Its a constant thing, either its always bad or not at all. The fact that it got progressively worse makes me think this is not just an issue of 50hz vs 60hz. We are missing a variable I think.

Plus, you said the judder issue is gone for you, only the freezing issue remains. Strange stuff. I'm interested in hearing back from MikeChipshop since he has seen with his own eyes, a setup using a new Sky Box that has no visible judder and no freezing. That could provide us with some answers.

[SnoopZ]

Yes the judder went when i turned off Auto Film 1 in my Sony TV settings, so i am still scratching my head, but in alot of threads people say they're suffering from both.

[Torolol]

Xbone that sold to non-U.S/japs should've sticker saying that non-U.S consumer must use the xbone device with a U.S compliant TV.

[trooper11]

Yes the judder went when i turned off Auto Film 1 in my Sony TV settings, so i am still scratching my head, but in alot of threads people say they're suffering from both.

Very strange.

I know you said you didn't want to contact MS yet, but I really don't see the harm in it. They need to hear from anyone directly affected and I think the more report it, the quicker MS will respond.

You can also contact them again later if needed. I just think you should contact MS through multiple channels and get some info from them.

 

 

Xbone that sold to non-U.S/japs should've sticker saying that non-U.S consumer must use the xbone device with a U.S compliant TV.

Dude, at least get your silly jokes right: U.S. compliant cable box, not TV :laugh:

[SnoopZ]

There isn't anything telling me what the sound is on my cable box other than a box to select if I had a separate sound system which I don't.

I will test the beta sound idea tomorrow.

I have previously checked and tested all your other suggestions, thanks for finding the time to come up with ideas though.

Well this is very strange, I just thought I would plug the cable box in through the x1 just to see how bad it is as I go to bed and the damn thing seems to work perfectly! And I haven't changed any settings!?!?

I have even tried turn everything off again and on in different orders and not once has it frozen, not sure what to make of this but will report back tomorrow evening if it still hasn't gone ###### up again!

[trooper11]

Well this is very strange, I just thought I would plug the cable box in through the x1 just to see how bad it is as I go to bed and the damn thing seems to work perfectly! And I haven't changed any settings!?!?

I have even tried turn everything off again and on in different orders and not once has it frozen, not sure what to make of this but will report back tomorrow evening if it still hasn't gone ###### up again!

:s  ok that is weird.

 

This is not a 50hz vs 60hz issue.  You would not be getting this behavior if that was the problem.

 

It would be awesome if it just worked now.  Then maybe you can retrace your steps to figure out if anything you did fixed it.

 

I will note that people that were running into the occasional freezing issue when plugging in a pc to use media center on the X1 found that simply unplugging and replugging the hdmi cable would fix the problem.  If it turns out to be the fix for you as well, this points to an hdmi handshake or hdcp issue, not a refresh rate issue.

[SnoopZ]

:s ok that is weird.

This is not a 50hz vs 60hz issue. You would not be getting this behavior if that was the problem.

It would be awesome if it just worked now. Then maybe you can retrace your steps to figure out if anything you did fixed it.

I will note that people that were running into the occasional freezing issue when plugging in a pc to use media center on the X1 found that simply unplugging and replugging the hdmi cable would fix the problem. If it turns out to be the fix for you as well, this points to an hdmi handshake or hdcp issue, not a refresh rate issue.

All I did was take the cable box HDMI lead from the back of the TV and plugged it into the Xbox HDMI in, then said Xbox on, then when that was fully on switched the cable box on, normally I always got a freeze in the first second but I never got it this time. I have tried to break it all again by switching things off in different orders but it won't break, I don't plan on pulling the HDMI cable though.

Will report back tomorrow, maybe my house heating was making it freeze as it is cold now! Lol

[Shiranui]

I thought digital broadcasts and HDTV did away with all this nonsense?

[Ambroos]

I thought digital broadcasts and HDTV did away with all this nonsense?

Nope. There's a difference in framerate used and it's not going anywhere anytime soon.

[Gerowen]

That seems like a pretty basic thing to overlook.  Wonder why they didn't realize they needed to account for different refresh rates.