Xbox One 50Hz TV signal judder explained

[neo158]

We've got 3 LCD TVs, two are large ('expensive') TVs with loads of inputs, neither work with a 360 AT ALL using the HDMI port on any setting, the TVs claim to be HD - they are not.

On the other hand, the other is a small cheap tesco TV, works FINE with the 360 using HDMI.

 

There's game creators in the UK, they'll most probably have been using PAL development systems, if they were having problems I think they'd have notified MS, and I've heard no huge outcries about it in the media so I'm still sticking with the problem being your TV.

 

If you actually looked into the issue then you would know that the problem isn't EU TVs, they can handle 50 and 60Hz mode without a problem. The problem isn't the Xbox One as the TV handles the 60Hz input from the Xbox One just fine. The problem is the 50Hz input from EU STBs causing the console to have to create 10 frames per second out of nothing.

 

Games developers wouldn't hit this problem as they won't be watching TV on the development systems!!

[trooper11]

Yes it went to the X1 dashboard when i turned it all on OR full screen TV i can't remember but the X1 was on fully as i have it set to turn off after 6hrs.

 

 

Yeah that makes me think the X1 is failing to resync with the cable box or the tv and causing the issue to show up.

 

Maybe you can do a test later to leave them off longer and see if it happens again.  Its even possible that it wont happen every time you turn them off for a few hours.

[SnoopZ]

Yeah that makes me think the X1 is failing to resync with the cable box or the tv and causing the issue to show up.

 

Maybe you can do a test later to leave them off longer and see if it happens again.  Its even possible that it wont happen every time you turn them off for a few hours.

It is the evening here so i think another test will have to wait until tomorrow, if i remember i will do it while i am at work for 9hrs. :)

[testman]

The problem is the 50Hz input from EU STBs causing the console to have to create 10 frames per second out of nothing.

We know. It's called "interpolation" and isn't normally a problem with devices, but the Xbox One is just poor at it.

[trooper11]

It is the evening here so i think another test will have to wait until tomorrow, if i remember i will do it while i am at work for 9hrs. :)

 

 

That could be helpful if you don't mind trying it.

[trooper11]

We know. It's called "interpolation" and isn't normally a problem with devices, but the Xbox One is just poor at it.

 

 

I'm starting to think its not that the X1 is poor at it, but that the X1 is not identifying the connections properly and that leads to the signal not being passed as it should be. The 'trick' posted earlier clearly demonstrates that the X1 is capable of passing through 50hz content without issue. 

 

Since there are sporadic claims of some UK users not seeing the issue at all, and even in this thread SnoopZ's issue comes and goes under some pretty specific circumstances.

 

Something tells me what MS will have to do is update the built in 'hdmi check list' with specific commands for the cable boxes affected and to do something about the X1 not resyncing properly with those boxes.

[SnoopZ]

I'm starting to think its not that the X1 is poor at it, but that the X1 is not identifying the connections properly and that leads to the signal not being passed as it should be. The 'trick' posted earlier clearly demonstrates that the X1 is capable of passing through 50hz content without issue. 

 

Since there are sporadic claims of some UK users not seeing the issue at all, and even in this thread SnoopZ's issue comes and goes under some pretty specific circumstances.

 

Something tells me what MS will have to do is update the built in 'hdmi check list' with specific commands for the cable boxes affected and to do something about the X1 not resyncing properly with those boxes.

Well i left the X1 on fully through the night with the TV switched off and the cable box in standby mode, when i switched the TV and cable box back on in the morning everything worked fine, no freezing of the TV picture so this problem looks to be random.

[trooper11]

Well i left the X1 on fully through the night with the TV switched off and the cable box in standby mode, when i switched the TV and cable box back on in the morning everything worked fine, no freezing of the TV picture so this problem looks to be random.

Ok, that is some useful info. MS is sending engineers to some user homes to see the problem in person, they should head out to your place as well :laugh:

Although yours is hard to replicate on command. I think this is an hdmi issue, not a 50hz incompatibility issue. There is just too much evidence pointing in that direction.

[SnoopZ]

As i posted in the update thread, it is possible it has fixed my panning judder issue, as i have turned 'Auto Film 1' back on my TV and i don't seem to be seeing judder, however i need more good fast panning content to know for sure so it may take a few days.

[trooper11]

As i posted in the update thread, it is possible it has fixed my panning judder issue, as i have turned 'Auto Film 1' back on my TV and i don't seem to be seeing judder, however i need more good fast panning content to know for sure so it may take a few days.

I really hope that is true, because it would be nice to know that MS got on that problem quickly.

Now I wonder if it has fixed the problem for the other UK users that have run into it.

[SnoopZ]

I really hope that is true, because it would be nice to know that MS got on that problem quickly.

Now I wonder if it has fixed the problem for the other UK users that have run into it.

The juddering is still very apparent even on normal speak, so i turned off  film mode 'auto 1' on my TV and it is smooth again.

 

Hopefully they may fix this 1 day, i actually remember a similar issue with watching downloaded movies on the 360 years ago, not sure if that ever got fixed.

[trooper11]

The juddering is still very apparent even on normal speak, so i turned off  film mode 'auto 1' on my TV and it is smooth again.

 

Hopefully they may fix this 1 day, i actually remember a similar issue with watching downloaded movies on the 360 years ago, not sure if that ever got fixed.

Ah ok, so too good to be true then. Oh well, that just means they are still working on it.

[Ryster]

I tend to watch Sky News alot in the mornings when getting ready for work, and the evenings when getting ready for bed. Sky News as you know has that constantly scrolling news ticker along the bottom.

 

When I first got my Xbox One, there was noticeable judder to the ticker compared to previously when my Sky box was plugged directly into the TV. However I used the trick to force my Xbox One into 50 Hz mode which has resolved it for me and the ticker is now smooth again. This also doesn't seem to have had any noticeable impact on my games, as I've been paying DR3 and AC4 since with no issues.

 

So I can't see why they can't just lock European consoles to 50 Hz output like I have done. I don't see any downside.

[trooper11]

I tend to watch Sky News alot in the mornings when getting ready for work, and the evenings when getting ready for bed. Sky News as you know has that constantly scrolling news ticker along the bottom.

 

When I first got my Xbox One, there was noticeable judder to the ticker compared to previously when my Sky box was plugged directly into the TV. However I used the trick to force my Xbox One into 50 Hz mode which has resolved it for me and the ticker is now smooth again. This also doesn't seem to have had any noticeable impact on my games, as I've been paying DR3 and AC4 since with no issues.

 

So I can't see why they can't just lock European consoles to 50 Hz output like I have done. I don't see any downside.

I thought that trick forced the console to output everything at 50hz though, including games?

If it does, then that isn't an answer long term for most people.

[SnoopZ]

I tend to watch Sky News alot in the mornings when getting ready for work, and the evenings when getting ready for bed. Sky News as you know has that constantly scrolling news ticker along the bottom.

 

When I first got my Xbox One, there was noticeable judder to the ticker compared to previously when my Sky box was plugged directly into the TV. However I used the trick to force my Xbox One into 50 Hz mode which has resolved it for me and the ticker is now smooth again. This also doesn't seem to have had any noticeable impact on my games, as I've been paying DR3 and AC4 since with no issues.

 

So I can't see why they can't just lock European consoles to 50 Hz output like I have done. I don't see any downside.

I may try this sometime to see how it handles fast moving games like Forza. :)

[Ryster]

I thought that trick forced the console to output everything at 50hz though, including games?

If it does, then that isn't an answer long term for most people.

 

As I said, this has no noticeable impact on games. Certainly nothing I could discern with the naked eye on the two games I own. As such I don't see why this couldn't be an "answer long term".

 

I doubt 99% of humans could tell the difference between 50fps and 60fps with the naked eye.

[trooper11]

As I said, this has no noticeable impact on games. Certainly nothing I could discern with the naked eye on the two games I own. As such I don't see why this couldn't be an "answer long term".

 

I doubt 99% of humans could tell the difference between 50fps and 60fps with the naked eye.

You could be right, but I know at least some people would be upset knowing that it was not outputting games at 60fps, even if they couldn't see the difference.