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The PC form factor: "Lots of legacy attached."

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#106 +snaphat (Myles Landwehr)

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 00:30

I'd sure hate to do general development without a legacy mouse. I actually do it quite a lot on my laptop and it is very tedious. Fairly impossible to replace the mouse with something as efficient for these types of use-cases.

 

 

Imagine using a desktop someday that'll recognize more than the singular hit area the mouse provides.

Once you go beyond more than two finger gestures (and for even stricter use-cases 3 fingers) this is basically useless imo. There is an example in compilers where we talk about running for optimal execution using a single program counter (finger). What happens when you have more than one finger? How do you do optimal execution? The more fingers you add, the harder the problem becomes. Similarly, in this case of using many fingers or many hit areas for input, what are the use-cases you can envision? IMO, it's really hard to come up with things that aren't going to be gimmicky and mostly useless.




#107 jjkusaf

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 03:16

Control the pointer? No, these technologies are looking to replace it all together. Our desktop operating systems are the only operating system in existence that still use the pointer. Other operating systems don't have it at all, or like the Xbox, the pointer is application based. In this case, showing up only on the games it's needed.

Imagine using a desktop someday that'll recognize more than the singular hit area the mouse provides.

 

exactly, the mouse isn't a legacy device.  There isn't anything out there currently that replaces a mouse.

 

Desktop operating systems, last time I checked, are still heavily used.  Correct me if I'm wrong?

 

I imagine a lot of things...but that doesn't make them appear out of the blue.



#108 Davo

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 04:38

It's weird reading how absolutely WORRIED people get when fundamental changes are even theorized. The keyboard and mouse could very well be replaced some day by the very fact that there was a time when they didn't exist. This sort of dug-in-heels mentality always pops up in regards to e-readers too. There are some people who say that we'll never move away from printed matter but what happens when the current generation isn't as emotionally invested in it and prefers a different method?

 

Will there be a new method or will we see the evolution of the current KB/mouse setup? I don't know but I'm very excited at the prospects of change because in my lifetime I've gone from using the Apple II as a fun class exercise to seeing tablets that are accessible to the general public.



#109 Andre S.

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 05:14

Control the pointer? No, these technologies are looking to replace it all together. Our desktop operating systems are the only operating system in existence that still use the pointer. Other operating systems don't have it at all, or like the Xbox, the pointer is application based. In this case, showing up only on the games it's needed.

Operating systems that are not controlled with mice are not exactly a novelty. Game consoles and handheld devices have been around for several decades; they're pretty much as old as the mouse itself. Laptop trackpads have supported multi-point touch before the iPhone came out.

 

None of these has ever replaced the mouse, so why should they in the future? It seems to me that you're conjuring an elaborate fantasy based on Windows 8's particular limitations around mouse control. These are acknowledged and being addressed by Microsoft.



#110 Yusuf M.

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 05:39

We probably shouldn't be assuming anything looking into the future of how tasks will be better suited. Current tasks might be better for m/kb but we don't know exactly what tasks the future even holds let alone if a more efficient/superior technology can emerge to do current tasks. Ideally atm, me speaking out loud to say go to neowin forum and viewing it's contents on any viewable device in my home sound a lot more efficient than me grabbing my laptop and rummaging through bookmarks as the technology does exist to make such a reality.

It would even be very arrogant to say that the internet,TV and games will always be like they are today. It's at least certainly changed immensely since the turn of the millenium.

What kind of future are we talking? It's easy to predict things in the near-future (e.g. 1-4 years from now). It gets harder and harder to predict things further ahead. The mouse and keyboard is obviously here to stay until something better comes along. If it was an easy thing, then we'd likely have it by now. To me, using your voice to navigate software on a PC is something that can be used alongside a mouse and keyboard.

 

Anyway, we'll never know for sure what the future holds for us.



#111 Richard C.

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 07:27

Mouse, trackpad, or even a trackball do essentially the same thing... they move the pointer. It's just a personal preference of which one you like better.

 

If you stopped using a mouse and started using a trackpad instead... not much has really changed.

 

The big jump happens when you stop using pointer-based navigation altogether.  Something like direct manipulation with a touchscreen.

 

Trackpads are a viable alternative? I'd love to see some-one playing half-life 2 or borderlands with a trackpad! While game controllers are useable in Windows (I even have one for some games) they are only slightly above annoying for these types of games, as well as being useless for heavy cursor based games such as Rollercoaster Tycoon

 

As for touch, if anyone can comfortably touch my big screens from a few feet away on my desk then they deserve a medal, before being put to death for touching my monitors :p



#112 Aheer.R.S.

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 07:45

Trackpads are a viable alternative? I'd love to see some-one playing half-life 2 or borderlands with a trackpad! While game controllers are useable in Windows (I even have one for some games) they are only slightly above annoying for these types of games, as well as being useless for heavy cursor based games such as Rollercoaster Tycoon

 

As for touch, if anyone can comfortably touch my big screens from a few feet away on my desk then they deserve a medal, before being put to death for touching my monitors :p

ugh fingerprints on my screens, I think I'd kill said perpetrator too.......



#113 Michael Scrip

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 11:26

Trackpads are a viable alternative? I'd love to see some-one playing half-life 2 or borderlands with a trackpad! While game controllers are useable in Windows (I even have one for some games) they are only slightly above annoying for these types of games, as well as being useless for heavy cursor based games such as Rollercoaster Tycoon

 

As for touch, if anyone can comfortably touch my big screens from a few feet away on my desk then they deserve a medal, before being put to death for touching my monitors :p

I don't know why you quoted me. The other guy (username Bag in post #81) said trackpads were a viable alternative to mice. I didn't say that!

 

All I said was that trackpads, mice and trackballs move the mouse pointer. Which, in essence, is what they are supposed to do.

 

You're right about gaming... but neither Bag nor myself addressed gaming.

 

I love my mouse... no one can take it away!

 

And as for touch... I'm with you. Don't touch my monitors!



#114 Deactivated.

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 11:55

It's weird reading how absolutely WORRIED people get when fundamental changes are even theorized. The keyboard and mouse could very well be replaced some day by the very fact that there was a time when they didn't exist. This sort of dug-in-heels mentality always pops up in regards to e-readers too. There are some people who say that we'll never move away from printed matter but what happens when the current generation isn't as emotionally invested in it and prefers a different method? 

 

That's why you give people the choice. Pick the paper book or the eBook, whichever you like best. No need to replace one with the other. In fact, I would like to see the best of both worlds: buy a paper book and get the eBook for free à la Amazon AutoRip. One thing's for sure, paper books will continue to exist as long as there is sufficient demand for them, regardless of the success of eBooks. There's a raison d'être for both of them. In that regard, it's a good analogy to the traditional PC/Mac as we know them  versus tablets. 



#115 +riahc3

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 15:54

Hello,

Well, like it or not, the mouse is largely legacy because there's technology emerging to replace it.

No, like it or not, it isnt legacy. There is technology emerging to complement it right now. Nothing out there for now replace it.

#116 Richard C.

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 18:13

There always has been technology to complement the mouse such as graphics tablets. There has always been efforts such as Apple's desktop trackpad, and trackball style desktop mice to try and compete with the standard mouse setup, neither has won over because they aren't as effective, while Apple's desktop trackpad has had a degree of success, it's arguable that's more to do with trackpad being a common input device on laptops and so Apple's device makes the using a desktop more familiar for laptop users. If a device exists that doesn't involve stretching my arms several feet to cover my screens in a fingerprinty mess, that is better for all round use including gaming than a mouse, then I will embrace it, however I've yet to see such a device.

I don't know why you quoted me. The other guy (username Bag in post #81) said trackpads were a viable alternative to mice. I didn't say that!

All I said was that trackpads, mice and trackballs move the mouse pointer. Which, in essence, is what they are supposed to do.

You're right about gaming... but neither Bag nor myself addressed gaming.

I love my mouse... no one can take it away!

And as for touch... I'm with you. Don't touch my monitors

Sorry I quoted you, must have clicked the wrong quote button. :(