+Zagadka Subscriber² Posted May 7, 2015 Subscriber² Share Posted May 7, 2015 As far as I remember, a lot of the power boost from DX12 comes from handling CPU cores more effectively... But in any case, I'm on a hold of buying new hardware until after Win10 is out. It rarely makes sense to make an expensive purchase immediately prior to a significant change in software and drivers. President Devil 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammy2 Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Well I got the GTX 960 today and on the box it said directx12 ready sooo ?? Nvidia is lying ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisj1968 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 From my experience using Windows 10 and DX12 on a DX11 laptop, it made a world of difference. I only reverted back to Windows 8.1 when the nvidia drivers between build 9926 and 10041 from nvidia broke my system to the point my games stopped working. But in general besides that, DX12 will be amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobius Enigma Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Well I got the GTX 960 today and on the box it said directx12 ready sooo ?? Nvidia is lying ? Yes and No... The difference is 'hardware support' and 'framework support'. Technically ANY video card that has DX10 or newer drivers is 'DirectX 12 ready' - (Framework support). However, don't worry about it, the card you bought is just fine. True DirectX 12 'hardware' won't be a thing for a while, and won't offer much outside of a small bump in performance. The confusion is that DX10 and DX11 were about new hardware features that were 'required' for DX10 or DX11 to work. Where DirectX 12 is about changes in the DirectX framework that benefits all modern GPUs. So, DirectX 12 is a return to how DirectX originally was designed as the hardware changes were less dramatic and it could offer new features to older hardware, as all hardware basically worked the same. DirectX10/11 were MASSIVE GPU hardware changes, as they were based off the new GPU architecture Microsoft designed for the XB360 - unified shader, RAM/VRAM paths, DMA onboard, etc. It literally changed how GPUs were made from the ground up. Ian W, FunkyMike, sammy2 and 1 other 4 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Decryptor Veteran Posted May 8, 2015 Veteran Share Posted May 8, 2015 Well I got the GTX 960 today and on the box it said directx12 ready sooo ?? Nvidia is lying ? Nope, Gen 2 Maxwell (i.e. the 9xx series) does support all the new DX12 hardware features. Previous cards (Going back to Fermi) support their existing feature set, but are still being supported by the DX12 API. The DX numbering scheme is a bit odd, but does make sense when you read about it. You've got 2 bits of important info, the API version (e.g. 11) and the "feature level" (Which specified the hardware it's targeting), you can use DX11 to target DX9 hardware (or DX12 to target DX10 hardware) and the developer gets the benefits of the API enhancements, while working with the same underlying hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammy2 Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 Now after having the card in for like three hours it froze - and now i'm not getting anything from the card. Had to connect to onboard again..Jesus..Back to best buy I guess... I updated drivers and all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammy2 Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 I used the onboard card for like 30 mins... And switched it back to the video card and it's working again... I checked action center and saw this Problem signature Problem Event Name: APPCRASH Application Name: nvstreamsvc.exe Application Version: 4.1.1953.6972 Application Timestamp: 5541bef1 Fault Module Name: nvstreamsvc.exe Fault Module Version: 4.1.1953.6972 Fault Module Timestamp: 5541bef1 Exception Code: c0000005 Exception Offset: 0000000000687be2 OS Version: 6.3.9600.2.0.0.256.48 Locale ID: 1033 Additional Information 1: ed90 Additional Information 2: ed90a754682e9e8aae43985ce9c0727c Additional Information 3: 94b4 Additional Information 4: 94b4bb979f845245aeed6134ed06b81b I think i'm going to reinstall the driver and see what happens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Decryptor Veteran Posted May 8, 2015 Veteran Share Posted May 8, 2015 If it keeps happening just take it back, the Nvidia driver is buggy, but not that buggy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammy2 Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 Now my onboard card isn't recognizing the monitor. . Wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammy2 Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 suddenly my video card is working again!! ..This is just toomuch... Wish this thing would just work consistently. After the last time I got the video card to work I reinstalled the drivers - clean install. Then I restarted the PC and then either GPU would not recognize my monitor. I wonder what could be causing this ? The card is on now and working fine. I wish there was a way to test if there is some compatibility issue like power supply etc.. For the first two minutes I heard a reading sound coming from my computer - never heard it before and now it's gone before I could finish typing this message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notuptome2004 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 take it back and get a replacment i am running the gigabyte GTX 960 4ggb dual fan card so take yours back sammy2 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammy2 Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 But what if it's my system ? I have a 500 watts power supply and it's required 400w.. What could possibly make my onboard card not work ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nexus18 MVC Posted May 8, 2015 MVC Share Posted May 8, 2015 Try running DDU, direct driver uninstaller. sammy2 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceelf Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 But what if it's my system ? I have a 500 watts power supply and it's required 400w.. What could possibly make my onboard card not work ? what PSU? If it's crap the wattage really won't matter. The components are bad enough, but all PSUs also perform worse as they build up heat and a good one would be better about keeping it from building up. plenty of other possibilities as well but my pc tech hat is in a box somewhere at the moment sammy2 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammy2 Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 Okay guys update... Sinec lastnight it has been more consistent. I turned off the computer a couple times to ensure it would boot up without any issues and it did. I have a corsair PSU, i7-4770s, 8gb of RAM..120SSD, and two other HDD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Eternal Tempest MVC Posted May 8, 2015 MVC Share Posted May 8, 2015 I don't think it will, at least not at first. It will help the XboxOne, a bit (how much time will tell). Most game developers develop to the most common level, and it won't be DX12 for a while. DX 12 adoption will follow how many pc's are using Windows 10, if there's a hold out with 7 or 8, it's going to delay it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
President Devil Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I don't think it will, at least not at first. It will help the XboxOne, a bit (how much time will tell). Most game developers develop to the most common level, and it won't be DX12 for a while. DX 12 adoption will follow how many pc's are using Windows 10, if there's a hold out with 7 or 8, it's going to delay it. The main advantage for the Xbox One is code portability with a low level code that also works on PC, where it will really shine, thus allowing easy multiplatform deployment with all the low level advantages of DX12. Will it automatically make all games 1080p? Nope, because of the 32MB eSRAM that developers limit themselves to for their framebuffers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Asmodai MVC Posted May 8, 2015 MVC Share Posted May 8, 2015 DX12 will be huge. Unlike DX10 and DX11 up until the launch of the Xbox One and PS4 (which launched with DX11+ level hardware capabilities*) DX12 will be adopted rapidly because the consoles support it. DX12 is the new DX9 (what the Xbox 360 and PS3 supported in hardware*) DX12 has feature levels and the lowest feature level id 11_0 which is nearly identical with DX11 (with the addition of Resource Binding Tier 1 requirements). As such most DX11 cards today will support DX12 at feature level 11_0 at least. Next up is feature level 11_1 which just adds most, if not all, of the OPTIONAL DX11 capabilities as mandatory so a good deal of DX11 cards will support this as well. After that is feature level 12_0 which I believe both PS4 and Xbox One support (in hardware*) The top version is level 12_1 only the newer cards will support. Even at the top there are "optional" features as well so different cards may support different levels even within this tier. It's important to note though that DX12 is an ENTIRELY NEW API. So you won't be able to just update your DX software and video card drivers to gain the benefits of it. The game has to be written for DX12 in the first place. Again this should happen fast though because even the consoles have the necessary hardware to support it. DX11.3 is coming out at the same time though that adds the new features to the older DX11 API so you won't get all the performance benefits of DX12 but you'll at least be able to support similar features and that one existing games should support without having to rewrite the render code. DX12 is lower level so it's more powerful and at the same time more difficult to program in (you have to do most things manually that used to be automated for you in DX11). Keep in mind though that lots of games today don't write their render engines from scratch and instead use game engines like Unreal and Unity. MS is already working with them to get their engines running DX12 so even indie games will for example make their game in Unity and Unity will use DX12 for them behind the scenes. * Note I'm not saying any PS supported any DX API I'm just saying the hardware has that level of capabilities. Sony has their own PS specific APIs and Microsoft uses modified versions of DX on consoles) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Decryptor Veteran Posted May 9, 2015 Veteran Share Posted May 9, 2015 I don't think it will, at least not at first. It will help the XboxOne, a bit (how much time will tell). Most game developers develop to the most common level, and it won't be DX12 for a while. DX 12 adoption will follow how many pc's are using Windows 10, if there's a hold out with 7 or 8, it's going to delay it. There are people at EA pushing to have DX12 the minimum supported API by the end of 2016 (or so) for their games. Since 10 is a free upgrade there's not many reasons not to be running it, and devs have to weigh the amount of people choosing not to upgrade, compared to the costs of supporting both DX12 and DX11 rendering pipelines. Of course devs could also just use Unreal/Unity and then never have to worry about what version of DX is in use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceelf Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 There are people at EA pushing to have DX12 the minimum supported API by the end of 2016 (or so) for their games. Since 10 is a free upgrade there's not many reasons not to be running it, and devs have to weigh the amount of people choosing not to upgrade, compared to the costs of supporting both DX12 and DX11 rendering pipelines. Of course devs could also just use Unreal/Unity and then never have to worry about what version of DX is in use. EA will already be supporting Vulkan on all of their Mantle titles as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Decryptor Veteran Posted May 9, 2015 Veteran Share Posted May 9, 2015 Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how many other companies support it. I assume it'll see traction on Android devices (and Linux of course, there's already talk of implementing OpenGL purely on Vulkan), but considering how much attention Apple gives to OpenGL I'm not sure what they're going to do (And they've got their own iOS only graphics API which I doubt they'll want to replace) Edit: Of course, this'll all be abstracted by the engines in use these days, but they'll want to cull the pipelines down as much as possible (I read one Unity dev talking about just using Vulkan shaders for everything and compiling them down to the host system in the backend) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceelf Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Valve moving straight from dx9 to Vulkan is awkward. They didn't give a crap for eight years and now they're jumping straight to the front? Weird. Either way the more devs get off dx9 the happier I am, obviously. President Devil 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Decryptor Veteran Posted May 9, 2015 Veteran Share Posted May 9, 2015 Writing a new engine helps. They did make use of newer features though, back with Episode 2 they added support for some DX10 features they could access through DX9. And although they do license Source out, 99% of the things using it are internal to Valve, so they only upgrade it to do what they need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Eternal Tempest MVC Posted May 9, 2015 MVC Share Posted May 9, 2015 There are people at EA pushing to have DX12 the minimum supported API by the end of 2016 (or so) for their games. Since 10 is a free upgrade there's not many reasons not to be running it, and devs have to weigh the amount of people choosing not to upgrade, compared to the costs of supporting both DX12 and DX11 rendering pipelines. Of course devs could also just use Unreal/Unity and then never have to worry about what version of DX is in use. Unlike Windows 8x, I think Windows 10 will go over much better, and since MS is pretty trying to give it away for free, I think MS has a good chance to get the adoption much faster on DX12 then DX11 was with vista. Having the XboxOne, and multiple platform development will also be another boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notuptome2004 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Unlike Windows 8x, I think Windows 10 will go over much better, and since MS is pretty trying to give it away for free, I think MS has a good chance to get the adoption much faster on DX12 then DX11 was with vista. Having the XboxOne, and multiple platform development will also be another boost. well the fact that Nvida cards all the way back to Fermi chips support partial DX12 features means the adoption rate is already well under way and the fact DX12 improves CPU efficenies on thread loading and such itself on software side means big improvment and adoption rate is fast and cponsidering DX12 is part of windows 10 as a platform this means Xbox one to Windows devices of all shapes and sizes is running DX12 out of the box down below is videos intel showing off DX12 on ther hardware +E.Worm Jimmy 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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