Landmark deal reached on Iran nuclear program

[DocM]

Firstly, why shouldn't Iran be allowed nuclear weapons when the US has then and even deployed them against a civilian population?

Because they signed the NPT and havent lived up to it, which is why the hub-bub. They've also threatened to destroy Israel just because, and are state sponsors of terrorism as far away as South America.

India, Israel, North Korea, Pakistan and South Sudan are not parties to NPT.

As to Hiroshima and Nagasaki: NPT wasn't a factor then and the bombings were to put a rapid end to a costly (to all sides) war at a time the Japanese warlords were preparing for a fight to the last drop of everyone's blood. They were prepared to overthrow their Emperor to do it, and some officers actually tried a coup. Enough was enough.

[123456789A]

The good news about the lifted sanctions is that the Iranians will get to upgrade to Windows 10.

[BinaryData]

I'm glad to see that Iran is trying to improve itself, but I'm more worried about other things. The Middle East, to me, has always seemed like a war zone. I can't remember a time in my life where it was truly peaceful.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Because they signed the NPT and havent lived up to it, which is why the hub-bub. They've also threatened to destroy Israel just because.

India, Israel, North Korea, Pakistan and South Sudan are not parties to NPT.

Their status as a signatory to the NNPT has nothing to do with the point I made - they could simply revoke their support. The issue I have is that the US and others bully other countries while maintaining an obscene arsenal of nuclear weapons. Further, Iran didn't threaten to destroy Israel - it has said the country and its Zionist regime should not exist, which is something entirely different. On the otherhand Israel has threatened Iran on numerous occasions, including the use of nuclear weapons. It's very clear to anyone familiar with the matter than Israel is far more belligerent and egregious in its violations of international law.

 

As to Hiroshima and Nagasaki: NPT wasn't a factor then and the bombings were to put a rapid end to a costly (to all sides) war at a time the Japanese warlords were preparing for a fight to the last drop of everyone's blood. They were prepared to overthrow their Emperor to do it, and some officers actually tried a coup. Enough was enough.

The US deliberately drew out the war and refused to negotiate an end to hostilities with Japan because it wanted to demonstrate its power to the rest of the world. If the US really opposed nuclear weapons then it should start by decommissioning its own. The US stance is utterly hypocritical.

 

Compare the number of wars started by the US or Israel to Iran and you see the real picture.

[FloatingFatMan]

I simply don't trust Obama at all. Any 'deal' he makes will have legacy as the primary purpose.  The guy is a serial liar (just like most politicians), and from his policies you can see he doesn't put US interests first.

 

Obama didn't make the deal, the negotiators, of which the US contingent was just ONE part, did.

[FloatingFatMan]

Because they signed the NPT and havent lived up to it, which is why the hub-bub.

There really no actual evidence that Iran has been seeking nuclear weapons; just American's unproven accusation.  Iran has always insisted it seeks only nuclear power production.

 

They've also threatened to destroy Israel just because, and are state sponsors of terrorism as far away as South America.

Come now Doc, it's common knowledge that that was a poor translation. There was never any actual threat of destruction made against Israel by the Iranians. And besides, even if there were, Israel has made countless threats in the other direction, yet I don't see you taking them to task for it.

 

As for the state sponsoring of terrorism, again... Have the US ever actually shown proof of that?

 

As to Hiroshima and Nagasaki: NPT wasn't a factor then and the bombings were to put a rapid end to a costly (to all sides) war at a time the Japanese warlords were preparing for a fight to the last drop of everyone's blood. They were prepared to overthrow their Emperor to do it, and some officers actually tried a coup. Enough was enough.

 

The reasons for the nuking of Japan are not what's being discussed here, just that it's the only nation to have ever used them in anger.  That is an irrefutable historical fact, and is the sole reason why so many countries are scared of the US. They know they're dealing with people who'd done it before and we often see outspoken US citizens calling for them to be used again...

 

And I'll remind everyone, this is not a deal between Iran and USA, it's a deal between Iran and the UN, of which the USA is merely one member.  There are other concerns here beyond US paranoia.

[DefyTheOutcome]

On top of that, if the US tries to nix the deal, you might well find yourselves out in the cold as far as the UN is concerned whilst the rest of the world goes ahead with it anyway.

 

No deal is perfect, it's just the best compromise that's possible. Time the US stopped throwing its weight around and learned that.

 

Yep, the 12 years of negotiations worked into making Iran come to the negotiation table because China, Russia and Europe agreed to apply the economical sanctions with us.

Without that support, the Iranian regime would have gotten the oil exports to China.

 

It's NOT a good deal,it's capitulation...

 

Yes, capitulation over strings of bad ideas over the last 35 years: of support of the Shah in Iran, who was a despot, of support of Saddam Hussein during the Iran-Iraq war, of shooting down civilian aircrafts, of bombing US warships.

35 years of aggressions between the US and Iran that did not change anything: The ayatollahs are still there.

 

Same with Cuba: 45 years of isolation of Cuba by the US, for which results? Nada, the Castros are still there.

Worse, both Fidel and Raul Castro are 85+ y/o men who are not in good health, when they died, they are going to leave a huge political void there.

It is better that we can have some sort of control there instead of having Cuba fall down to the nearest wealthy drug lord

 

 

It does not dismantle they're nuclear program,and allows them to buy conventional weapons(missile delivery systems) ICBM's in the future.

 

Have you seen the stockpiles of missiles and weapons in neighbouring countries? Pakistan is a nuclear power, India is a nuclear power. Saudi Arabia and Qatar are buying weapons by the shiploads and they are playing bizarre double games.

 

On top of that, Afghanistan is Fubaristan 1, Syria is Fubaristan 2, Yemen is Fubaristan 3, Somalia is Fubaristan 4, Sudan is Fubaristan 5 and Lybia is Fubaristan 6

 

There is no way to stabilize the region without help from local powers

[DocM]

There really no actual evidence that Iran has been seeking nuclear weapons; just American's unproven accusation. Iran has always insisted it seeks only nuclear power production.

>

That don't hold water.

You don't need that many high-output centrifuges, or their work on the 16x faster laser separation, to produce power reactor fuel or generate medical isotopes for a nation that size - which is what they've claimed.

That much separation capacity is only useful for quickly producing bomb grade enrichments greater than what's needed for reactors (3% to <20%) and efficiently separating weapons grade uranium and plutonium.

Medical isotopes can be created using a cyclotron or synchrotron, which Iran either has or is building.

[FloatingFatMan]

Pure supposition, the US has no evidence.

[DocM]

Pure supposition math, the US has no enough circumstantial and signals intelligence evidence.

Fixed.

Facts are facts, and that number of centrifuges, and the other things found by the IAEA and others, leads to NO other conclusion.

They also found evidence of a large test chamber at Parchin in a configuration used to test nuclear weapon "pits." This matches a document given IAEA in 2008 which documented the 2003 test of what they described as a nuclear weapon ignition system.

Such tests are used to confirm a properly shaped explosive shockwave, which varies by bomb design but basically initiates the events leading to the explosion.

[FloatingFatMan]

Fixed.

Facts are facts, and that number of centrifuges, and the other things found by the IAEA and others, leads to NO other conclusion.

They also found evidence of a large test chamber at Parchin in a configuration used to test nuclear weapon "pits." This matches a document given IAEA in 2008 which documented the 2003 test of what they described as a nuclear weapon ignition system.

Such tests are used to confirm a properly shaped explosive shockwave, which varies by bomb design but basically initiates the events leading to the explosion.

 

 

Without actual evidence, the facts in this case are pure supposition.  I'm not saying the Iranians weren't seeking nukes, but you have no hard evidence that they were, just suspicions.  Hardly enough to continue to treat them as an enemy when they have capitulated to inspections.

 

If they start playing silly buggers down the road and stop inspectors, then you get to say "I told you so", but until then, diplomacy MUST be given a chance to work.  If the US senate tries to nix this deal, the rest of the world will probably just tell them to get stuffed and go ahead anyway.