batbeef Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 So I'm studying for my nats class and this came up after reading about the big bang, and I'm kinda perplexed by it because I can't seem to come up with any plausible solution to this problem of what happened before it. You guys have any ideas? (Try to be serious though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurë Veteran Posted November 13, 2006 Veteran Share Posted November 13, 2006 Absolutely nothing....or a big crunch (which followed a previous big bang etc etc)......these are just guesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnmnky Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 This is what people meditate on. "ohhhmmmmm.................ohhhmmmmm.........." Nothing, absolute nothing. Imagine that, imagine everything we know and everything that exists now. Now imagine the opposite and try to put it into words. That's what was happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batbeef Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 I just scoured the interent for any sceinteific studies that even probed at what happened before the Big Bang and not even 1 was credible or had something that could even attempt to explain one of the biggest mysteries of life. Do you guys think that scientists are dodging this huge problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farstrider Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Since "before" is a temporal concept, one cannot ask what came before the Big Bang and therefore "caused" it, at least not within the context of any known physics. (At least one cosmological theory, however, predicts that our universe's Big Bang is part of a chain reaction in which the demise of one universe spawns the birth of many, parallel, universes. According to this scenario, our universe may simply be part of a huge, infinitely growing fractal.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batbeef Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 Since "before" is a temporal concept, one cannot ask what came before the Big Bang and therefore "caused" it, at least not within the context of any known physics. (At least one cosmological theory, however, predicts that our universe's Big Bang is part of a chain reaction in which the demise of one universe spawns the birth of many, parallel, universes. According to this scenario, our universe may simply be part of a huge, infinitely growing fractal.) Then what started all of these infinte series of big bangs? Was there ever a time when t=0? What was before t=0 that casued t=1 and what casued that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manson_AAN Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 shouldn't this be in the science section? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordkanin Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Then what started all of these infinte series of big bangs? Was there ever a time when t=0? What was before t=0 that casued t=1 and what casued that? In a sine curve, is there are a beginning? Isn't t=0 the same as t=-2pi? I guess it borders on philosophy at this point in our scientific understanding of the universe..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lol911 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 You are grasping for air here, there is absolutely no rational explanation to what was before the big bang. You just have to go with the least insane one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundayx Veteran Posted November 13, 2006 Veteran Share Posted November 13, 2006 ... a small bang. duh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excalpius Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Mio is closest. Here is the answer in layman's terms. Where does a circle "begin" or "end"? The reason you have trouble grasping the concept is that you are thinking linearly, because we humans measure "time" as a series of events, as perceived via cause and then effect. But Time does not "begin" or "end" either. Simply put, only our PERCEPTION of the passage of time is linear. If you can see everything as a circle, an infinite loop, you'd get it. And yes, I'm a physicist...and a philosopher - though I only have a degree in the former. It is that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey L Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 God. "He" always existed. As a matter of fact God is beyond time, time exists inside of God, God is the 5th Dimension, which is existence itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excalpius Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 And for the humorous response. What happened before the Big Bang? God ate a lot of beans. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batbeef Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 (edited) Mio is closest. Here is the answer in layman's terms. Where does a circle "begin" or "end"? The reason you have trouble grasping the concept is that you are thinking linearly, because we humans measure "time" as a series of events, as perceived via cause and then effect. But Time does not "begin" or "end" either. Simply put, only our PERCEPTION of the passage of time is linear. If you can see everything as a circle, an infinite loop, you'd get it. And yes, I'm a physicist...and a philosopher - though I only have a degree in the former. It is that simple. Woah, yea that just came to me, the whole t=0 and t=-2pi thing is pretty good i would have never seen time as something as an infinte like that. But can you explain all of the matter in existnece? Infinte time sure...but inifnte matter? How did 0 matter become 1 matter? Edit: Nvm I dont beleive in the infinte time idea anymore. It's been proven that the big bang has occured sometime before 15billion yrs ago One evasive tactic is to claim that the universe didn't have a beginning, that it has existed for all eternity. Unfortunately, there are many scientific reasons why this obvious idea is unsound. For starters, given an infinite amount of time, anything that can happen will already have happened, for if a physical process is likely to occur with a certain nonzero probability-however small-then given an infinite amount of time the process must occur, with probability one. By now, the universe should have reached some sort of final state in which all possible physical processes have run their course. Furthermore, you don't explain the existence of the universe by asserting that it has always existed. That is rather like saying that nobody wrote the Bible: it was. just copied from earlier versions. Quite apart from all this, there is very good evidence that the universe did come into existence in a big bang, about fifteen billion years ago. The effects of that primeval explosion are clearly detectable today-in the fact that the universe is still expanding, and is filled with an afterglow of radiant heat. Edited November 13, 2006 by batbeef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excalpius Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 God is the 5th Dimension. Was that before or after He joined Gladys Knight and the Pips? :) Joey, you might want to include smiley faces next time. Some people might have thought that was a serious post, hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethos Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Before the Big Bang was the Gang Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToneKnee Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Aliens came along, had a war, someone set a bomb off to end it! :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsciiSmoke Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Somebody lit the fuse and legged it. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamsebjørn Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 It is my belief that when the Great Green Arkleseizure sneezed (A.K.A. the big bang), the universe came into existance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightmarE D Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Aliens came along, had a war, someone set a bomb off to end it! :p Believe it or not, there's many people who think that aliens had a part in the "big bang" :laugh: That's no joke. I remember seeing it on a documentary on The History Channel and I sat there like :blink: because they were soo serious about it, yet couldn't really explain their theories :laugh: What do I honestly think? I think it's a question we're nowhere near ready to answer yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollaxe Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 When you can hear the sound of one hand clapping, then you'll be closer to knowing! :) Who knows? There are various theories, multiple big bangs.. singularities.. enormous turtles with planets perched on their shells.. You really need to get a good physicist backed into a corner and prod them with a sharp stick until they give you a couple of viable theories, then repeat the process with a different physicist and so on until you'll have about a dozen theories then choose your favourite one! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excalpius Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 But can you explain all of the matter in existnece? Infinte time sure...but inifnte matter? How did 0 matter become 1 matter? Matter and Energy are two sides of the same coin, the same thing. For a conventional analogy, think of Matter as the "solid" form of Energy. So "existence" begins with this cycle, what you call T=0, which is actually just how we would see it, as energy, big bang. Matter and energy expand out, mix, churn in supernovas, collapse into black holes, and stream out of pulsars. At some point the universe will expand to its limit, cooling, evening out (entropy), then it will begin collapsing back upon itself under the force of matter's engine, gravity. Mio's sine wave is a good analogy if you think of a ball rolling down a hill into a valley and then back up again. If the peak is the big bang/big collapse (maximum energy, minimum matter), and the valley is maximum expansion (minimum energy, maximum matter), you can see the universe "cycling". Now, some science fiction writers propose that time will somehow run backwards once the universe starts collapsing. This is absurd, since we measure time as a forward process. We would just watch, in normal forward time, the distance between stars getting smaller, etc. No big deal from our perspective. So if, for example, scientists proved that the universe was currently collapsing, all it would mean is that the universe already reached maximum expansion and we now lived during the last half of its upteen billion year life cycle. Bummer. ;) The amount of total energy in the universe is 1/unity/a constant. Some of that is found in myriad forms of matter, while the rest is in energy of nearly infinite variations. Light has properties of matter and energy, which is why it is the border/transition/conversion key in Einstein's e=m*c^2. It has always been 1/unity/a contant, and always will be. But since we only "exist" in this cycle, OUR existence is defined by the "time" between the big bang and the big collapse. And, as far as God goes, somewhere up the line, God exists in a universe...and that has a total energy of 1/unity/a constant. It always ends with existence as defining itself. Everything, even God, has to come after that. :) I hope that helps. Before the Big Bang was the Gang Bang aka the Big Collapse :) And before anyone brings up "Time is the fourth dimension", let me make it crystal clear that is crapola. :) Time, as it is defined in mathematics, etc. is simply a yardstick with which we measure changes that occur, vis a vis the other three dimensions. For time to be a true dimension, it would have to work in both directions. But it doesn't, well it does only in math experiments. In our real-world experience, Time flows forward because we use it as a simple means of measuring/describing/recording the flow of cause and effect. Now, Space-Time is a much more accurate description of "dimensions", because it shows how the perception of space and time interact/affect/distort one another. Space-Time is best left to a proper discussion of relativity as relates to the speed of light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batbeef Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 (edited) The amount of total energy in the universe is 1/unity/a constant. Some of that is found in myriad forms of matter, while the rest is in energy of nearly infinite variations. Light has properties of matter and energy, which is why it is the border/transition/conversion key in Einstein's e=m*c^2. It has always been 1/unity/a contant, and always will be. But since we only "exist" in this cycle, OUR existence is defined by the "time" between the big bang and the big collapse. The notion of universer/time/matter/energy as a constant I can totally accpet. Edited November 13, 2006 by batbeef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snyper Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 what happened before the big bang? Nothing, we dont really know.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googintosh Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 When you can hear the sound of one hand clapping, then you'll be closer to knowing! :) Who knows? There are various theories, multiple big bangs.. singularities.. enormous turtles with planets perched on their shells.. You really need to get a good physicist backed into a corner and prod them with a sharp stick until they give you a couple of viable theories, then repeat the process with a different physicist and so on until you'll have about a dozen theories then choose your favourite one! :) Heh, "enormous turtles with planets perched on their shells," give this person a prize for best post of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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