Oracle sues Google over Android operating system


Recommended Posts

In a clash of two Silicon Valley titans, Oracle said Thursday that it has filed a federal copyright lawsuit alleging that Google's popular Android operating system was built on Oracle's Java software without permission.

Android, which was first released in late 2008, is used by several computer manufacturers as the operating system that runs smartphones and other computing devices. Oracle's lawsuit, filed in the U.S. District Court for Northern California, accuses Google of infringing on patents and copyrights that Oracle acquired when it bought Sun Microsystems earlier this year.

Google had no immediate comment.

But one analyst called the lawsuit surprising because Sun, whose engineers developed Java, decided several years ago to release key elements of the widely used programming language under an open-source license which allows others to use it freely.

"Java is essential for Android," said Al Hilwa, a software expert at the IDC research firm. "But a big chunk of Java is open-source. Since Android has been out there for more than a year, most people would have expected they were in compliance with whatever license terms apply."

Android's growth in the first half of 2010 has been enormous, with Google CEO Eric Schmidt saying last week that more than 200,000 smartphones powered by Google's mobile operating system are being activated around the world each day. Gartner, a prominent research firm, said Thursday that Android is

now the most popular smartphone operating system in the United States, and is on the verge of becoming the second most popular in the world, closing in on Research In Motion's Blackberry.

All four major U.S. wireless carriers now offer smartphones powered by Android,.

While just 1.8 percent of the world's smartphones were running Android in the second quarter of 2009, Android now has 17.2 percent of the worldwide smartphone share, or 10.6 million phones, just behind RIM's 18.2 percent and 11.2 million phones, according to the Gartner report. Nokia's Symbian remains the world most popular smartphone operating system at 41.2 percent of the global market, but both Android and Apple's iPhone are rapidly eating into the market share of Nokia, RIM and Microsoft Windows Mobile phones.

Android's growth means more search revenue for Google, as consumers use their smartphones to search the web. Google does not break out its revenue from mobile search, but Google searches from Android devices grew by 300 percent during the first half of 2010, Jonathan Rosenberg, a Google senior vice president, recently told analysts.

The first Android phone, the T-Moble G1, went on sale in October 2008, and Android phones are now available in about 50 different countries.

Source

But one analyst called the lawsuit surprising because Sun, whose engineers developed Java, decided several years ago to release key elements of the widely used programming language under an open-source license which allows others to use it freely.

I guess now Oracle is planning to take it back?

Exactly...and how much do you even here about Oracle anymore? Seems to me Oracle just wants to be "heard"

Oracle are still doing well. All the key factors for them (revenue, equity, etc) are up.

Why Android? What is special about the Java implementation in it that warrants a lawsuit and why are other smartphones that have Java OK?

Also Google don't make money from Android. It's open source as well.

So I suppose everyone who now opposes this action where Google/android uses a non standard Java VM(it's not even a true VM) Also thought Sun where total a-holes when they sued MS for the MS Java WM ?

otherwise it'd be a bit hypocritical, since this violation of the Java TOS is significantly worse than the MS one.

Why Android? What is special about the Java implementation in it that warrants a lawsuit and why are other smartphones that have Java OK?

I suppose the difference is that others support actual (Oracle) Java platforms like J2ME. Android does not. Android does not implement any standard Java platform, and is not even capable of running Java bytecode.

It's essentially a custom platform that just happens to use the Java programming language (with support for some standard Java libraries.) Software written for Oracle's Java platforms can't run on Android, and vice versa. They are incompatible, both in source code and executable form.

Also Google don't make money from Android. It's open source as well.

Google makes plenty of money from it. Profit is the sole reason Android exists.

Why Android? What is special about the Java implementation in it that warrants a lawsuit and why are other smartphones that have Java OK?

Also Google don't make money from Android. It's open source as well.

Because android doesn't run Java apps. It turns dex files, in dalvik. dalvik is a special java "runtime" that runs the pre compiled dex files on Android and doesn't support the full java spec. it's written specifically for Android and uses the java language for the code, but doesn't run java apps. hence it doesn't follow the rules you agree to when using the java language or writing a java interpreter as they're supposed to be fully cross platform and support all the java language.

Google should have done the right thing and just made dalvik use their own special language instead of java and they'd be safe. But as usual google just plows ahead ignoring other peoples copyrights and hard work.

You mean the hard work that Oracle brought into, rather than developed themselves? Ah yeah, wouldn't want to undo that, would we.

Android is not what is broken here, it is the US patent system that needs reform.

I quite agree with you, we need to fix the broken patent system.

Oracle is doing quite fine.

They have every right to ask for retribution, knowing that Schmidt has used their source code for Android.

May be doing fine but you dont hear from them very often. Besides, most of the Java platform is open source so they will have to prove that whatever Android used, is not open.

it's written specifically for Android and uses the java language for the code, but doesn't run java apps. hence it doesn't follow the rules you agree to when using the java language or writing a java interpreter as they're supposed to be fully cross platform and support all the java language.

What "rules" are these though? Is there any evidence that Google entered into a contract with Oracle where these conditions were present?

But as usual google just plows ahead ignoring other peoples copyrights and hard work.

Copyright applies to the implementation. Did Google actually illegally use other people's code?

Because android doesn't run Java apps. It turns dex files, in dalvik. dalvik is a special java "runtime" that runs the pre compiled dex files on Android and doesn't support the full java spec. it's written specifically for Android and uses the java language for the code, but doesn't run java apps. hence it doesn't follow the rules you agree to when using the java language or writing a java interpreter as they're supposed to be fully cross platform and support all the java language.

Google should have done the right thing and just made dalvik use their own special language instead of java and they'd be safe. But as usual google just plows ahead ignoring other peoples copyrights and hard work.

Thanks HawkMan thats a good explanation. I didn't realise that making your own interpreter/runtime for Java was a problem.

Exactly...and how much do you even here about Oracle anymore? Seems to me Oracle just wants to be "heard"

Oracle doesn't need to be heard, those who matter know about oracle. They're still everywhere, doing business, and still making acquisitions etc lol

Thanks HawkMan thats a good explanation. I didn't realise that making your own interpreter/runtime for Java was a problem.

It shouldn't be, unless you violated any patents, used actual code belonging to someone else, or based the implementation on documentation (trade secrets) supplied under a contract that had various requirements, or violated antitrust regulations (see Microsoft.) I don't know what Google did, but there should be nothing illegal about a clean room implementation (patents aside), so at least in principle it is possible to create one that is as incompatible as you want.

Looks like Oracle doesn't like Java being fully open sourced, not shocked there.

There was an article a while back about Google Andriod and Java. (Can't find link)

It boiled down to this, Google (and other's) wanted to use Java differently then suns "standards".

Sun caved in and created exceptions with a special java designation / name, but really didn't want to.

Open Souce means this - if Google alters the java code, they have to make the altered code available to anyone that wants has it.

Other people then can use your code without your permission any changes they do they have to give the code oit.

May be doing fine but you dont hear from them very often. Besides, most of the Java platform is open source so they will have to prove that whatever Android used, is not open.

I haven't really kept up with Java but that's what I thought. Java is open source so how can they sue if the code is published (unless it violates something like the GNU license or whatever license Java runs under)?

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • Microsoft will soon allow some users to block Copilot from analyzing their Office files by Usama Jawad Microsoft Purview is a pretty useful data governance, security, and management service that allows customers to gain enhanced visibility and control over their content. It's meant for commercial customers, such as organizations that are storing data at scale. As AI continues to expand and infiltrate every corner of a firm, many are a bit conscious about the technology gaining access to their confidential data. Microsoft is now making a configuration change that will allow such customers to rest easy. Right now, users within an organization have the option to apply Purview sensitivity labels (when available) to secure certain files and label them as such. For example, if you apply the "Confidential" label on an Excel file, the file will be encrypted, and a "confidential" watermark will be applied to it. So, if this file is shared with anyone, they are aware that its access is supposed to be restricted. Up until now, Microsoft was allowing some connected experiences, like its AI services, to analyze files, regardless of their sensitivity label. This is of major concern to most organizations, as a recent example highlighted how confidential emails with data loss prevention (DLP) policies like privacy labels were being uploaded to Copilot for analysis. As such, Microsoft is updating an existing Purview data label sensitivity setting that prevents "some connected experiences that analyze content", from being blocked completely from doing this. The label isn't changing, but the blocking is now being enforced across all connected services (including Copilot and other AI tools), and now extends to Microsoft Word, Excel, and PowerPoint. Files with the label applied already will get this enhancement automatically too once it becomes available. Microsoft has urged IT admins to inform their respective helpdesk and compliance teams, update internal documentation, and review sensitivity labels to ensure that they meet their respective compliance needs. This change is tagged as MC1297982 in the Message Center. General availability is scheduled to begin in a phased manner soon and will complete by the end of next month. That said, it is important to note that this only applies to commercial customers who have a license that allows them to use Purview.
    • llamas are unruly going haywire in New Guinea.
    • The Persuasion Engine: How Any Business Can Use AI-Powered Neuromarketing —was $28 now free by Steven Parker Claim your complimentary copy (worth $35) of "The Persuasion Engine: How Any Business Can Use AI-Powered Neuromarketing to Understand and Win Customers" for free, before the offer ends on June 24. Description The Persuasion Engine, by neuromarketing and behavioral science expert Roger Dooley, solves the most pressing challenge faced by every marketer: how to figure out why customers make the decisions they do when 95% of their thought processes occur at an unconscious level. Dooley explains how artificial intelligence democratizes sophisticated neuromarketing tools that were once available only to Fortune 500 companies, making powerful customer insight and persuasion techniques accessible to businesses of any size. The book walks you through the evolution of traditional neuromarketing into ”Neuromarketing 2.0,” where AI-powered tools eliminate the need for expensive lab studies and human behavioral science experts. It offers a comprehensive roadmap for implementing eye tracking, facial coding, biometrics, implicit testing, and advanced AI behavioral techniques that dramatically improve marketing effectiveness while reducing costs and time investment. Inside the book, you’ll find: Revolutionary AI prompting strategies that bring world-class behavioral science expertise to your desktop Practical frameworks for leveraging attention, emotion, credibility, and decision architecture to boost conversions Step-by-step guidance for implementing biometric tools and implicit testing without laboratory resources Advanced techniques for creating scarcity, urgency, and FOMO that drive immediate customer action Comprehensive methods for auditing and enhancing empathy in customer communications Perfect for marketing professionals, business owners, entrepreneurs, and anyone with a stake in customer acquisition and retention, The Persuasion Engine provides actionable strategies that will transform your approach to marketing. Whether you're working on a shoestring or managing enterprise campaigns, you'll discover how to use your customers' non-conscious motivations and create compelling marketing that work on real people in the real world. How to download for free Please ensure you read the terms and conditions to claim this offer. Complete and verifiable information is required in order to receive this free offer. If you have previously made use of these offers, you will not need to re-register. Was $28, but is now FREE | Below free offer link expires on June 24. The Persuasion Engine: How Any Business Can Use AI-Powered Neuromarketing to Understand and Win Customers The below offers are also available for free in exchange for your (work) email: The Vibe Coding Playbook: Building Your Tech Business with AI ($35 Value) FREE - Expires 6/23 The Persuasion Engine: How Any Business Can Use AI-Powered Neuromarketing to Understand and Win Customers ($28 Value) FREE - Expires 6/24 How to Do More with Less: Future-Proofing Yourself in an AI-driven Economy ($28 Value) FREE - Expires 6/30 Cloud Security Fundamentals: Building the Foundations for Secure Cloud Platforms ($131.95 Value) FREE - Expires 7/1 The Complete Free AI Learning: Master ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini & More ($21 Value) FREE How to Build an AI Design Workflow with Gamma ($21 Value) FREE The Ultimate Linux Newbie Guide – Featured Free content Python Notes for Professionals – Featured Free content Learn Linux in 5 Days – Featured Free content Quick Reference Guide for Cybersecurity – Featured Free content We post these because we earn commission on each lead so as not to rely solely on advertising, which many of our readers block. It all helps toward paying staff reporters, servers and hosting costs. Other ways to support Neowin The above deal not doing it for you, but still want to help? Check out the links below. Check out our partner software in the Neowin Store Buy a T-shirt at Neowin's Threadsquad Subscribe to Neowin - for $14 a year, or $28 a year for an ad-free experience Disclosure: An account at Neowin Deals is required to participate in any deals powered by our affiliate, StackCommerce. For a full description of StackCommerce's privacy guidelines, go here. Neowin benefits from shared revenue of each sale made through the branded deals site.
    • All versions is correct. The bug appears on any version of Windows with KB5094126 installed. It's a little insane to expect the author to explain that systems that can't possibly have that patch installed, will not experience the bug. If you have any gripe about the title, it would be that it doesn't mention the update at all, but I wouldn't agree with that either. A title is not expected to be a full summery of the article.
    • (Can't see if he's still wearing the clompy clown shoes though)
  • Recent Achievements

    • Week One Done
      Eurosoft10 earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Month Later
      Eurosoft10 earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • One Year In
      Skeet Campbell earned a badge
      One Year In
    • One Month Later
      Sharbel earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • First Post
      BizSAR earned a badge
      First Post
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      589
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      190
    3. 3
      Michael Scrip
      76
    4. 4
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      75
    5. 5
      neufuse
      73
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!