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The thing is, people, aka the players, don't want to be forced to group. They want to be able to. But they won't to be able to "complete" the game as they see fit, without waiting for a friend that can't play or puging.

Several games have tried forcing grouping and especially in crafting forcing classes to work together. Thisn hasn't worked out well in any of the cases.

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Well it is good that they are introducing the Free-to-Play model because previously, I was holding off from getting the game due to the monthly fees. Now I can seriously consider playing the game :)

And this is why at worst, I'm taking a wait-and-see attitude, and at best, I'm hopeful for the game's future. Welcome to The Old Republic :D

The point is these games are moving towards something that rewards interaction with the community. STO and SWTOR from what I've played (and I've hit end-game in STO) consisted of many things you could do alone. There was little incentive to work together outside raids, and SWTOR was very similar to that. Although admittedly there was a particular quest I could not complete alone, but the game did not tell me that. I spent the better part of 2 hours trying to clear a mission that was apparently meant for 3-4 people and the only way I figured it out is I happened to remember that people were LFG'ing it back at the main town.

I'm not sure how you weren't aware that it was a group mission. In SWTOR, the mission name is actually prefixed with [HEROIC #] with the # being the recommended number of players for the mission.

The only way I can think this would happen is if your mission tracker HUD was full and the quest never appeared. However, the level of the enemies in the area should have given some clue - when the groups are composed of multiple strongs and elites you generally know you need a friend (or 3). Another clue is that when you enter one of the areas containing groups like this in the open world, they are generally Heroic areas and their area names are in purple when they flash on screen and above your mini-map.

The thing is, people, aka the players, don't want to be forced to group. They want to be able to. But they won't to be able to "complete" the game as they see fit, without waiting for a friend that can't play or puging.

Several games have tried forcing grouping and especially in crafting forcing classes to work together. Thisn hasn't worked out well in any of the cases.

I can't speak for how well it's worked out or not in other games since I've not really experienced that. However, I will say that I do appreciate the ability to reach max level solo.

In SWTOR, there is generally at least 1 group mission in each quest area along with a flashpoint every 10 levels or so from beginning to end. In my mind, that's plenty of group content interspersed with solo content and I can choose not to do it if I prefer. I like the ability to set my own leveling pace without being dependent on other people or waiting for someone else.

That being said, I've recently started playing Rift (along with SWTOR, I'm not quitting) and I do enjoy the mentoring ability this game has (and I understand GW2 will have as well). That makes it even more possible to level as fast or as slow as you want and still be able to find help if you need it (from a higher level friend or random person that queues as a mentor).

The point is, I want to enjoy the game and have fun the way I want, not the way some people dictate the genre should be.

I'm generally a progression minded player, but I took my time on my first character to enjoy the trip to 50 and watch the fully voiced and really well written stories of both my class and the planets/worlds unfold. Once I got 50, I tripped progression mode and I race through stuff and am all about the "raid-raid-raid." But that's my enjoyment of the game.

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I read something the other day that made me smile, SWTOR has less subs left than the ones WoW lost last quarter.

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I'm not sure how you weren't aware that it was a group mission. In SWTOR, the mission name is actually prefixed with [HEROIC #] with the # being the recommended number of players for the mission.

The only way I can think this would happen is if your mission tracker HUD was full and the quest never appeared. However, the level of the enemies in the area should have given some clue - when the groups are composed of multiple strongs and elites you generally know you need a friend (or 3). Another clue is that when you enter one of the areas containing groups like this in the open world, they are generally Heroic areas and their area names are in purple when they flash on screen and above your mini-map.

Unless its been that way since the head start (which is when I played and decided not to sub) then I wouldn't be surprised if that was changed. If that's the case then all well and good, but there was literally no indication of the enemies in the area being any different than the others when I was doing the mission. And I wasn't the only one making that mistake (there were at least 3 or 4 other people there trying to solo it as well).

My point isn't that games should ever force you to group. I said I enjoy games that promote community interaction. There is more to interacting with other players than just group quests and raids but most MMO's don't seem to have that figured out.

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Unless its been that way since the head start (which is when I played and decided not to sub) then I wouldn't be surprised if that was changed. If that's the case then all well and good, but there was literally no indication of the enemies in the area being any different than the others when I was doing the mission. And I wasn't the only one making that mistake (there were at least 3 or 4 other people there trying to solo it as well).

My point isn't that games should ever force you to group. I said I enjoy games that promote community interaction. There is more to interacting with other players than just group quests and raids but most MMO's don't seem to have that figured out.

Both the quests and the heoric mobs have been marked with a number for recommended players(the quest) and that they are heroic(both) since beta, so before the head start.

And why should the game force you to group ? you want to play that way, why is YOUR way the correct and only way to play an MMO ? why can't other peopel be allowed to play the way they want ? and besides you ARe forced to group for heroics and flashpoints.

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And why should the game force you to group ? you want to play that way, why is YOUR way the correct and only way to play an MMO ? why can't other peopel be allowed to play the way they want ? and besides you ARe forced to group for heroics and flashpoints.

My point isn't that games should ever force you to group. I said I enjoy games that promote community interaction. There is more to interacting with other players than just group quests and raids but most MMO's don't seem to have that figured out.

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The great thing about SWTOR is the many methods you can use to hit end-game. One character I played through the story line without any PVP or Flashpoints or anything. Just did mission sets and bonus mission sets when they proc. The next character I played PVP non stop and leveled him to 50 that way (hit 50 Valor at the same time) and did the storyline only while I was waiting in queue for warzones. I ended up popping 50 before I made it to Belsavis, which made finishing the storyline that much easier. Another character I did primarily space combat interspersed with PVP warzones and leveled that way.

Now with legacy you can choose which method gets an xp boost so you can level alts faster using your desired method. I'm just now starting to do the hardmodes with my friends on my original character. I'm also waiting for server transfers to open to allow movement between hevily populated servers so I can consolidate my 50s onto one.

f2p isn't going to effect me at all, as I'll continue to sub. I just started playing STO this weekend and I'm subbing to that as well. I don't believe STO has any perks necessarily for subbing, but I feel like if I do I'll actually play through and enjoy the game, without any limits. Though I wish they wouldn't charge gold members for the master key to unlock Tholian lock boxes.

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My pointisn't that games should ever force you to group. I said I enjoy games that promote community interaction. There is more to interacting with other players than just group quests and raids but most MMO's don't seem to have that figured out.

What about Rift for example as a way to promote community interaction? There are 2 things that spring to mind immediately (I've been playing for a couple weeks now and am level 26):

1) Public Groups - you can set yourself as able to be grouped with at any time. When Rifts spawn in the world and multiple random people converge on the Rift to fight it, you get the option at the top of your screen to join the Public Group, thus creating some interaction and teamwork in order to seal the Rift. Also, there are often zone-wide events that happen where large-scale invasions with dozens of Rifts and Footholds will appear in the zone along with boss-level mobs to be fought off - these are great fun.

2) Instant Adventure - queue up for one and join some random people in completing missions across the zone - these are also fun and provide excellent rewards. In addition, you can often get the help of these random people in completing the quests you already have because these instant adventure quests often involve killing the same mobs you need to kill for your solo quests. Plus, these are very quick - I did a series of 2 instant adventures in a row (again, very low barrier to entry - complete the last adventure in the series and get an option to Teleport straight back to a starting area for a new series, and they are different, not the same repeating quests) and it took me about 30-45 minutes to do.

I think where Rift has succeeded is that the barrier to group play is so low that it doesn't make sense not to do it. I generally prefer to level solo and then group at end-game to experience the end-game content. However, I find myself a part of multiple groups every time I play because of these random encounters that happen. There are also great incentives to grouping in the rewards that are available - Rifts are multistage, the later stages are timed, and if you are appropriate level, it's very difficult to beat the timer, which opens up additional bonus stages that increase the rewards, which is a great incentive to group.

I don't disagree that there are other ways to promote community interaction bar grouping, but I think Rift has succeeded in the more traditional "community interaction" of grouping with their no-friction public grouping and providing world events that encourage it and reward it.

That being said, I do agree that SWTOR has failed in this regard. A trip to the official forums is painful with the amount of hate, venom and general douchebaggery that is on display there. And the in-game community in some cases is almost as bad.

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Since the ship restriction locks me between the Fleet and Dromund Kaas, I decided to take a look at the other side: the Republic.

Made a Mirialan Trooper called Posix and oh, my stars and garters... what a really nice guy. Saving babies and stuff.

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What about Rift for example as a way to promote community interaction? There are 2 things that spring to mind immediately (I've been playing for a couple weeks now and am level 26):

1) Public Groups - you can set yourself as able to be grouped with at any time. When Rifts spawn in the world and multiple random people converge on the Rift to fight it, you get the option at the top of your screen to join the Public Group, thus creating some interaction and teamwork in order to seal the Rift. Also, there are often zone-wide events that happen where large-scale invasions with dozens of Rifts and Footholds will appear in the zone along with boss-level mobs to be fought off - these are great fun.

2) Instant Adventure - queue up for one and join some random people in completing missions across the zone - these are also fun and provide excellent rewards. In addition, you can often get the help of these random people in completing the quests you already have because these instant adventure quests often involve killing the same mobs you need to kill for your solo quests. Plus, these are very quick - I did a series of 2 instant adventures in a row (again, very low barrier to entry - complete the last adventure in the series and get an option to Teleport straight back to a starting area for a new series, and they are different, not the same repeating quests) and it took me about 30-45 minutes to do.

I think where Rift has succeeded is that the barrier to group play is so low that it doesn't make sense not to do it. I generally prefer to level solo and then group at end-game to experience the end-game content. However, I find myself a part of multiple groups every time I play because of these random encounters that happen. There are also great incentives to grouping in the rewards that are available - Rifts are multistage, the later stages are timed, and if you are appropriate level, it's very difficult to beat the timer, which opens up additional bonus stages that increase the rewards, which is a great incentive to group.

I don't disagree that there are other ways to promote community interaction bar grouping, but I think Rift has succeeded in the more traditional "community interaction" of grouping with their no-friction public grouping and providing world events that encourage it and reward it.

That being said, I do agree that SWTOR has failed in this regard. A trip to the official forums is painful with the amount of hate, venom and general douchebaggery that is on display there. And the in-game community in some cases is almost as bad.

I agree with on SWTOR. I started to hate this game once I got to 50. Almost no one wants to group unless your geared when they forget the whole point of the raids and instances is to be geared. Rift has done alot to get players past the grouping up thing. My only gripe in Rift is all the healer abuse going on. They expect way too much out of healers.

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I guess what I'm getting at, and correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've heard, MMO's, like WoW for example, normally have dynamic content. Maybe I'm wrong, but I heard that quite often WoW Game/Dungeon/whatever masters...(lets call them server admins) frequently put new missions or quests into the game...or made monsters appear to challenge players. This made the game dynamic and brought new content in all the time. Again, If I'm wrong, forgive me, but that's what I was told (not being an MMO player). Contrast that with SWTOR, which, at least for the sniper class, was a pretty boring story line up until the end. After that, yeah you have FP's and Raids, but there were what, maybe 20 total? After 2-3 weeks, they were all done, and repeated multiple times. No new gear, no new missions.

Patch 1.2 came out, added like 2 more missions, a few new gear items, legacy mode, whatever...but in the end it didn't really change that much, unless maybe you had multiple characters to take advantage of the legacy system, but TBH, with how tedious it was leveling to 50 (having to walk everywhere because speeders weren't allowed in certain places), I would NOT do it again just to get 2+ more toons.

you can take this with a grain of salt, since I've admitted I don't like MMO's. I skipped WoW, was convinced to try SWTOR, but it couldn't keep my attention. I will say that I did alpha/beta test two other MMO's that never went live, and while I actually like those, SWTOR just doesn't have enough to keep me in.

this is pretty much exactly how i feel, never was into mmos, got suckered into buying this game. Was fun for a while, got real boring, had to grind to level up finally hit 50 and havent played much since then, dont feel like grinding my way through another character because its just so boring sometimes and having to speeder and walk everywhere got really boring on some maps, i probably wont renew when my sub is up but i dunno

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I agree with on SWTOR. I started to hate this game once I got to 50. Almost no one wants to group unless your geared when they forget the whole point of the raids and instances is to be geared. Rift has done alot to get players past the grouping up thing. My only gripe in Rift is all the healer abuse going on. They expect way too much out of healers.

Every MMO wants a lot out of heals, it's never the crappy DPS fault or the tank that can't hold agro to save his life. Thus is the life of the healer.

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What about Rift for example as a way to promote community interaction? There are 2 things that spring to mind immediately (I've been playing for a couple weeks now and am level 26):

1) Public Groups - you can set yourself as able to be grouped with at any time. When Rifts spawn in the world and multiple random people converge on the Rift to fight it, you get the option at the top of your screen to join the Public Group, thus creating some interaction and teamwork in order to seal the Rift. Also, there are often zone-wide events that happen where large-scale invasions with dozens of Rifts and Footholds will appear in the zone along with boss-level mobs to be fought off - these are great fun.

2) Instant Adventure - queue up for one and join some random people in completing missions across the zone - these are also fun and provide excellent rewards. In addition, you can often get the help of these random people in completing the quests you already have because these instant adventure quests often involve killing the same mobs you need to kill for your solo quests. Plus, these are very quick - I did a series of 2 instant adventures in a row (again, very low barrier to entry - complete the last adventure in the series and get an option to Teleport straight back to a starting area for a new series, and they are different, not the same repeating quests) and it took me about 30-45 minutes to do.

I think where Rift has succeeded is that the barrier to group play is so low that it doesn't make sense not to do it. I generally prefer to level solo and then group at end-game to experience the end-game content. However, I find myself a part of multiple groups every time I play because of these random encounters that happen. There are also great incentives to grouping in the rewards that are available - Rifts are multistage, the later stages are timed, and if you are appropriate level, it's very difficult to beat the timer, which opens up additional bonus stages that increase the rewards, which is a great incentive to group.

I don't disagree that there are other ways to promote community interaction bar grouping, but I think Rift has succeeded in the more traditional "community interaction" of grouping with their no-friction public grouping and providing world events that encourage it and reward it.

That being said, I do agree that SWTOR has failed in this regard. A trip to the official forums is painful with the amount of hate, venom and general douchebaggery that is on display there. And the in-game community in some cases is almost as bad.

Rift did an awesome job at it. The problem was that they were so prevalent they lost their significance and at some points impeded questing. The other result of this high-frequency is there is no attachment to groups you do form. I don't I ever once cared about who I got grouped with in Rift nor did I make it a point to stick around with them. The only game where I made any friends in-game was Eve. That and Phantasy Star.

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Star Wars: The Old Republic goes free-to-play on November 15

One question has been on the minds of Star Wars: The Old Republic fans recently: "Has BioWare announced a free-to-play date?" The answer to that question is finally yes. On Thursday, November 15th,SWTOR launches what Senior Producer Blaine Christine calls its "free-to-play option."

Christine and Producer Cory Butler discussed F2P and Update 1.5 with us yesterday. They explained that BioWare is looking to expose its game to the widest audience possible, so it is allowing everyone to download the game for no charge, then play the level 1-to-50 game without having to purchase anything. The producers also gave us a tour of the SWTOR cash shop, called the Cartel Market, and introduced us to Cartel Coins, the cash shop currency.

More info can be found at http://www.swtor.com/free

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SWTOR has probably the worst F2P design I've ever seen. You can barely play the game at all.

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Oh man.. this poor thing.

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I'll probably end p resubscribing around that time anyway, all the other MMOs are crap.

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I do agree there is not one good MMO out right now worth spending money on thats for sure, but I was really looking forward to going back to SWTOR because I miss some of it, but with these limitations its only a matter of time before it dies completely

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I do agree there is not one good MMO out right now worth spending money on thats for sure

WoW still is. MoP is great.

The Once and Future King

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WoW is boring, SWTOR is much better honestly.

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WoW is boring, SWTOR is much better honestly.

Not really. You get to level 50, complete content in a month, and then there's nothing left to do.

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Sure there is. There's plenty to do after 50.. WoW however I'm struggling to even find the want to get to 50 much less 90.

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tumblr_m4dnjy0Krd1r7rf54.jpg

Well, I can't say the free-to-play is really that bad.

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I'm subscribed now again anyway, subscribed during the weekend as it's still the best MMO around, certainly kicks WoW's ass for fun and interesting gameplay, Secret World could have been a competitor, but it's struggling in a few important areas. still fun but not as fun as SWTOR.

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Well, I can't say the free-to-play is really that bad.

Oh please, it's awful. They restrict you so much that you have to pay just to be able to enjoy the game.

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