Android : Open Source ? Not any more

[tiagosilva29]

And what are these more 'open' platforms you speak of?

There is only one truly open platform for mobiles.

[Subject Delta]

From the Article:

"For now, only a privileged few hardware vendors will have access to Honeycomb while the rest are left with uncertainty about the future of the platform."

Sounds like it's finished to me and Google doesn't wanna share the goodies. Bait and switch? Build an ecosystem on freedom for all then as it builds popularity turn it in to something you can leverage. I wonder how much those few privileged hardware vendors are paying Google for exclusive rights.

Don't be Evil? - Just bull**** really.

Evidently you just ignored where Google said "it will be published when it is ready".

[Vice]

Evidently you just ignored where Google said "it will be published when it is ready".

Evidently you just ignored the bit where the article said "For now, only a privileged few hardware vendors will have access to Honeycomb".

It's already ready.

[Subject Delta]

Evidently you just ignored the bit where the article said "For now, only a privileged few hardware vendors will have access to Honeycomb".

It's already ready.

Google took that position because most of the custom development done from AOSP is done on phones, and there are still some bugs prevalent when Honeycomb is used on lower resolution phone displays, which Google are attempting to fix before they drop the code into AOSP. But never let the facts get in the way of a good story, huh?

?Android 3.0, Honeycomb, was designed from the ground up for devices with larger screen sizes and improves on Android favorites such as widgets, multi-tasking, browsing, notifications and customization,? a company spokesperson said in an emailed statement. ?While we?re excited to offer these new features to Android tablets, we have more work to do before we can deliver them to other device types including phones. Until then, we?ve decided not to release Honeycomb to open source. We?re committed to providing Android as an open platform across many device types and will publish the source as soon as it?s ready.?

Source

Would it kill people to get the facts, in their entirety before they jump to laughable assumptions?

[alexalex]

Google took that position because most of the custom development done from AOSP is done on phones, and there are still some bugs prevalent when Honeycomb is used on lower resolution phone displays, which Google are attempting to fix before they drop the code into AOSP. But never let the facts get in the way of a good story, huh?

Source

Would it kill people to get the facts, in their entirety before they jump to laughable assumptions?

I don't understand why everyone is bringing the HC. HC is just a small example. The whole Android ecosystem is going "close" platform, with Google trying to go Apple/Microsoft way, after luringg people with "I am Open" OS.

In a truly open OS no OEM should have been allowed by Google to block ROM installation (like Motorola and HTC do).

[Vice]

Google took that position because most of the custom development done from AOSP is done on phones, and there are still some bugs prevalent when Honeycomb is used on lower resolution phone displays, which Google are attempting to fix before they drop the code into AOSP. But never let the facts get in the way of a good story, huh?

Source

Would it kill people to get the facts, in their entirety before they jump to laughable assumptions?

So what you are saying is because Honeycomb isn't yet ready for Phones Google wont give the source out so that modders can't release half-working honeycomb phones? :laugh:

This discussion is about Honeycomb for tablets it doesn't matter what people do with it, it should be open. If one OEM has access to it for their tablet it should be open for all other tablet manufacturers to use. This is giving a few choice partners a monopoly. I know you love Android a lot but your starting to sound like one of those Apple apologisers. Wrong is wrong don't make concessions.

[Subject Delta]

This discussion is about Honeycomb for tablets it doesn't matter what people do with it, it should be open. If one OEM has access to it for their tablet it should be open for all other tablet manufacturers to use. This is giving a few choice partners a monopoly. I know you love Android a lot but your starting to sound like one of those Apple apologisers. Wrong is wrong don't make concessions.

So because I actually see the facts put before me rather than some conspiracy that makes it easier to hate Google I am suddenly an apologist now, huh? funny.

[nubs]

So what you are saying is because Honeycomb isn't yet ready for Phones Google wont give the source out so that modders can't release half-working honeycomb phones? :laugh:

This discussion is about Honeycomb for tablets it doesn't matter what people do with it, it should be open. If one OEM has access to it for their tablet it should be open for all other tablet manufacturers to use. This is giving a few choice partners a monopoly. I know you love Android a lot but your starting to sound like one of those Apple apologisers. Wrong is wrong don't make concessions.

First of all, the article says Google is giving a few choice companies access but there are no sources for that being true, it's completely conjecture. Second the version of Honeycomb that was released on the Xoom was a customized version with cut corners to make it work for a tight release schedule. To give that source out would be irresponsible because it wouldn't work correctly with other hardware, really what is so freaking hard to understand about this situation fellas? What's so infuriating about this entire discussion is that Google has explained why they are doing this and in their own words are going to release the source code... and yet you continue to argue it's not open because you don't have it in your hands yet. Really, you guys feel the need to deface Google based on nothing but conjecture?

[Southern Patriot]

Why is it googles fault that the phone manufacturers who have access to the source dont want to port it to their phones, its a tactic to make people buy a new phone.

It's Google's fault because they had it within their power to require OEMs to release updates for their phones prior to granting them a license for Android, yet they didn't.

[TheLegendOfMart]

It's Google's fault because they had it within their power to require OEMs to release updates for their phones prior to granting them a license for Android, yet they didn't.

Pretty sure Google couldnt force OEMs to provide free upgrades any more than Microsoft could force people like Dell to provide an update to Windows 8 for all their computers.

[Subject Delta]

It's Google's fault because they had it within their power to require OEMs to release updates for their phones prior to granting them a license for Android, yet they didn't.

The source for Android is open. Google only supply licenses for the "Google experience" apps... IE the Android market, Maps, Youtube ETC

[Southern Patriot]

Tell me something, how has fragmentation hurt your user experience? Because I often hear people complain about fragmentation but they can never explain why it's a problem. I would just like to point out taht 90% of Android users are on 2.0+. That's less fragmentation than iOS users. Companies providing their own layers (Launchers) on top of Android is not fragmentation. I think that people really don't know what fragmentation means.

If you ever notice, most of the fragmentation complaints come from the US, where carriers are JUST NOW releasing 2.2 updates for many phones (including ones that had 2.2 from the start in other parts of the world). And the 2.2 update that the carrier for my wife's HTC Desire released had the wifi tethering feature removed completely (not just hidden, it is GONE). And with all of the crap that they install by default, there is very little room left for installing apps from the market, even with the ability in 2.2 to (partially) install apps to the SD card. Oh, and of course with the new hboot in this update, rooting with Unrevoked is no longer possible either. Fun all around.

[Southern Patriot]

the cause of your issues is that you have an obsolete phone that is no longer supported by the device manufacturer.

Wait, you are going to call the HTC Desire "obsolete" when it is still one of the top end phones being sold? Our carrier JUST released a 2.2 update for it, and given their past track record with updates for other phones, that is likely the only one we will ever get (probably no chance of ever seeing 2.3, much less 3.0).

[Subject Delta]

If you ever notice, most of the fragmentation complaints come from the US, where carriers are JUST NOW releasing 2.2 updates for many phones (including ones that had 2.2 from the start in other parts of the world). And the 2.2 update that the carrier for my wife's HTC Desire released had the wifi tethering feature removed completely (not just hidden, it is GONE). And with all of the crap that they install by default, there is very little room left for installing apps from the market, even with the ability in 2.2 to (partially) install apps to the SD card. Oh, and of course with the new hboot in this update, rooting with Unrevoked is no longer possible either. Fun all around.

That's why you wait for a modded 2.2 distribution if you have a rooted phone.

[Southern Patriot]

That's why you wait for a modded 2.2 distribution if you have a rooted phone.

Did you miss the next to last sentence of my post? The new version of hboot that was included with the update is (so far) unrootable. This happened to both US Cellular and Cellular South HTC Desire users here in the US when they released their 2.2 updates in the last couple of months. Hopefully the Unrevoked team will find a solution soon.

[apowers]

There is only one truly open platform for mobiles.

and MeeGo but Nokia decided to throw a diamond in the trash.

[I am Reid]

maybe, just maybe open source isnt always the best way to go. Also, why does every single update google put out seem to break all kinds compatability, which then requires carriers to recode their software just to work with a .1 upgrade.

[nubs]

Wait, you are going to call the HTC Desire "obsolete" when it is still one of the top end phones being sold? Our carrier JUST released a 2.2 update for it, and given their past track record with updates for other phones, that is likely the only one we will ever get (probably no chance of ever seeing 2.3, much less 3.0).

Yes I am saying that. Think about how fast these companies churn out new phones. the life-cycle of these phones is only a few months, the manufacturers don't want to spend resources supporting phones that are by definition obsolete and no longer making them money. You tell me from a business perspective... if every cell manufacturer out there is only supporting their phones sparingly, where is the benefit to spending money on a phone that is no longer in production? I'm not saying this is the right thing or even a good thing. I'm simply stating from a business perspective this is how they operate.

[nubs]

Did you miss the next to last sentence of my post? The new version of hboot that was included with the update is (so far) unrootable. This happened to both US Cellular and Cellular South HTC Desire users here in the US when they released their 2.2 updates in the last couple of months. Hopefully the Unrevoked team will find a solution soon.

5 minutes of searching and I found a way to root the phone even with the read only NAND. Your phone is rootable.

http://theunlockr.com/2010/09/20/how-to-root-the-htc-desire-unrevoked-method/

You're welcome.

[Subject Delta]

Did you miss the next to last sentence of my post? The new version of hboot that was included with the update is (so far) unrootable. This happened to both US Cellular and Cellular South HTC Desire users here in the US when they released their 2.2 updates in the last couple of months. Hopefully the Unrevoked team will find a solution soon.

I'm presuming your phone wasn't rooted to begin with then? New HBOOT files are almost always provided with updates, you should have checked BEFORE you flashed the upsate

[Southern Patriot]

I'm presuming your phone wasn't rooted to begin with then? New HBOOT files are almost always provided with updates, you should have checked BEFORE you flashed the upsate

Yes, unfortunately, since this is our first Android phone, we weren't aware that the new hboot was going to break the ability to root, especially considering the Unrevoked site implies that it can root HTC phones on 2.2, and never explicitly states on the info page that it cannot root that particular version. We actually had our previous HTC Desire rooted, but it developed a problem with wifi and the SD card, so we got it replace under warranty. The OTA update came in shortly after we got the new one back and I had not gotten around to rooting it before the update got installed. We also didn't know ahead of time that our carrier was going to disable the wifi tethering feature (since the only other CDMA carrier here in the US for this phone didn't disable it).

5 minutes of searching and I found a way to root the phone even with the read only NAND. Your phone is rootable.

http://theunlockr.com/2010/09/20/how-to-root-the-htc-desire-unrevoked-method/

You're welcome.

Sorry, but that info is now out of date when talking about Cellular South or US Cellular HTC Desires on 2.2. They are using hboot 1.06.000, not 0.93, therefore Unrevoked WILL NOT root the phone right now if it wasn't already S-OFF before applying the 2.2 update.

I can, supposedly, get temporary root with Visionary+ and will be trying it later today when my wife gets home with the phone. Hopefully it will work well enough to get one of the wifi tethering apps from the market working (which requires root). The other temporary root I tried (Z4Root) wouldn't work for it.

[Stetson]

Yes I am saying that. Think about how fast these companies churn out new phones. the life-cycle of these phones is only a few months, the manufacturers don't want to spend resources supporting phones that are by definition obsolete and no longer making them money. You tell me from a business perspective... if every cell manufacturer out there is only supporting their phones sparingly, where is the benefit to spending money on a phone that is no longer in production? I'm not saying this is the right thing or even a good thing. I'm simply stating from a business perspective this is how they operate.

Yep, and this is the biggest difference between Android and iPhone software support. Apple's iPhone software support period is I believe two years (the length of a standard cell contract). With a new phone released once a year, your iPhone is the flagship supported model for a full 12 months, and then gets an addition 12 months of support minus features that require newer hardware. With most Android phone manufacturers they're concentrating all of their attention on marketing a new phone every three to four months.

[Southern Patriot]

I can, supposedly, get temporary root with Visionary+ and will be trying it later today when my wife gets home with the phone. Hopefully it will work well enough to get one of the wifi tethering apps from the market working (which requires root). The other temporary root I tried (Z4Root) wouldn't work for it.

Sorry for replying to myself, but just wanted to point out that I tried Visionary+ and it slowed the phone to a crawl!!! It made it completely unuseable, so I gave up on that avenue for rooting and removed it. Here's hoping that the Unrevoked team can find a way around this problem soon.

[Subject Delta]

Yes, unfortunately, since this is our first Android phone, we weren't aware that the new hboot was going to break the ability to root, especially considering the Unrevoked site implies that it can root HTC phones on 2.2, and never explicitly states on the info page that it cannot root that particular version. We actually had our previous HTC Desire rooted, but it developed a problem with wifi and the SD card, so we got it replace under warranty. The OTA update came in shortly after we got the new one back and I had not gotten around to rooting it before the update got installed. We also didn't know ahead of time that our carrier was going to disable the wifi tethering feature (since the only other CDMA carrier here in the US for this phone didn't disable it).

Sorry, but that info is now out of date when talking about Cellular South or US Cellular HTC Desires on 2.2. They are using hboot 1.06.000, not 0.93, therefore Unrevoked WILL NOT root the phone right now if it wasn't already S-OFF before applying the 2.2 update.

I can, supposedly, get temporary root with Visionary+ and will be trying it later today when my wife gets home with the phone. Hopefully it will work well enough to get one of the wifi tethering apps from the market working (which requires root). The other temporary root I tried (Z4Root) wouldn't work for it.

Have you tried looking or asking on XDA-Devs, sometimes it's possible to downgrade your HBOOT.

[shtraue]

Very good article on the matter - Android, Openness: Must and Should:

Is Android still open now that Google has postponed the source code release of Honeycomb, version 3.0 of the mobile operating system? I've been reading a whole boatload of articles and blog posts on the web claiming Android is no longer open, but it seems like very few people seem to actually understand what 'open' really means when it comes to the GPL and the Apache license. Here's a short primer.