Review

Member Reviews: Windows 8.1 - Desktop lovers rejoice

Today we have a brief review from Lone Wanderer Chicken in our Reviews by Members for Members forum that puts a user perspective on the Windows 8.1 upgrade.

We've covered Windows 8.1 extensively ourselves, you can check out our Everything you need to know about the Windows 8.1 release here- but a real world user perspective on the update is also what people may want to read about. 

We consider all reviews that are submitted here for the front page, usually at the weekend. So if you've recently bought a new gadget and you're impressed, or even disappointed by it, let the community know by submitting a review; your review might get featured on the front page!

I have successfully installed  Windows 8.1 via the Windows store on my laptop. I had Windows 8 installed and it didn't appease me fully especially on my laptop. Windows 8.1 will ease any qualms people had with Windows8. Windows 8.1 feels like Windows 8 done right for both desktop users and tablet users.

Installation

Windows 8.1 first is downloaded via the Windows Store then it installs like a ordinary Windows installation. Windows 8.1 installed on my laptop successfully and all my programs work.

If you are using Windows 8, you can download Windows 8.1 for free at www.microsoft.com. The full Windows 8.1 upgrade can also be purchased.

Modern Interface

The modern interface is much more matured with some very nice new features. You can customize tile size, categorize tiles etc. Instead of having to right click to view all apps, there is a down button. When you right click using a mouse now, a customize option appears.  There are many nice apps like calculator, alarm, food and drink, alarms and much more. You can set your desktop background as the start screen which is a plus. The tiles are also more colorful than in Windows 8, and have various colors than one uniformed color. There are a lot more customization features for the start screen. A lot of PC settings are moved into the modern PC settings such as resolutions settings. Resolution settings are also on the desktop as well.

Read the rest of the review ->

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downloaded and installed the 8.1 upgrade from the store...thought i would check the size of the windows folder and mine is 12.9gb wow!!! makes one wonder how this is going to run after say 6 months with updates and stuff loaded

I love Windows 8.1! I haven't even reinstalled Startisback+ on to it. No need for that anymore, now that I can boot to desktop and disable hot corners.

I would like the return of Aero with blur as an option for the desktop. Even Apple followed Windows 7's lead in regard to glass for iOS7, so it's not about battery life etc. It was about forcing everyone to standardize around a child's concept of an OS.

IE11 developer tools' emulator sucks though... so buggy...
All hell breaks loose when you choose to emulate windows phone....

even IE10's developer tools didn't suck so badly....

My quick look

Pros:
-Explorer proved more stable than previous releases (imo).
-Msconfig's functions are placed in more convenient places like task manager.
-Some programs that never installed in Vista/7 started working again in Win8/.1 (driver storage error that was all too common). Networking is much more consistent and reliable. -Some default settings and drivers trump Manufacturer versions.
-You still have the ability to install 3rd party tools for your "special needs".
-Live Tiles breathed life back into RSS feeds.

Cons:
-Windows Defender works behind the scenes instead of where I can monitor it
(can't install Security Essentials version).
-Recovery features don't work most of the time, so protect yourself in Win8.
-Built in "3D Gun" detection prevents you from printing The Liberator.
-Typing something in Start Menu Win7 brought up your program immediately, not so much in Win 8.
-Some features have alternate names, hard to find.

As for functionality, it's pretty much the same as Windows 7. Programs open in a window, use file and exit or the Red X to quit. More programs will work in Windows 8 than were allowed in Windows 7. It's worth the upgrade and probably necessary for some who were relying on XP to run certain things that didn't work in Vista/7. Try it and form your own opinion.

Izlude said,
My quick look
(can't install Security Essentials version).

Isn't the "new" Defender in Windows8 already the same as security essentials (maybe sans the UI…)

Microsoft may have had it correct with its thinking of the "convergence" of phones, tablets, laptops, and desktops--in that one Operating System could work on all four platforms. Where they really screwed up was in their attempt at making one UI for all devices. A "one size fits all" UI can't and never will work equally well for all devices. Why didn't Microsoft give installers the choice of UI to use?? One simple questions would have save everyone a whole lot of needless aggravation. The response to the question should have been as follows: phone, tablet, laptop: touch-centric, laptop/desktop: keyboard/mouse-centric. Anyway, Microsoft didn't and we are seeing and suffering the consequences.

Network shares are bit broke or at least weird.

I have a WD TV Live. Accessing the network share required me to use my old username "Bob" and my Microsoft Live account password. Using my Microsoft Live account's username with it did not work.

+1 cannot access shares on my home network when using a Microsoft account, even ones that don't need a username/password. in fact its like you are being deliberately blocked. No problems if you have logged in to windows with a local account. I thought this issue would be fixed in the 8.1 update.

Mr_Self_Destruct said,
+1 cannot access shares on my home network when using a Microsoft account, even ones that don't need a username/password. in fact its like you are being deliberately blocked. No problems if you have logged in to windows with a local account. I thought this issue would be fixed in the 8.1 update.

Use the credential manager in Control Panel to save local login/pass for server/shares.. It's been around for awhile now and works just fine.

xendrome said,

Use the credential manager in Control Panel to save local login/pass for server/shares.. It's been around for awhile now and works just fine.

Yep, tried that. I think the problem is a network or a firewall bug as most of the time you cannot even access another computer and you get the chance to "diagnose problem" but intermittently it works just fine. I set up a printer and 5 minutes later cannot connect to it, all very odd. But these problems go away when you are logged on as local account.

again another person that doesn't know the difference between an os and a ui, you can configure windows 8.1 to not show any modern ui at all if you like and that way you have an os that yes is superior to windows 7 in pretty much every way.

The one odd thing is that the Store app keeps launching for no reason (while in desktop mode).

The tweaks they made would be good if I used the Start Screen and the control panel/options are much better... but in the end of the day, I'm back to desktop mode with Start8 and barely notice anything.

If you're a Linux user that has disabled SceureBoot, watch out for 8.1. There's a permanent warning that SecureBoot isn't configured properly on the desktop.

Anyone find a way to get rid of this without enabling SecureBoot or resorting to using a resource editor?

Still can't see the point of the tiles UNLESS you have a touch screen monitor.....

I'll be sticking with Win 7 Ultimate x64

Baked said,
Still can't see the point of the tiles UNLESS you have a touch screen monitor.....

I'll be sticking with Win 7 Ultimate x64

What's the difference between them and an icon?

Dot Matrix said,

What's the difference between them and an icon?

Well for one, when you click on a desktop shortcut you don't get thrown into a different computing environment.

They provide a way to "see into an app" without opening an app, i.e. saving you time. For example, if all you were going to do when you opened the mail app was to check for new mails, the Live Tile would tell you that before you opened the app.

I would have been happy with Windows 8 and 8.1 but the few issues that bother me have still not been fixed or are now even worse than before:

1. On all of my desktop computers, I am not able to disable the system-wide spell checker. I know that there is a workaround somewhere in the internet that makes you delete some dll files, yet, I shouldn't have to! (BTW: tried it once and, after reboot, typing was a nightmare. It seemed like the system was constantly looking for the renamed spell checker libraries.)

2. The Mail app has gotten worse. No more can I see my folders at a glance. Instead, I now have to click on "FOLDERS" (which is a sub-link under the EMAIL icon) - am additional step just to see if there is anything in the junk folder. My first point plays tricks on me as well when trying to write an email in another language.

3. People
Really? I still can't display contacts by LAST NAME, FIRST NAME? Wow ... !

4. Device Synching
Good idea but permanently screws me over! I have 4 desktops in different languages and with different lang keyboards, 2 laptops amd a tablet. On every single one, the synch tries to restore the settings from the computer I've used last - ... all of them! My only choice is to disable synching but then, what is W8x good for?

I have a couple of more things and, as of now, the annoyances outweight the benefits for me. I was on Windows 8 until the update to 8.1 and I really hoped that at least the spell checker would be fixed but nope ...

Currently, I rolled back to Windows 7 and will stay there until a SP comes out for 8.1. At least I haven't given up hope yet.

1. Settings > Change PC Settings > PC and Devices > Typing > disable Autocorrect and disable Highlight misspelt words

2. I use Outlook 2013 so couldn't comment on using the mail app, I'm sure someone else will know.

3. Load People > Settings > Options > Sort my contacts by surname.

4. As with 2. not a feature I use.

The spell checker and autocorrect can be disabled by pulling up "Change PC Settings", going to "PC and Devices" and then "Typing".

As far as the sync, you can adjust exactly what you want it to sync under the Skydrive section of the pc settings.

I use Office 365 and Outlook, so I don't use those other things. They're pretty stripped end user programs.

ManMountain said,
1. Settings > Change PC Settings > PC and Devices > Typing > disable Autocorrect and disable Highlight misspelt words

2. I use Outlook 2013 so couldn't comment on using the mail app, I'm sure someone else will know.

3. Load People > Settings > Options > Sort my contacts by surname.

4. As with 2. not a feature I use.

1. As I said: disabling doesn't work!

2. I use Outlook too with multiple email addresses, however, my Live email is set up in Mail and would have been very convenient to use if it weren't for the limitations.

3. I know that I can sort my contacts, however, displaying them by last name is not an option.

@Spicoli:
4. No, it doesn't work that simple; especially not if you run multiple computers in different languages.

For the Mail problem, click on Folders and Favourite the folders you want to see in the left pane, and they will stay there permanently. Job done. You can do this to all folders as far as I know.

Tumultus said,

4. Device Synching
Good idea but permanently screws me over! I have 4 desktops in different languages and with different lang keyboards, 2 laptops amd a tablet. On every single one, the synch tries to restore the settings from the computer I've used last - ... all of them! My only choice is to disable synching but then, what is W8x good for?

I found in the Windows 8 settings (app) the option to turn off syncing per feature. So things like WiFi Passwords are being synced to my tablet, but other settings like themes are not connected to the cloud

Love it! The blend of Metro and the desktop is perfect for my devices. I really wish to see more Metro additions going forward, more powerful Metro apps, and maybe even a "panorama" option with the Start Screen, where it can open across all monitors, if a user has such a setup. Something I always thought would be cool.

Now it's just a waiting game for many of the Metro applications to catch up in terms of new features.

Except SkyDrive is now broken if you log in with a "local" account! You have to log in to windows with a microsoft account to have any skydrive functionality. What a joke!

Well, yea. If you want to use all the network sync features, you have to have a common login between all your systems. Having a login for each and every application would be pretty horrible.

That's how it worked in 8, which was much preferred for me. I've found a way around the skydrive issue, but I would prefer to have the desktop app back

MS broke the functionality of the Skydrive desktop app. This could and should still function separately from the Skydrive Windows 8 integration, but it doesnt. So Skydrive via the browser only now because I'm not using my Hotmail account and password on my work computer. Screw that.

Spicoli said,
Well, yea. If you want to use all the network sync features, you have to have a common login between all your systems. Having a login for each and every application would be pretty horrible.

That's not the point. On my home laptop for example I have a basic password, only four characters long. It enables basic privacy while still letting me login quickly. On my skydrive/any other web account I use a password manager to generate secure passwords.

So here I'm met with an issue. Use a MS account and type a 12 character password with special characters, numbers and capitals every single time I log in (And then use the skydrive app), make my online account less secure but easier to use at login or use a local account and lose skydrive functionality. Why couldn't they let you use whatever password you want at login but have you cloud access behind a more robust password while retaining functionality. Logging in shouldn't be a network sync feature!!

Hollow.Droid said,

Why couldn't they let you use whatever password you want at login but have you cloud access behind a more robust password while retaining functionality. Logging in shouldn't be a network sync feature!!

I wonder how big of an issue this actually is. I hope they are taking metrics on Live ID logs a first time Windows 8 install and activation and withing 48 hours the user changes their password. Then they should be able to test the hash to get the complexity of the passwords and compare them.

I know I've thought about changing my super secure password to something easier now.

Hollow.Droid said,

That's not the point. On my home laptop for example I have a basic password, only four characters long. It enables basic privacy while still letting me login quickly. On my skydrive/any other web account I use a password manager to generate secure passwords.

So here I'm met with an issue. Use a MS account and type a 12 character password with special characters, numbers and capitals every single time I log in (And then use the skydrive app), make my online account less secure but easier to use at login or use a local account and lose skydrive functionality. Why couldn't they let you use whatever password you want at login but have you cloud access behind a more robust password while retaining functionality. Logging in shouldn't be a network sync feature!!

Use the pin key feature?

I'm not sure it's really much of an improvement in any way.

You can customize the start tiles a bit more but now they do some odd colour matching for the background for you shortcuts, problem is they only use a couple of colours so Origin ends up with a background that is pretty much the same orange as the icon itself, you'd want the icon to stand out, meanwhile Splinter Cell Blacklist gets a light blue background which really doesn't match the icon at all.

The all apps screen is easier to get to but what does it matter, who uses that anyway when you can just search? The start menu has always been a very messy place and I've never really bothered with the all apps view since Vista added search in the start menu.
This leads to a big issue I have with the update. Hit start and start typing, this will start a search, while the search now searches for settings and files and so on without you having to tell it any more it now also only uses a tiny bit of the screen. They should have used all and had a column for each category it searches in...

Then there are the stupid idea of adding folders to "This PC". I don't exactly mind having the folders there, what I mind is that I need to go in to the registry or use third party apps to change those folders. Even worse is the fact that while I can collapse that view in "This PC" they always show under This PC in the explorer navigation pane.
What they should have done (if anything), and I'm baffled by how they didn't think of it, is just show your favourites in This PC and then kept the favourites and This PC separate in the navigation pane as before.

Overall it's not worse but it isn't better either. Microsoft need to start thinking a bit more about what their doing...

Yeah, why you can't set the icon background color is beyond me. I remove most of the start menu shortcuts and rebuild them with Obly Tile so they look the way I want. Seems like that functionality should have been baked into Windows 8.

I'd ignore the comments and give 8.1 a try to form your own opinion. Most of the people who choose to comment in the Windows 8 threads struggle with change and tend to make a mountain out of every perceived molehill.

Hahaiah said,
Was hoping to finally adopt 8...after reading the comments, think I'll wait...

Indeed, even at hostile fanboy sites such as this one the overwhelming number of users seem to be dissatisfied with windows 8.1.

I would ignore comments for sure and try it for yourself. Windows 8.1 as an OS is the best OS a person can have today. The big problem that most people have and are confusing with the actual OS is the UI and most importantly the modern UI, if you are fine with the modern UI and not a big fan of the start MENU, then windows 8.1 is a vast improvement over windows 7 as an os.

Hahaiah said,
Was hoping to finally adopt 8...after reading the comments, think I'll wait...

Don't bother. The bulk of Neowin can't seem to adapt to change. I wouldn't be surprised if half of them walked around with a catheter with a picture of the Win7 Start menu on it.

I wondered to get a glass of water and my 3.2 year old came to my computer and started playing Where is My Water (I was working on an Excel document)... That is how easy Windows 8 is

The people who like to clinge to the old ways are the ones crying about it.

People saying Start Menu \ All programs \ Games is a more easy way to go about things need to grow up.

I dislike many things about 8; less so with 8.1, but still quite a bit.
However, I've come to that conclusion by giving 8 and 8.1 the benefit of the doubt and using it myself.
It's one thing to hate the OS because you've tried it yourself and disliked it; it's another to hate because of what others have said.

I also want to chime in on people blaming others for "not adapting to change" or "needing to grow up".
Just because you're happy with certain things doesn't mean others need to accept your way.
Debating features is helpful and constructive; attacking/insulting others isn't.
In fact, it sounds as lame as (if not more so than) Mac users chanting "There are no viruses on Mac!"

and why don't you tell me with facts what about the actual Operating System is not great, please don't include anything about the modern interface or the lack of a start menu.

letmesee said,
I also want to chime in on people blaming others for "not adapting to change" or "needing to grow up".
Just because you're happy with certain things doesn't mean others need to accept your way.

Agreed, I take that back.

korupt_one said,
and why don't you tell me with facts what about the actual Operating System is not great, please don't include anything about the modern interface or the lack of a start menu.

I don't see why I can't include anything about the modern interface or the lack of the start menu if it's relevant to the discussion. It's like saying, "Discuss why smoking is bad, but don't include anything about lung cancer".

Also, I don't claim these to be facts, but personal opinions that just so happened to be shared by others as well.

Off the top of my head: Start menu has folders while start screen doesn't.
Imagine not having folders in Explorer. All the start screen has is a rudimentary, one-level hierarchical view called the Semantic zoom.

Use search? Search involves typing. Nothing wrong with that, except with win7, I do 1 tap (start), 1 tap all programs, 1 tap (program folder), 1 tap exe. 4 taps (with my left thumb), and I can navigate to, and start any programs. Compare this with searching with the on-screen keyboard. Searching with a physical keyboard is as fast if not faster, assuming you don't have files with similar names anywhere in your user folder.

Now one would think that using the full screen to display information is better than a narrow start menu, but I disagree. I don't know about you, but I find most of the screen outside of my visual focus, and in my peripheral. So instead of navigating down a single column, I now need to visually navigate across the entire screen.

Another thing: quickly selecting tiles in 8.1 is a step back from 8.0.
In 8.0, I can press the tile and do this downward motion, and it gets selected immediately. But now in 8.1, I need to long press the tile before it enters Customize mode. This is not a problem with a mouse (right click), but definitely is an issue with touch.

Other things that's bugging me: When I'm in snapped mode, there's no way to get to the start screen without going full screen. Case scenario: I'm watching netflix in snapped mode, and need to start something from the start screen. Hitting the start button/charms start brings in the full start screen, which hides the snapped app. And because of the lifecycle of Windows Store apps, many apps would go into suspended mode, and needs to be reinitialised again when brought back. If only we had a start menu that just pops up at the bottom left corner.

I don't hate the OS purely out of fanboyism/haterism. I actually use the OS (in tablet, desktop, RDP, VM) and develop my own likes/dislikes over time.

I also give Microsoft credit where credit is due. For instance, I applaud the return of the start button (easier to use in RDP mode) and the narrow search pane.
Personally, if Win 8/8.1 behaved like it has ModernMix and Start8 installed (as an option), I would be singing praises.

Hahaiah said,
Was hoping to finally adopt 8...after reading the comments, think I'll wait...

I had Windows 8 on my system (I ran a dual-boot, both Win7 Ultimate and Win8 Pro). Note the past tense, there. While Win8 wasn't perfect and had issues, I could deal with them and modify things until they were at a point that I found Win8 productive (skip Start Screen, go straight to desktop, Classic Shell/MetroMix...). All was fine after that point... until Win8.1 arrived. Applications I used started crashing, and since there was no way to reverse the decision, it was wipe, move everything onto Win7 and decide whether to reinstall Win8 and avoid the 8.1 upgrade completely until the issues are fixed.

I also am involved in the pilot program at work to decide if Win 8/8.1 will be deployed into the company. At present, I can assure you that the answer will be a resounding *NO* to that. Far too much compatibility issues, too much training efforts, too many costs bringing older hardware up to speed for Win8... we're just now getting Win7 fully deployed through the company.

So for now, I run under Windows 7 until I decide if a) Windows 8 without the upgrade is worth the effort again, or b) if Windows 8.1 will get fixes applied in the areas where it needs it (compatibility being primary in my mind). Just because a program might have run under Win 7 and/or Win 8 doesn't mean it'll run under 8.1 at all, and that's something I discovered the very hard way.

Windows 8.1 + Classic Shell 4 - Metro Sh*t (Start Screen bypassed, Hot Corners disabled) = WINNER.

Basically, with the above setup you have something like Windows 7.5 ... which works very good! :-)

Now, for Windows 8 annoyances... Too bad that many types are associated with Metro apps. If you double click a photo/video on the desktop, it opens a full screen Metro app. This is disturbing... but thank God apps like Irfan View and GOM Player/VLC exists.
Also, the file type association window (i.e. that appears when you right-click->Open With...) is horrendous as best.

Edited by Dot Catrix, Oct 20 2013, 12:05pm :

Mortis said,

Also, the file type association window (i.e. that appears when you right-click->Open With...) is horrendous as best.

Hold shift when right clicking and you'll get Open with.. everytime

This OS is more like Windows 8 "2 in 1".... feels like two OS-es that have nothing in common where forced to merge.

Hope that Windows 9 will be a lot more cohesive, and the full screen apps on 22''+ monitors madness will stop. (yes, I know you can have two apps side by side... but this is a sad multi-window emulation. I want to be able to float them freely, like on the deskop, ok?).

Spicoli said,
Explain how you would design the default programs dialog to make it easier.

Please take a look at the icons of Google Chrome or Internet Explorer and tell me it they seem ok for you:
http://imgur.com/6pKp1on

And well, to also speak about the "design". Now, if I want to specify an external file/program for association, I have to scroll that window down, click "More options", scroll once again down because the windows lose scroll on refresh, and then click "Look for another app on this PC". This option was clearly visible, from the start, on the same window in Windows 7/Vista/XP etc. Now, is like a hidden setting.

You didn't read my above comment:

And well, to also speak about the "design". Now, if I want to specify an external file/program for association, I have to scroll that window down, click "More options", scroll once again down because the windows lose scroll on refresh, and then click "Look for another app on this PC". This option was clearly visible, from the start, on the same window in Windows 7/Vista/XP etc. Now, is like a hidden setting.

To sum it up, getting things harder to do in new versions = BAD DESIGN.

Mortis said,
Windows 8.1 + Classic Shell 4 - Metro Sh*t (Start Screen bypassed, Hot Corners disabled) = WINNER.

Basically, with the above setup you have something like Windows 7.5 ... which works very good! :-)

Now, for Windows 8 annoyances... Too bad that many types are associated with Metro apps. If you double click a photo/video on the desktop, it opens a full screen Metro app. This is disturbing... but thank God apps like Irfan View and GOM Player/VLC exists.
Also, the file type association window (i.e. that appears when you right-click->Open With...) is horrendous as best.

I uninstalled all the Metro apps that came with Windows 8, then it will open them in the desktop versions without you having to fiddle about.

Spicoli said,
Around it circles - what would be a better design?

How about remove the forced squares Windows 8 puts on all icons. Stop trying to "Metro-fy" everything. The squares work fine on the start screen (Kinda, but that's a whole other topic) so how about keeping the icons as they were originally made if they're not metro specific apps?

As for the default apps picker I completely agree with Mortis. Not only do you have to click more to achieve the same basic result but talk about sticking out like a sore thumb in desktop mode. I understand this is a personal preference and I guess it comes down to whether you view the start screen as the default interface with desktop mode being an app or vice versa but **** man, what exactly was wrong with updating the Windows 7 default app picker to a metro style.

Yes these are small points but they are so damn basic that it boggles the mind. I mean, was the WIndows 7 default app picker that complicated that they needed to dumb it down?

Hollow.Droid said,
How about remove the forced squares Windows 8 puts on all icons.

Windows Icons have ALWAYS been squares…

CSheep said,
8.1 is a nice improvement over 8, although personally I still have to agree with Pogue:

"The fundamental problem with Windows 8 hasn't changed: you're still working in two operating systems at once."
Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10...-2-worlds-of-windows-8.html

Yeah, you can get used to and learn to live with that, but, personally, it's still a long way from how I would prefer it to be.

Personally I don't see it that way anymore, though I get the sentiment. For me, Desktop is akin to another app and I use it right alongside metro apps.

Far from perfect, while indeed there is an improvement by having the start button back, now every time that I open the start screen I feel a "slap on the face", even changing the background to match that of the desktop background. Back to start8 for me, that thing is really unobtrusive.

I won't deny thought, that while I don't use any metro apps, the resizing now can be done up to the size you want, that feels a bit less constrained.

I still need my transparencies back, I'm waiting to Aero Glass to finally get updated and support 8.1

All the stuff that I have to do for what I already had on 7... glad I use 7 for working and 8 only for gaming, hopefully, if SteamOS does succeed... bye bye Windows.

Never said that it was going to replace it, rather, Win8 can go away for gaming and can be replaced by SteamOS, while Windows 7 can be kept for working.

Problem with dual booting? how difficult is to have two OS for completely different needs? YEAH THANKS. This is my PC, bug out of my decisions with it.

Spicoli said,
Bring back the old dual boot days? No thanks.
How often do you play Crysis while working on a Word document also?

This is precisely why pro users are trying to find viable alternatives, such as Start8 and dual booting, the joys of choice freedom.

LOL booting in to SteamOS to play games - An OS that only plays less than 1% of all Windows games... yeah that makes sense! /s

While no doubt also offering worse performance and poor Linux drivers as well.

Even if SteamOS some day could play all Windows games and Linux graphics drivers didn't suck, whats the point of booting in to it if you already have Windows as it can play games fine. Waste of time.

I also wouldn't be surprised if SteamOS is proprietary and closed and only lets you play games on Steam. Either way it's useless. The only people who will use it will be idiots who have something against Windows/Microsoft.

Hobbist users, lol. I change my research and development for whatever "hobbist" work you are trying to figure.

Also nobody has said that windows 7 cannot be used to play games, the older games that is, newer games deserve better than Win8, and that perhaps may be possible thanks to a non linked OS API like AMD's Mantle or a high level API derived from it.

NoClipMode said,
LOL booting in to SteamOS to play games - An OS that only plays less than 1% of all Windows games... yeah that makes sense! /s
.

First rule of development is keep your system stock so you're seeing exactly what your users will see.

Arceles said,
Problem with dual booting? how difficult is to have two OS for completely different needs? YEAH THANKS. This is my PC, bug out of my decisions with it.

Then don't post your decisions on a discussion forum.

The article says: Desktop lovers rejoice.

I don't rejoice at all and I explained why. That's far from different from "you must dual boot!" or "you must not dual boot" as clearly seen in previous posts.

NoClipMode said,
LOL booting in to SteamOS to play games - An OS that only plays less than 1% of all Windows games... yeah that makes sense! /s

While no doubt also offering worse performance and poor Linux drivers as well.

Even if SteamOS some day could play all Windows games and Linux graphics drivers didn't suck, whats the point of booting in to it if you already have Windows as it can play games fine. Waste of time.

I also wouldn't be surprised if SteamOS is proprietary and closed and only lets you play games on Steam. Either way it's useless. The only people who will use it will be idiots who have something against Windows/Microsoft.

Apparently you don't know what you're talking about because not only did Valve port Ledt 4 Dead 2 to Linux and OpenGL, they reported they got it to run at an equal or better frame rate in Ubuntu, without sacrificing features. As SteamOS will be properly supported by vendors Valve have already indicated they are working with I wager it will be just fine

Javik said,

Apparently you don't know what you're talking about because not only did Valve port Ledt 4 Dead 2 to Linux and OpenGL, they reported they got it to run at an equal or better frame rate in Ubuntu, without sacrificing features. As SteamOS will be properly supported by vendors Valve have already indicated they are working with I wager it will be just fine


Yes, a game recently optimized for *latest* OpenGL vs fps count from that game's years of old state for an outdated directx. Makes sense.

The start screen and button SHOULD be a slap in the face to anyone bitching about it. Windows 8 was perfectly fine without a start button. Now, thanks to you idiots who cried, we get to stare at a COMPLETELY ****ING USELESS Windows logo in the bottom left corner of our screens at all times.

Crimson Rain said,

Yes, a game recently optimized for *latest* OpenGL vs fps count from that game's years of old state for an outdated directx. Makes sense.

No, they didn't change the engine radically, they just re-wrote it to use an OpenGL render. Quite honestly how you rationalise it is irrelevant, the fact is their games work as well on Linux as they do on Windows.

Javik said,

No, they didn't change the engine radically, they just re-wrote it to use an OpenGL render. Quite honestly how you rationalise it is irrelevant, the fact is their games work as well on Linux as they do on Windows.


How much you wanna bet that they're using the current revision of OpenGL and not the version that was released around the same time like DX9 (you know the old version that has been there since XP and is extremely outdated…)

Arceles said,
All the stuff that I have to do for what I already had on 7... glad I use 7 for working and 8 only for gaming, hopefully, if SteamOS does succeed... bye bye Windows.

SteamOS may be popular, but it's linux, and not many games are linux based. I see it being used far more as a way to stream your games from your windows pc, to your tv / stereo system. If anything SteamOS might take a little bite out of the console's market share (but not enough to compete with them).

I like Windows 8.1, with Stardock's Start8. The under the hood enhancements in 8x, make the OS feel very snappy and responsive than Win7 on the same hardware (mine).

Javik said,

No, they didn't change the engine radically, they just re-wrote it to use an OpenGL render. Quite honestly how you rationalise it is irrelevant, the fact is their games work as well on Linux as they do on Windows.


Why wont games work as well on Linux (or whatever OS) if you put effort in to it?

It has nothing to do with 50fps boost on Linux than windows.

MFH said,

How much you wanna bet that they're using the current revision of OpenGL and not the version that was released around the same time like DX9 (you know the old version that has been there since XP and is extremely outdated…)

As I said, that really doesn't matter. If the end result is the same, and the games work who cares? I've not seen anyone provide evidence the new versions of Direct X are any better performance wise than the new versions of OpenGL anyway. Most gamers care about results, if it works they will use it. I wager once it's done Source 2 will work just as well in Linux as it does in Windows as well.

Javik said,

As I said, that really doesn't matter. If the end result is the same, and the games work who cares? I've not seen anyone provide evidence the new versions of Direct X are any better performance wise than the new versions of OpenGL anyway. Most gamers care about results, if it works they will use it. I wager once it's done Source 2 will work just as well in Linux as it does in Windows as well.

One of the reason's why I've not switched to linux, is my extensive pc game collection, from dos games to current gen pc games (at least 400+ lost count).

From a technical point of view I feel OpenGL can compete with Direct X, and AMD / Nvidia do support OpenGL hardware acceleration. Direct X, however, is the standard in every game and OpenGL is not always present.

Down the road, it will be curious to see a shift as console's, pc games, and entertainment start going through a convergence.

I honestly can't predict if OpenGL will become as strong or beat DirectX in terms of use before a model of games being streamed from remote location is the norm.

(Edit) Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that Valve / Steam is offering linux native games, offering source engine as linux alternative.

Edited by Jason Stillion, Oct 21 2013, 3:36pm :

Javik said,

As I said, that really doesn't matter.

It starts to matter as soon as you're trying to make an argument about performance!

And as DX10 and later are based on a flexible Shader-based pipeline (opposed to the fixed function pipeline) you can expect better performance (similar how OpenGL switched from FFP to Shaders...)

Crimson Rain said,
OpenGL is just a copycat of DirectX.

OpenGL was initially released in January of 1992.
DirectX was initially released in September of 1995.

Now, if you reverse your statement, you have a more truthful pronouncement.

Tal Greywolf said,

Now, if you reverse your statement, you have a more truthful pronouncement.

Even reversed the statement is simply false…

Tal Greywolf said,

OpenGL was initially released in January of 1992.
DirectX was initially released in September of 1995.

Now, if you reverse your statement, you have a more truthful pronouncement.

OpenGL and DirectX? Who needs that when you have Mode 7 graphics?

.... Your lack of information is astounding. Sine the argument of which API was older corresponds to OpenGL you resolute to use irrational expressions. Mode 7 was good on its time by the way.

Tal Greywolf said,

OpenGL was initially released in January of 1992.
DirectX was initially released in September of 1995.

Now, if you reverse your statement, you have a more truthful pronouncement.


So everyone is a copy cat of the "first" of something?

OpenGL has been trailing in feature to DX for a long time and only has been copying DX features...

tytytucke said,
Really wasn't worth the wait or the commotion. The update just wasn't big enough.

well it was big enough for me. as windows 8 is much faster and stable compared to windows 7 but still gives you frustration. windows 8.1 doesn't have windows 8 frustration but still snappy and stable. so it is a big change. at least for me. honestly I don't see the need for using start 8 anymore.