Which 802.11 protocol required to stream two channels of netflix and serve two surveillance cameras?

[roger2]

My knowledge and experience with WiFi is very limited   Please be patient if I mis-use terminology or mis-understand concepts. I am here to learn.

 

 

My goal is to stream Netflix to two TV's (different channels simultaneously, of course) and wirelessly connect two surveillance cameras.

 

Can this be done with an 802.11n device? 802.11ac?  Is MU-MIMO required?

 

Thanks in advance...

[Shiranui]

You Internet speed is more important.

If spending money on new hardware is an issue, 802.11n should be adequate, but ac offers other benefits, and the better your router the more stable your connections will be when streaming to multiple devices simultaneously. Not all routers are created equal, though.

Given that your usage case is more demanding than most, I'd invest in a higher-end, modern router to avoid hassle down the line.

[CrashG]

8 minutes ago, roger2 said:

My goal is to stream Netflix to two TV's (different channels simultaneously, of course)

Welcome to Neowin and it's ok, a lot of us came here seeking knowledge.. and found it. Now on to your question

How fast is your internet? And at what resolution going to  each tv?

Wireless N should be fine for most .

No issues feeding a smart TV and Raspberry 3 1080p content over a N connection at the same time, from my movie server.

[roger2]

Thanks guys...

 

My internet speed is approximately 50Mbps

Router is a Motorola SBG6580 combo unit that is currently ethernet wired to my PC, and WiFI connected to a TV with a Roku box and working fine.

 

The 2 new TVs to be added to the system will both be connected through Roku Express boxes @ 1080 HD, up to 60fps. And my current plan is to use a wireless access point wired to my router/modem with 100' of Cat6a. There are 4 RJ45 LAN outputs on the router.

 

The existing components are on the right side of the attached diagram. The proposed new additions on the left side.  I am seeking specification requirements for the new WAP.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by roger2

[+BudMan MVC]

It is 2018... Why would anyone be suggesting he buy N anything..

 

But a real AP.. Which anything current would be AC... It will support N..  Shoot the current stuff is wave 2 AC..

 

What is your budget should be the question.  Wave 2 stuff can be a bit pricey... And highly doubtful your gear support it.. Prob doesn't even support AC...

 

That sbg6580... That is a POS! sorry.. specs say its N300.. But its docsis 3 modem that can do 343mbps down..  N300 at best is 150mbps.. real world... So fantastic that the wifi they built in can not even supports is wired speed.. Hey isp I paid for the 300mbps plan... But my wifi device can only do half of it..

 

What does your devices support.. What TV and camera's are you getting.  You have no other wifi devices like phones or tablets going to be using this wifi?  To be honest most of these sorts of iot devices do not support AC even.. But there are no other devices going to be using them?

[roger2]

This is not working. I came here to ask ONE question.

 

Only Crash Gordon has made an inquiry related to answering that question. Netflix claims to only need 5mbps. My internet is 50Mbps.  I did not include that information because that is not related to the question I am asking. If my assumption that a 50Mbps internet connection can not handle 15Mbps of streaming then that is OK, I will figure that out if and when it becomes an issue. Right not that is NOT the question I am asking. The LAN ports on my "POS" SBG6580 are rated 300Mbps, surely one of those ports can handle 10Mbps but again, not related to the one question I am asking. The WiFi on that unit is functioning perfectly with one Netflix channel and the Wifi on that unit will not be affected by the additions I am considering.

 

I am asking a question about ONE thing and one thing only: which WiFi protocol(s) is(are) capable streaming two channels of Netflix? Please someone answer that question in isolation to any other considerations.

 

I have been reading manufacturer product literature what has me doubting that ANYTHING less than MU-MIMO will be capable of streaming two channels of Netflix. Logic tell me this is wrong but I don't know that for certain. Please someone simply answer the question that I am asking, and not questions that I am not asking. Please don't make assumptions.

 

Is 802.11b capable of streaming Netflix to two TVs?

Is 802.11g capable of streaming Netflix to two TV's?

Is 802.11n capable of streaming Netflix to two TVs?

Is 802.11ac capable of streaming Netflix to two TVs?

 

@CrashGordon - none of the attitude displayed above is directed at you. I have been trying to get a simple answer to a simple question for over a week and am very frustrated.

 

 

[+BudMan MVC]

b and g are DEAD... Doesn't matter what they can do from a streaming point of view from bandwidth standpoint

 

n can support in what mode? N150, N300... Highly unlikely your TVs would be 3 or 4 stream capable or what is called N450 or N600.

 

I would assume your TVs are 2.4 single stream.. So that would be a shared bandwidth of 65mbps PHY... In realworld more like 30mbps, shared with 2 devices your looking at about 15mbps..

 

Per the netflix page

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/306

 

Below are the internet download speed recommendations per stream for playing TV shows and movies through Netflix.

0.5 Megabits per second - Required broadband connection speed

1.5 Megabits per second - Recommended broadband connection speed

3.0 Megabits per second - Recommended for SD quality

5.0 Megabits per second - Recommended for HD quality

25 Megabits per second - Recommended for Ultra HD quality

 

I would say you could prob do HD... But unlikely netfix would be 60fps... Nor would they be able to do UltraHD...

 

As to your camera's also sharing this 30mbps your going to have if 1 stream of N, lets call it 2 streams or N150, at 20mhz and long guard that is only 130 PHY shared... your still sharing like 60mbps, which while higher than internet... What else is using your internet and what do your camera's use.. If 1080P 60fps... What does the camera makers quote for their required bandwidth?  What compression are they using, are they using h.264? etc. etc..

 

While you might think its a simple question - sorry it is not with the information given.

 

If all you want to know is what the different n,ac of wireless can do - here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11n-2009

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ac

 

Both of those gives you the numbers for both n and ac..

 

Keep in mind that PHY is not real world speed.. The numbers given like N300 what your router lists is pretty much marketing nonsense using the total in theory bandwidth.. Not all the overhead, etc..  And you need to understand what your clients are going to be using 1 or 2 streams.  20 or 40mhz channels, etc. etc.. While 40mhz is capable on 5ghz N.. It's not really viable on 2.4ghz... even if some wifi routers/ap allow for that setting.  Depends on the client... Also what sort of wifi noise is in your area? 

 

Lets not forget that slow clients will bring down the available bandwidth to all clients on the wifi network.. You have 1 device that that has a ###### connection so it slows down its connection rate.. Brings down the total available bandwidth that is shared by all devices. 

[CrashG]

2 hours ago, roger2 said:

Is 802.11n capable of streaming Netflix to two TVs?

Is 802.11ac capable of streaming Netflix to two TVs?

Simple answer is Yes, but... as Budman pointed out, it's not quite as simple a question as it may seem and several factors need to be taken into consideration

[+BudMan MVC]

Where are you camera's sending their streams.. If to some local NVR, is this also wireless?  Is it in the cloud? lets call your 1080p 6mbps... What action is happening on the camera's - if nothing is moving their their required bandwidth will be much lower.. But lets say there is lots of movement/action going on and they eat up 12mbps of your lets call it available 30.. That leaves you much lower amount of bandwidth for your netflix streams..

 

Is something watching the camera streams from the NVR?  Are they also wireless or just on your PC.. Where again is the NVR?  more and more variables that come into play.

 

Maybe your PC is running p2p and eating up all your internet?  Now doesn't matter what your wifi capable of doing your streaming of netflix is going to get hit..

 

You wouldn't be here asking the question if your current wifi worked - so guessing they are 2 far away? There is lots of interference? Your internet pipe is saturated with something else? etc..

 

So lets take the simple answer and say that N can do the job.. So get xyz AP that is N300 like your current router..  Then you come back and say you guys said N accesspoint could do it.. Then your mad at us again

 

This is a forum for discussion..  Your not asking us what 2+2 =, your asking us to solve for X in x+y=z and all you have given us is z is >1 but less than 100..

[roger2]

@+BudMan you are making too many assumptions and/or not reading my posts closely enough.  You don't understand my approach, and I am not asking you to. And it IS a simple question, you need consider nothing else to help me along my learning curve.

 

1) you say that I wouldn't be here asking for help if my "current WiFi  worked". Wrong. My current WiFi works just fine on TV #1 (from diagram). The WAP, the two additional TV/Roku pairs, and the cameras have not been added to the system. You would  know that  if you had read more carefully.

 

2) in the "yes Sir, it really IS a simple question" category....

 

Based on CrashGordon's concise, direct answer, which I trust, I know  that 802.11n will handle two Netflix streams. From there I conclude that 802.11ac will give me some cushion for streaming to two televisions alone. Simple. The TV/Roku pairs will be connected first before I even start looking at cameras. So IF 802.11ac connected to my router via Cat6a, does not handle two Netflix streams, THEN i will know that the bottleneck is either my router or my ISP, and will investigate there if necessary. When I add the cameras, should problems ensue, THEN I will be asking (somewhere) where the bottleneck is.

 

I also conclude from CrashGordon's simple and direct answer, which I trust, that MU-MIMO is not necessary so I can ignore products with that capability. I also feel confident,  based on our interaction, that CrashGordon has noticed that I specifically inquired about MU- MIMO and had it been a requirement he would have said something.

 

 

 

So essentially it is very simple. I was not asking for a complete system analysis. I was asking about very specific capabilities of one system component. I am taking this one step at a time. The WAP is far, far more labor intensive in my situation and I want to get this decision right. If, later on, it becomes apparent that my ISP or modem/router is a problem, those are  easy to deal with.

 

@+BudMan I am NOT mad at you. I am frustrated at having gone through a  long and circuitous process via multiple forums and calls to manufacturers, Netflix, etc., in search of (yes) a simple answer to a simple question. But I put it down to human nature in general, and not you specifically: (1) people don't generally read posts carefully before responding (2) people generally assume that anyone  lacking knowledge that they possess must be idiots i.e., it is easy to confuse lack of knowledge with lack of intelligence. (3) people RARELY answer the question that is asked, as asked, and instead immediately begin questioning underlying assumptions of the poster. Even if that approach is warranted much of the time, which I will concede, a wise responder  should at least try to keep things on a direct path out of respect to whoever is asking the question.

 

@Crashgordon THANK YOU!!!!

 

@moderators thank you for not booting me out of here in the middle of my first thread

[Mindovermaster Moderator]

BudMan knows too much... and has seen too much. He's not fighting with you, he is trying to help you. Yeah, through all his garble...

[CrashG]

1 hour ago, roger2 said:

MU-MIMO is not necessary so I can ignore products with that capability

Wait. I never said or implied that.  Sorry for any confusion on that.

 

I get that it's kinda information overload, but Budman has probably forgotten more than I'll ever know about networking and he didn't get that MVC badge for nothing.

[+Biscuits Brown MVC]

Geezie... how did I manage to stream Netflix on two systems over WiFi on my old 802.11g router. Never even thought about protocols. All I cared was how much bandwidth I had.  Now, saying that, I didnt have 2 HD cameras etc. eating into my WiFi...

 

Oh, you'd be wise to listen to Budman, he really knows this stuff.

[+BudMan MVC]

12 hours ago, roger2 said:

he WAP, the two additional TV/Roku pairs, and the cameras have not been added to the system. You would  know that  if you had read more carefully.

I did read you post...  And without the additional info its impossible to just give you a simple answer..

 

What you purchase for this new ap - buying a N only AP would be money down the drain.. Even if could handle what you want to connect to it.  You shouldn't be looking at anything other than a AC accesspoint - PERIOD!!!  Any AC accesspoint you would also be able to just do N both at 2.4 and 5ghz..

 

Your only real question would be how much do you want to spend on this new AC accesspoint and what other sorts of features do you want.  Vlan support would be a requirement if you ask me, even you do not plan on leveraging it currently.

 

So comes down do you have the budget to get a wave 2 AC or just AC..

 

If I was going to suggest a model, I would say go with the unifi AC pro.. It retails for like $130.. But they also have a LR and Lite model at lower costs.  Shoot depending on location of your other wifi devices and area you need to cover you could also shutdown the wifi on that crap route you currently using.. N300 - like watching the grass grow after you painted it

 

 

[roger2]

People please understand that I am only making decisions on ONE piece of equipment. If I install that one piece, a WAP, and the system is not up to the task then I will address that when the time comes. I am not going to even consider replacing my combo unit until I see for myself that it is not doing the job.

 

FOR NOW there will be no cameras added to the system. Only two TVs that are both not "smart" and will be using Roku Express 3900 boxes as mentioned above. These are HD only.

 

IN THE FUTURE I will add cameras and then I will consider replacing the combo unit as well. BUT,  the WAP I get now, should be able to handle  two Netflix TV's PLUS two cameras.

 

 

Questions about Ubiquiti UniFi UAP-AC-PRO 

 

1) in the spec sheet it says 2.4Ghz MIMO 3x3, and 5Ghx MIMO 3x3.

 

What does the "3x3" refer to? Is that referring to streams?

 

 

2) for the low-end Roku Express boxes I will be using (model 3900), does each use a single stream?  Are they 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz? Would any surveillance cameras require at least a single stream each I mean, if the WAP under discussion only has 3 streams, might it not be capable of handling 4 devices?

 

3) earlier Budman said something about an AC rated WAP possibly  "not working with" my other equipment. Does that mean that an 802.11ac WAP would not be able to work to its full potential with my current combo unit? OR, does it mean that it might not work at all?

 

4) RE: the PoE injector unit that comes with the UniFi UAP-AC-PRO. Would I just use a short ethernet cable from my current router to send signal to the power injector, then run the longer ethernet cable out to the WAP? And that takes care of the power requirements for the WAP so that only one cable would be connected to the WAP?

 

5) RE: the controller for the Ubiquiti UniFi UAP-AC-PRO. Is that just software that I would download to my PC?

 

6) RE the Roku Express 3900 box: It specs list it being compatible with b,g,n. It does not mention ac. Will it work with and ac rated WAP? I mean isn't an ac rated WAP also compatible with earlier protocols and devices?

https://image.roku.com/ww/docs/compare-chart-products-en-us.pdf

 

 

thank you

 

 

 

[+Biscuits Brown MVC]

You keep mixing bandwidth, throughput and 'streams'. You can 'stream' to as many clients as can connect to your AP as long as you have the bandwidth and throughput to support them.  

 

3x3 refers to the number of transmit/receive antenna. For a 802.11ac AP, a 3×3 AP provides a (theoretical)  throughput of about 1.3 Gbps (3 x 433 Mbps) versus 867 Mbps (2 x 433 Mbps) for a 2 x 2. on the 2.4GHz band. 

 

Netflix streaming bandwidth for HD is 5Mbps. Assuming you have the a bandwidth from your ISP,  and a router that doesn't choke on the 4 connections,  you'll have no worries.  

 

That AP has a hard coded 127 client limit per radio so that's 127 on 2.4 GHz and 127 on 5 GHz. I really think you may be putting too much thought into this. 

 

So... back to your original question

 

My goal is to stream Netflix to two TV's (different channels simultaneously, of course) and wirelessly connect two surveillance cameras.

 

You can do that with the Ubiquiti UniFi UAP-AC-PRO and a decent router. You could also do that with nothing more than a decent consumer WiFi router. I do not know how good your SURFBoard  is. I can't find any performance reviews so who knows. 

 

I have a 2800 sq ft house with nothing more than a Netgear 6300v2 wifi router. I have 200 Mbps service from my ISP. That little consumer router is plugged into a 16 channel Trendnet Gigabit unmanaged switch with 9 hardwired devices. I also have 2 DLink DCS-2630L 180-Degree WiFi Cameras, two Fire Sticks, 1 NUC, two phones, 2 laptops and 3 tablets that are almost always connected. The cameras are always on and there are many times during the day where we have 2 Netflix streams, a Pandora steam and maybe a YouTube or Amazon Prime Video stream running concurrently on WiFi (oddly enough, the wired devices steam way less than the wireless ones...). 

 

My biggest concern isn't really your hardware, its the 50 Mbps connection. Who is your provider and how stable is that bandwidth? I'd be more concerned that you will run out of bandwidth from your ISP and that causing problems before other WiFi/networking capacity issues. Also, I'm not sure you need to pony up for CAT6a cable. Your speeds do not really demand that cable and you could get by (easily) with a decent quality (and less expensive) CAT5a cable. 

 

If you need to really move the access point 100' just get the Ubiquiti and be done. For your needs, the software will only be needed for the initial setup and the device will handle your needs. Make sure you mount it correctly and your all set. You only limiting factor will be your ISP and their bandwidth. 

 

 

   

 

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

let me preface my comment by saying i've only browsed this thread so im not speaking to anything specific.

 

I've had a simple Netgear R7000 router for 3-4yrs now, and it's been rock solid. in my house we routinely stream netflix to two TVs and use the internet at the same time on various devices. There's never a hiccup. The router seamlessly supports 'n' and 'ac'. there's never been any conflicts with my neighbors. it's really just a dead simple router to use.

 

As for 50Mbps internet connections. that'll be enough for 2 UHD streams. Im sure that a decent router running either 'ac' or 'n' will be able to accommodate the 2 cameras as well.