Lack of support with nforce3 chipsets

[ForestChav]

It doesn't take long to scour the net to discover people having problems with these chipsets in Vista, when the boards have been marketed for the OS itself and work fine in XP.

The problem stems from nvidia's refusal so far to release a driver for Vista so the only choice is to use the one included in Vista. These problems are usually workable except in the case of graphics cards.

Even with nvidia cards problems occur - random restarts on working hardware in XP, AGP cards running at 4x not 8x impacting on frame rates and general performance, and other general issues centring on bugs in the drivers.

With ATI you will be lucky to get the cards to work at all - more than likely you will be confronted with normal VGA graphics, and a Code 43 in Device Manager. At the moment, there is no fix for this other than to buy a Nvidia card, stay with XP, or to upgrade to PCI Express, a shambolic situation considering these systems are otherwise perfectly Vista capable.

Via and SIS had similar problems when Vista was released but quickly released fixes. Nvidia as yet are refusing to.

Surely it doesn't take that much effort to release a stable AGP driver for these systems? They managed it in XP; indeed, the XP Gart driver is perfectly stable as far as Vista is concerned. But using the XP driver is not a solution - in Vista, video playback is virtually impossible - assuming attempting to do so doesn't restart the nvidia display driver, then the playback is just a green screen with sound. Considering media playback is a crucial part of use of the modern PC, surely labelling these chipsets as "Designed for Windows Vista" is fraudulent, if they are so clearly not. And all it would take is a proper driver to be released.

So basically this is a place for nforce3 users who are bemoaning the lack of support from a major player.

Whether you have a code 43 or a card which works but not at its full capacity, or equipment which was fraudulently sold as Vista ready when clearly it is not... share experiences.

Also, this thread is to encourage petitioning of nvidia to release a working driver for the chipset, which so far they are refusing to do.

If only we could do class action lawsuits in the UK.

also, if anyone has any links to an unofficial GART nf3 driver... it would make me happy :D

[ForestChav]

Nvidia are now claiming that the chipset isn't Vista compatible.

Funny how Asrock and MS are saying it is.

They are muppets of the highest order. All they need to do is release a driver.

[Xerxes]

Yeah I know all about this (tried to install Vista on a nForce 3 based system) and what makes it so annoying was back when Vista was still a BETA, Nvidia marketed the nForce 3 as "Vista Capable" (or whatever it was) and even provided a some Alpha drivers (not for everything though).

Now if you ask them about it, they just tell you it isn't "Vista Capable" and that they will not be providing drivers (not now, not in the future) for it as it is discontinued product and as a result they don't support it. They support the nForce 4 and up though, couldn't of been that much trouble to include the nForce 3 in that surely (considering they already implied it was) but that is Nvidia for you :/

[ForestChav]

Yeah I know all about this (tried to install Vista on a nForce 3 based system) and what makes it so annoying was back when Vista was still a BETA, Nvidia marketed the nForce 3 as "Vista Capable" (or whatever it was) and even provided a some Alpha drivers (not for everything though).

Now if you ask them about it, they just tell you it isn't "Vista Capable" and that they will not be providing drivers (not now, not in the future) for it as it is discontinued product and as a result they don't support it. They support the nForce 4 and up though, couldn't of been that much trouble to include the nForce 3 in that surely (considering they already implied it was) but that is Nvidia for you :/

Yes, I know that - a conversation with their "support" reached the same brick wall which I find ludicrous. Well certainly I am not buying another nvidia product again...

Funny that both the nf3 chipset and the Asrock AM2NF3-VSTA board are listed as Designed for Vista on the Microsoft HCL, so someone isn't telling MS or Asrock. These boards are still being made and sold so it's not a discontinued product.

Thing is, I bought this board especially for Vista because I didn't want to upgrade graphics as well. Luckily it works well enough (3 days' uptime, which is good without it having crashed - and I restarted after 3 days' again because I hacked the XFi drivers in) but sometimes it can crash 4-5 times per day which is quite annoying.

Well it really looks as though I might have to get a new board sooner rather than later which is what Nvidia clearly want us to do - except there is no way it will be an nforce, I'm going back to VIA chipsets and I might test what ATI graphics is like too :evil:

I might even RMA the Asrock board for a full refund claiming it's not fit for purpose (with the conversation with Nvidia claiming it's not Vista compliant in deference with the box logo) so that I don't have to foot the cost and Asrock do, or maybe put pressure on Asrock sharing the information Nvidia stated about it not being compatible - it's even in the name. In the UK, we're legally entitled to do this as goods must be fit for the purpose for which they are sold. (I bought the board with a copy of Vista)

Hmm, the nf4 has AGP as well doesn't it?

[BigBunny]

I have a Biostar NF325-A7 - nForce3 250, and it works just fine with Vista. The in-box drivers worked fine, and I haven't had any problems with AGP (except for the Forceware drivers being horrible-going-on-mediocre). Of course, I don't use RAID or even the onboard sound, so my need for advanced features is rather limited.

[ForestChav]

Incidentally, this is the crux of the convo i had with nvidia.

Having problems with Vista on this board (Asrock Am2-Nf3-VSTA - certified as Vista compatible) with a X2 4200+ and MSI 7600GS graphics card - occasionally the system spontaneously reboots, when idle or in use. Apart from noting an improper shutdown nothing appears in the event logs when this happens and a BSOD does not appear, the mouse pointer and other activity freezes for about 5 seconds then the PC restarts. This happens no matter what version of the display driver is installed and did not occur with the same hardware on XP, but has happened since day 1 on Vista.

After researching on various sites I stumbled across information on the Nvidia forums which I had suspected to be the case attributing this, like the Code 43 error with AMD / ATI graphics cards, to the Microsoft supplied AGP / GART driver included with Vista. On attempting to update this driver Vista said it already had the best driver installed and no drivers for the nf3 are available on the Nvidia website other than the beta sound and networking ones.

Also in that thread I found that if you install the XP driver you get a stable system - I downloaded the latest XP nf3 build, extracted the GART driver and manually installed this through Device Manager giving me a stable system - the machine did not crash once whilst the XP driver was installed.

However, when the XP driver was installed I was unable to play DVDs or other video files through Windows Media Center or any other Media Player - I would get the sound through fine, but either a green screen or the graphics driver would constantly restart itself.

Is there a solution for this issue to either provide a stable nf3 GART driver for Vista, or allow use of the XP driver as well as accessing full media playback through MCE?

This board is marketed on the packaging and also through Asrock as being Vista compatible - if that is not the case, then that is actually illegal under UK law, under an act called the Trades Descriptions Act and it is also contravening the Sale of Goods Act (as the goods are not fit for purpose).

Your help would be appreciated. This is my first nvidia board, after using VIA chipsets for many years and if this is a common experience I would say it would be my last too.

---

They replied with this

I apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused, however In order to troubleshoot the issue you are facing, I would need additional information. Could you please let me know the following details:

1. Have you tried any other graphics card on this motherboard.

2. The driver version installed on your computer currently for this GeForce 7600 GS graphics card.

3. When did you start experiencing this problem with your NVIDIA based card? Was it working before?

4. Did you add or remove any software or hardware immediately prior to this problem?

5. Have you downloaded all the latest patches for the games you are trying to play?

6. What is the amount of Power Supply in your Computer?

---

So i sent this

Most of the answers to these are actually in my original message:

1. Have you tried any other graphics card on this motherboard.

No, I only have the 7600, at least out of ones which are Vista compatible anyway.

2. The driver version installed on your computer currently for this GeForce 7600 GS graphics card.

Currently using 97.46 though the issue also occurs on 100.61, 158.18, 158.24, 162.22, and any other driver version I've tried (these are international as I'm in UK).

3. When did you start experiencing this problem with your NVIDIA based card? Was it working before?

The card and chipset worked and are perfectly stable in Windows XP. Problems have only occurred since installing Vista.

And the problem with the restarts, as I stated, disappeared when I installed the nforce XP GART driver, though that introduced its own issue.

4. Did you add or remove any software or hardware immediately prior to this problem?

No, as I said, it occurred on a clean Vista install on a blank partition.

5. Have you downloaded all the latest patches for the games you are trying to play?

This is not gaming, and anyway, I'm not a gamer. This happens in the shell, when the PC is left idle, or when I'm just using the PC within Windows. There's no pattern to what I'm doing when it crashes.

6. What is the amount of Power Supply in your Computer?

It's a 500W FSP but the amps are fine. And it works in XP with no problems.

---

I've already worked out that the AGP driver is the cause of the problem. If you'd seen the original message properly you would've realised that.

The XP CHIPSET driver is perfectly stable under normal usage. It only has issues when trying to watch DVDs and TV in media applications. That is because that driver is not Vista compatible.

The bundled Vista driver allows full media capability but is unstable causing the system to occasionally randomly restart.

This is independent of the Nvidia Display Driver installed.

---

They sent this

Unfortunately there is no solution to the nForce 3 gart driver issue under Vista. NVIDIA does not claim nForce2 or 3 chipset to be Vista ready. We will not be able to workaround nor resolve the issue via this forum.

Title: Windows Vista: Code 43 Error in Device Manager in Systems with ATI AGP Cards and Nforce3

URL: https://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia....ated=1171400238

---

So i got a bit ****ed off and sent this...

A typical response.

Is this why MS and Asrock both certify the board as Vista ready? Is that why the board is still sold as capable for use with Vista?

In fact, if you look closely on the HCL you can find the AM2NF3-VSTA listed

http://winqual.microsoft.com/HCL/ProductDe...TA&oid=2526

This board uses the nforce3 chipset so have nvidia told Microsoft it's not compatible? In fact, search the HCL and there are countless nforce3 boards listed as compatible.

This is false advertising if nvidia are allowing MS and vendors to say that the chipset is compatible when on the other hand yourselves are refusing to support it. I don't know where you're based, but in the UK we have a law called the Sale of Goods Act, which means that goods must be fit for the purpose for which they are sold. If they are not, then legal action to get compensation is a valid recourse. As a UK limited company Nvidia are liable for this false advertising - even acting as an accessory to allow the advertising. I shall be visiting the local Trading Standards department to report this if this is all the solutions your company can offer.

There are still some unanswered questions of a technical nature.

Why does the driver work fine in XP?

Why is the XP driver stable in Vista?

Why does a stable driver inhibit media playback?

Why is it so difficult to produce a driver to make these cards work properly? Via and Sis had the same problem and fixed it promptly.

In fact, I am considering never purchasing a Nvidia product again. I can be sure to return to Via chipsets if this is the standard of service Nvidia give. As for graphics, I have used Nvidia cards for approximately ten years and will be buying a Radeon next time.

Listen to your customers, they are all over the internet, even on your own forums, just needing a bit of code so their expensive hardware works with the new Windows. We shouldn't have to downgrade or upgrade our systems to do that. Not all of us want to go back to a single core system. Not all of us can afford to change mainboard every six months especially if this involves a new graphics adaptor as well. Or is that the idea? Don't produce something workable so you are forced to buy a newer nforce board?

I expect this will fall on deaf ears.

---

They sent this back

I'm sorry about your experience and have read your concerns but there is nothing we can do via this forum to workaround or resolve this issue but provide you information as previously stated.

-nForce 3 chip and assoociated software was designed for XP.

-XP driver isnt stable in Vista per NVIDIA MCP Software Engineering nor designed to work in such environemnt.

- See above.

-Due to hardware limitations its not possible.

Moreover, this problem also happens with NVIDIA AGP GPUs so this isnt exclusive to ATI products. There is a similar problem with nForce1 and 2 in VIsta. It also cannot be fixed by software.

---

so I replied with this

Fair enough. (Incidentally, since installing the XP GART then using Windows to update to the MS one it seems to have been more stable).

Just curious why XP is so different to Vista that means a working chipset on the HCL doesn't work properly. At least I don't have an ATI card!

----

Just sounds like they can't be bothered to support it. How much effort is an AGP driver?

I have a Biostar NF325-A7 - nForce3 250, and it works just fine with Vista. The in-box drivers worked fine, and I haven't had any problems with AGP (except for the Forceware drivers being horrible-going-on-mediocre). Of course, I don't use RAID or even the onboard sound, so my need for advanced features is rather limited.

Are you running at AGP 4x or 8x?

[Xerxes]

Hmm, the nf4 has AGP as well doesn't it?

From what I understand, nForce 4 only has PCI-e :( I got Vista working ok on the default nForce 3 drivers, but it would randomly lock up and then corrupt the windows partition :blink: I thought at first it was a freak occurance, but it happens each time I put Vista on that machine (at a random time) :/ there are plenty of people with nForce 3 based machines screaming for Vista drivers but Nvidia just won't listen and I never found a solid solution for my problem (got a new machine instead :p) so I cannot really help much :(

[Hurricane Andrew]

I've been running Vista Business on two PC's, both with AGP graphics. One board is a Chaintech VNF3-250, and the other is an ECS-nForce3A. The Chaintech system is my primary work PC, and has been running 24/7 without a hiccup (Folding it's heart out the entire time) since I started dual booting Vista back at the end of February. A couple of months ago, I ditched XP totally on that box, though the ECS still dual boots for the kids. Clearly, this isn't a chipset issue, but an issue with specific hardware.

[Diaboli]

its an issue with Nforce 3 + Dual core Systems

http://forums.microsoft.com/TechNet/ShowPo...0&SiteID=17

Its basically nividia simply refusing to support it

[ForestChav]

its an issue with Nforce 3 + Dual core Systems

http://forums.microsoft.com/TechNet/ShowPo...0&SiteID=17

Its basically nividia simply refusing to support it

Yes, pretty much.

It will work, they just can't be arsed to produce a driver that works.

[reaper1576]

Ok you got the same mobo as me i fixed all the rash problems with these drivers they worked for me treat them as beta and use at your own risk. they work better than the xp drivers what some are using

Nforce_AGP_4.40_BETA_x32.zip

Nforce_AGP_4.34_WHQL_x64.ZIP

[ForestChav]

They do work, but you can't get Media Center TV playback - just a green screen with sound. And the driver restarts when you play a DVD.

I read something on the MS forums about turning off AGP fast writes...

[reaper1576]

They do work, but you can't get Media Center TV playback - just a green screen with sound. And the driver restarts when you play a DVD.

I read something on the MS forums about turning off AGP fast writes...

Ok well i dont know about TV playback dont have a TV card but ive managed to watch dvds when i do rarely watch them on my PC mostly watch divx films on here. but this mobo was a sidegrade to move to AM2 socket with out replacing my vid card at the time but im planing on replacing the mobo and vid card soon.

planing on upgrading to this:

Asus M2N32-SLi-DLX nForce 590 SLi

BFG GeForce 8800 GTS OC2 640MB GDDR3 HDTV/Dual DVI (PCI-Express)

[ForestChav]

Ok well i dont know about TV playback dont have a TV card but ive managed to watch dvds when i do rarely watch them on my PC mostly watch divx films on here. but this mobo was a sidegrade to move to AM2 socket with out replacing my vid card at the time but im planing on replacing the mobo and vid card soon.

planing on upgrading to this:

Asus M2N32-SLi-DLX nForce 590 SLi

BFG GeForce 8800 GTS OC2 640MB GDDR3 HDTV/Dual DVI (PCI-Express)

I did that. Maybe have to try the beta drivers again, which forceware are you using?

I'm looking at the M2V with whatever silent ATI card comparable to the 7600 i can find.

[reaper1576]

163.44 atm

[ForestChav]

Strange, I was using those and it didn't work.

[ForestChav]

Just updated to the beta (VGA) drivers and installed a MS hotfix, system not been up long enough to monitor. Still suspect it needs the GART driver rewriting which doesn't look like it is going to happen :(

http://web.archive.org/web/20070105114349/...m/page/nf3.html

I do find that slightly ironic though.

As well as me doing the nvidia site Vista compatibility check and it exposing no problems. This is after all the same company who say it isn't possible.

[ForestChav]

Tried 163.44 with the Vista AGP driver and that causes MCE to crash out on the 2nd episode of fullscreens about 5-10 minutes in.

So I tried 163.44 with the XP AGP driver and that's the same as anything with the XP driver.

Back on 97.46 now :o It seems to work best.