Restore CD's and Vista Product Keys

[RGSPro]

You all know the recovery CD's that come with new computers? They don't contain the windows product key do they, since when you do a recovery it won't prompt for a windows key? Where is the product key stored then if not on the CD? Will it prompt for a key if all partitions have been erased, such as the hidden "toshiba" partition or something like that?

Just a quick question :) Thanks for the info

[[DGS]]

usually the key is below the notebook.. on its belly on a sticker :D

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

Hello RGSPro,

Yes, new computers usually come with a recovery CD containing the operating system. The product key itself isn't really "stored" on the CD. It's actually a sticker on the case of a PC or under a laptop. Also, running a repair installation requires a valid Windows product key. The Windows setup will prompt for a product key even if the partition has been formatted.

The product key sticker usually looks like this:

[RGSPro]

yes yes, i know its on the bottom of the notebook. What im interested in is why the restore CD will never ask for it... it seems to be done automatically.

[ForestChav]

SLP normally.

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

Hi RGSPro,

I understand what you're saying now. Usually, the recovery CD contains an image of the HD when it shipped (factory settings). The advantage to that is you can easily restore the default factory settings without any hassle. You won't have to manually install drivers and applications one by one which makes things simple for the end user. The drawbacks include the inability to select which applications you want to be installed, and the lack of driver flexibility. Changing components can often cause the recovery CD drivers to fail.

Anyway, I doubt your recovery CD uses SLP (System Locked Preinstallation). It's merely a preactivating procedure used by manufacturers before the operating system is distributed, meaning that the activation process is done as soon as you boot up the machine. Keep in mind SLP discs still require a unique product key, but recovery discs don't.

[techs]

I believe that the product key is actually in the cmos chip. When the os installs it checks the cmos and picks up the key from there. You cannot use another companies oem install disk since the software on the disk only picks up the key for that particular brand.

This is why I use the latest Dell Windows XP disk from Dell when I re-install XP on an older Dell that came with XP. Instead of the customers original XP which may not have any Service Paks, I can now get SP 2 already installed. This only works by matching a Dell Home with a machine that came with Home and a Professional disk on a computer that came with Pro. Same with MCE.

This is the way it worked on XP, and I assume it is the same on Vista.

[Tomo]

I believe that the product key is actually in the cmos chip. When the os installs it checks the cmos and picks up the key from there. You cannot use another companies oem install disk since the software on the disk only picks up the key for that particular brand.

This is why I use the latest Dell Windows XP disk from Dell when I re-install XP on an older Dell that came with XP. Instead of the customers original XP which may not have any Service Paks, I can now get SP 2 already installed. This only works by matching a Dell Home with a machine that came with Home and a Professional disk on a computer that came with Pro. Same with MCE.

This is the way it worked on XP, and I assume it is the same on Vista.

Thats rubbish, XP and Vista OEM look for a certain string in the BIOS that matches the required string on the installation CD.

[Codesmith]

On an XP CD they "real product key" is stored in the winnt.sif file in the i386 directory.

What it is, is a unattended install file configured to automatically enter the product key.

Further editing of the winnt.sif file will allow you to automatically answer all the install questions so you just pop in the disc and wait for it to finish.

On a "royalty" OEM machine the COA sticker has a dummy key which is deactivated.

The key is a volume key that only works if the OEMBIOS files on the CD find a qualifying motherboard.

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Something similar exists for Vista.

I know its not the same system as XP.

I know there there are volume keys and systems are activated if the motherboard qualifies.

I have hear that unlilke the old system spoofing the existence of a qualifying motherboard is easy and is how most people pirate vista.

When I start having to reinstall OEM Vista boxes I will probably have to learn how the new system locked preactivation system works.

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I have seen restore CDs that were nothing more or less than XP install CDs modified to install additional software and drivers, like you would create for your self. Others are backup images similar to what you would create using True Image and one click restore.

If there is an i386 folder then its definitely a custom install CD.

Again XP knowledge that might not carry over to Vista!

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

I believe that the product key is actually in the cmos chip. When the os installs it checks the cmos and picks up the key from there. You cannot use another companies oem install disk since the software on the disk only picks up the key for that particular brand.

This is why I use the latest Dell Windows XP disk from Dell when I re-install XP on an older Dell that came with XP. Instead of the customers original XP which may not have any Service Paks, I can now get SP 2 already installed. This only works by matching a Dell Home with a machine that came with Home and a Professional disk on a computer that came with Pro. Same with MCE.

This is the way it worked on XP, and I assume it is the same on Vista.

Actually, SLP enabled discs check for a text string in the BIOS. If it finds a match then the user is not prompted to activate Windows XP. I'd say you're using a standard Dell OEM disc.

[Codesmith]

BTW CD Key is 100% not on the CMOS or stored anywhere in the BIOS on both XP and VISTA.

And if it a royalty OEM the CD key on the sticker is 100% factory disabled. You can call to have it activated if needed.

It is always on the Disc in some form or another (install CD w answer file or backup image of installed OS).

[cell tech]

My old compaq laptop- model 2105us, came with a 4 disc recovery set as well as an XP home install disc. Depending on what I wanted, I could use the recovery disc set or I could use the XP install disc.

In the first case, the version of XP installed was an OEM version, and the recovery wiped all partitions off the drive and reinstalled everything from a compressed image spanning those 4 discs and was pre-activated- no need to contact Microsoft to start using it or installing updates. In the second case, which was the equivalent of a retail XP home disc- right down to the file sizes and date and time stamps (on the few dozen files I checked), I had all the normal XP installation options and had to input the key from the COA and go online or phone Microsoft to activate it- it was not an invalidated / inactive / disabled key- it activated over the Internet the first time I used it.

My experience is that computer companies have various ways to provide recovery options. Some provide install discs for everything- OS and software, some provide recovery discs like I mentioned above, and some have hidden partitions that use a special CD to copy the recovery partion over to the main partition. Sometimes, different computers from the same manufacturer use different methods as well.

Often, the recovery software looks for specific strings in the BIOS like system make or model or the like, chipset type, etc., and if that information is not found, or doesn't match what the software expects, aborts the recovery. That is why you most likely cannot use a Dell recovery disc set on an HP or other computers, and sometimes can't use a Dell set on a different Dell.

Technically, the install key is not stored anywhere on the hard drive or in the system on any XP or Vista computer, unless you've typed it in and saved a text file or something. The registry contains what is an encrypted version of it so it cannot be easily copied and used on another computer. If I remember correctly, this is why major hardware changes require re-activation since hardware devices are used to generate the encrypted key and changing certain devices or changing devices too often cause the key to be recalculated and require re-validation.

[techs]

Thats rubbish, XP and Vista OEM look for a certain string in the BIOS that matches the required string on the installation CD.

Uh, isn't that what I said? And since you can use ANY Dell disk on any Dell computer how does the product key MATCH the key on the machines sticker if you use a disk from a different Dell machine?

Ipso facto, it must be on the bios chip.

At least thats what the NE Regional Director of Microsoft told me a couple of years back at a MS event.

[cell tech]

Uh, isn't that what I said? And since you can use ANY Dell disk on any Dell computer how does the product key MATCH the key on the machines sticker if you use a disk from a different Dell machine?

Ipso facto, it must be on the bios chip.

At least thats what the NE Regional Director of Microsoft told me a couple of years back at a MS event.

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. If the key on the COA is in the BIOS, then every BIOS must have the same key for the same version of Windows. But I have seen multiple Dell computers, each with different keys on the COA sticker- some Win2k, some XP home, some XP Pro, some Vista, that would NOT let a Dell recovery installation run from a different computer.

By logical conclusion, that fact itself- 'ipso facto' if you will, means the key is NOT in the BIOS.

Maybe there is a sting in the BIOS, some hardware identifier that the recovery looks for that allows it to run?

[techs]

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. If the key on the COA is in the BIOS, then every BIOS must have the same key for the same version of Windows. But I have seen multiple Dell computers, each with different keys on the COA sticker- some Win2k, some XP home, some XP Pro, some Vista, that would NOT let a Dell recovery installation run from a different computer.

By logical conclusion, that fact itself- 'ipso facto' if you will, means the key is NOT in the BIOS.

Maybe there is a sting in the BIOS, some hardware identifier that the recovery looks for that allows it to run?

I don't understand your reasoning. Every network card has a different mac address number. It is quite easy to merely install a unique product key into the bios.

What everyone here is missing is that different Dell disks, at least on XP, when installed on a different machine than they came with, still show the product key that is on the case once you have installed XP and used a utility like Keyfinder to see the product key. Therefore the product key MUST be in the hardware of the machine. And the bios, being made of eeeprom is the perfect place.

[Codesmith]

I routinely turn generic OEM CDs into Royalty OEM CDs, at least several times a month, its faster than requesting a CD from the manufacturer.

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In the factory all the computers with XP Home get the same SLP key.

Then they slap a COA sticker on with a unique key.

On a Royalty OEM CD the SLP volume key is stored in the in the winnt.sif file in the i386 folder.

winnt.sif is a text file that when present in the i386 folder or on a floppy, will automate parts or all of the install process including entering a the product key.

The System Locked Preactivation part happens when XP first runs.

The Royalty OEM CD has special files (named OEMBIOS.*). XP will automatically use these files to see if you have installed on a recognized motherboard.

If you have then windows XP will automatically activate without having to contact MS.

There is no special code stored in the BIOS. Instead XP judges the BIOS based on the OEMBIOS files. Usually it looks for a specific string "DELL" for instance at a specific location.

If you hacked your BIOS to make it say "DELL" at that location then you can pirate XP by simply using a DELL install CD, and it will 100% fool Microsoft.

Of course simply overwriting a specific of your BIOS with the string "DELL" would make your computer an expensive paper weight.

A very accomplished assembly language programmer with way too much time on your hands could rewrite the BIOS to move the code around and make room for the insertion.

Its been done, but for the same skill and effort you could probably earn enough money to buy a dozen legal copies of XP.

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The SLP keys for each version of XP (Home, Pro, MCE) are universal. You can use a Dell Key on a HP for instance.

The OEMBIOS are often universal within a brand. So an OEMBIOS file for a new Dell usually works on all previous dells.

The key on the sticker is disabled by default. Otherwise people could just copy them in the stores.

However if you install from a CD that isn't setup to use SLP, or you change motherboard so that SLP will no longer work you can call and ask Microsoft to enable that key.

If you installed using an SLP key, but the OEMBIOS didn't match the motherboard you have to change keys.

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I have unmodified copies of Home, Pro and MCE 2005 on my hard drive.

I use a batch file to retrieve the OEMBIOS file from hard drive of the royalty OEM computer.

I then add these to the i386 folder.

I open winnt.sif and uncomment the slp product key for the proper version of windows and copy it to the i386 folder.

I burn the CD with nero, making sure to get the boot image settings right.

I now have a royalty OEM install CD and when I don't have to answer any questions during the install process and when XP automatically activates the first time it boots.

The product key on the COA sticker never gets used.

If I just replaced the motherboard with one not from the original manufacture I would have to change to the COA sticker on the product key to call Microsoft.

This isn't something I am guessing about. This is something I work with every time I do a clean install on a Royalty OEM system.

(Royalty means MS lets them make their own customized install CDs and pay a royalty fee)

Sorry if the post is long and rambling.

Edited September 16, 2007 by Codesmith