intel = pwned

[PureEdit]

Can most home users afford a $3000+ computer???

I just got somebody to switch, and they asked me what computer they should get for about $2000, I told them to get the 15'' iMac, and they did, it was $1299, much cheaper then they expected to pay, and they love it. OS X is the best thing they have seen in years :p

Most people don't need a g5, even a slower mac is better then a faster PC :p

[aristotle-dude]

for those of you saying that macs will be at dual 3.0ghz my 2004 i really highly doubt that. It takes forever for apple to update their chips and when they do update them its not that much of a performance diffrence. just like the new powerbooks they went from 1ghz to 1.33 and that took like a year or so. either way even if they do get to 3.0ghz by 2004 think how much it would cost to upgrade you current g5 to that. is it even possible to upgrade proccesors on a mac or do you have to buy a whole new machiine?

IBM is making the G5, not Motorola. In the past Motorola made chips like the G4 and they took forever to update the chips.

IBM announced a 3Ghz chip would be available in the first quarter of 2004 when the G5 was revealed. A vice president no less made the announcement at that event.

[_Pablo]

Yeah the G5 looks the mutts nuts, and OSX is certainly a quantum leap over MacOS 9 and possibly other OSs too, got to be the best unix desktop ever...but there are a few problems with Macs or even Apple in general...

Half-Life2

GP4

Flight Sim 2004

One mouse button as standard

Steve Jobs

Jeff Goldblum

But the worse thing is Mac afficionados tossing off in public about how amazing the Mac is at every chance. No quitely just using the amazing power of OSX on dual G5...here are some made up quotes:

"MACS ARE THE BEST NO DOUBT EVER" [email protected] 2001

"PHOTOSHOP IS TWELVETY TRILLION TIMES FASTER ON A MAC" Mac User 1999

"EVEN WHEN STEVE WAS GONE AND APPLE WERE 5H1T THEY STILL PWNED THE PC" Ma****@ma****.com 2003

"LOOK AT ME AND MY MAC RIGHT NOW!" [email protected] 1993,1994,1995,1996,1997,1998,1999,2000,2001,2002,2003

Just STFU and get on with using your Mac and maybe as time goes on well all look over your shoulder and go, "Wow with a USB mouse, a Radeon 9800 Pro, that massive TFT and Doom III that Mac looks awesome...maybe I'll get one!".

[Fonze]

But the worse thing is Mac afficionados tossing off in public about how amazing the Mac is at every chance. No quitely just using the amazing power of OSX on dual G5...here are some made up quotes:

"MACS ARE THE BEST NO DOUBT EVER" [email protected] 2001

"PHOTOSHOP IS TWELVETY TRILLION TIMES FASTER ON A MAC" Mac User 1999

"EVEN WHEN STEVE WAS GONE AND APPLE WERE 5H1T THEY STILL PWNED THE PC" Ma****@ma****.com 2003

"LOOK AT ME AND MY MAC RIGHT NOW!" [email protected] 1993,1994,1995,1996,1997,1998,1999,2000,2001,2002,2003

Just STFU and get on with using your Mac and maybe as time goes on well all look over your shoulder and go, "Wow with a USB mouse, a Radeon 9800 Pro, that massive TFT and Doom III that Mac looks awesome...maybe I'll get one!".

every chance my room mate gets, he tells me how his mac can do something that my PC can do, except better and without crashing. because we all know windows is to blame for poorly written apps crashing...

[uniacid]

sigh ignorant pc users make me laugh sometimes, I just got a G5, and I paid for it with my own money which I've been working hard to get, Macs are a little on the pricey side but the performance you get is worth it, and macs are upgradable, look at the G4's, there are tons of cpu upgrades for them, and now since IBM is making the G5 Apple will have faster cpu's coming out sooner than before, and if you want to argue about games, almost every game that is popular is out for mac, q1-3, doom 3 will come to mac, and even HL 2 will come to mac. So please don't flame when you don't even know about macs and what they can do.

-ps I've been a pc user for around 7-8 years and now I'm experiencing the mac world

[aristotle-dude]

Yeah the G5 looks the mutts nuts, and OSX is certainly a quantum leap over MacOS 9 and possibly other OSs too, got to be the best unix desktop ever...but there are a few problems with Macs or even Apple in general...

Half-Life2

GP4

Flight Sim 2004

One mouse button as standard

Steve Jobs

Jeff Goldblum

Half-Life 2 might be ported, according to valve. We've already got Doom 3 and Halo ports in the works. What more do you want?

What is GP4?

Who care about Flight sims?

Get a logitec. Many PC's come without a USB mouse and without scroll wheels. Get a logitec optical scroll.

What about Steve Jobs? He saved apple from bankrupcy.

Jeff Goldblum is just a spokesman. He will go to the highest bidder. What is your point?

Edited September 18, 2003 by aristotle-dude

[Steve]

Grand Prix 4, i think?!?

[Redestium]

I am just wondering why a mod would be posting something like this.

Flame suit: On!

No Flaming, Personal attacks such as flaming, instigating "flame bait"

:whistle:

[MajorSham]

AMD probably has the most reasonable follow-up to the G5, but it's a server chip for now and it'll be a while until we see it. So, for now at least, the dual 2.0 rules the photoshop world.

The Athlon 64 comes out in a week or so. The Athlon 64 FX, which is billed as the "Enthusiast" proc, comes out in March, IIRC.

[_Pablo]

Half-Life 2 might be ported, according to valve. We've already got Doom 3 and Halo ports in the works. What more do you want?

What is GF4?

Who care about Flight sims?

Get a logitec. Many PC's come without a USB mouse and without scroll wheels. Get a logitec optical scroll.

What about Steve Jobs? He saved apple from bankrupcy.

Jeff Goldblum is just a spokesman. He will go to the highest bidder. What is your point?

Thanks for the typical blinkered afficiando response. In a Michael Winner stylee "Calm down dear, it's only a PC with a different CPU and a skinned Unix".

"HL2 might be ported" - It might, but the market share is pretty small, more likely to port it to Linux first.

"What more do you want?" - All the games perhaps? All the choice perhaps?

"Who care about Flight sims?" - So if your platform doesn't support something then no-one needs/wants it? That is a weak argument from a weak position.

"Get a [more than one button] mouse" - why the interface isn't built for two or more buttons. But the extra button really comes in use on games..and X.

"What about Steve Jobs? He saved apple from bankrupcy." - ringing endorsment for Apple Corp.

"Jeff Goldblum is just a spokesman. He will go to the highest bidder." - were there other bidders?

[Nerd Rage]

you talk the talk, but can you prove in any way that these benchmarks are not legitimate?

Why are these not fair benches? Let me put a single G5 against a hypothetical motherboard running four P4's and I'm sure the G5 would get owned. Putting dual G5's against a single P4 and saying intel got owned is similar to putting a Radeon 9800 Pro against a Nvidia TNT 2 and saying Nvidia got owned.

[Ironman273]

intel = pwned

You misspelled owned! :p

[kairon]

for those of you saying that macs will be at dual 3.0ghz my 2004 i really highly doubt that. It takes forever for apple to update their chips and when they do update them its not that much of a performance diffrence. just like the new powerbooks they went from 1ghz to 1.33 and that took like a year or so. either way even if they do get to 3.0ghz by 2004 think how much it would cost to upgrade you current g5 to that. is it even possible to upgrade proccesors on a mac or do you have to buy a whole new machiine?

And can you upgrade processors in a Gateway,Dell,etc. No?I thought so. ;)

[Redestium]

And can you upgrade processors in a Gateway,Dell,etc. No?I thought so. ;)

What do you mean? Of course you can upgrade chips in those machines. :huh:

[isus]

Do I really care if a mac is faster than my Windows baby? No. As long as I have the fastest machine in my circle of gaming friends, I'm happy.

And seriously.....

Most peple don't have high power machines anyway! As long as they can listen to their music, get e-mail and browse the web, they're happy. Only ubergeeks and die-hard gamers care about speed. As a windows user, macs don't even cross my mind when it comes to what I enjoy doing with a computer. Who has money to buy a new G5 anyway? Macs are way overpriced....always have been, probably always will be.

As for laptops, I'll take a Centrino ANY day over a powerbook.

haha, aren't you the doofus who is worried about heat in another thread? the guy who doesn't know if 130F is ok for your pc?

enjoy your centrino as intel enjoys explaining how a lower mhz cpu is faster, when they played against amd's and apple's mhz myth a few years back.

[jtg]

"What about Steve Jobs? He saved apple from bankrupcy"

Didn't MicroShaft help do that with a $150 Million loan?

I'll have to stick with Windows. I don't want to buy all that software I've got all over again and I'm not to sure I could manage my work's Active Directory, Exchange, etc.... with a MAC. :x

They sure are pretty though.

And very enjoyable to use.

[spacey]

the g5 does seem pretty fast and cool, but i mean. realistically, i am still going to buy a pc for the simple fact that a nice little athlon barton 2500+ can easily run at 3200+ which performs pretty decently compared with that g5 1.6ghz

the price difference? i'd probably pay about $1000 for my barton and looks like the lowest end g5 is $2900 cdn. its like the difference between buying a lexus or a honda civic... i mean, not many ppl go around buying the top of the line stuff? dual g5's start at $4200! thats four thousand two hundred dollars... on a computer. great.

i think apple needs to recheck their prices... as does intel a bit. granted this a geek forum, and everyone is going to say they need this kinda computing power to do their mutlimedia editing... but i work fine on my barton 3200+.

[Elliott]

Spacey, you must live in Canada or something. The Dual 2.0GHz G5 is $2999. :p

[the evn show]

EDIT: over quoted by mistake.

Didn't MicroShaft help do that with a $150 Million loan?

You mean the $150m in stock apple sold microsoft - a deal which got Internet Explorer bundled as the default browser when Microsoft was going hell bent to destroy Netscape Navigator as a competitor? The same stock Microsoft sold years ago for a hansom profit? Or is this some voodoo mystery loan that nobody else has heard of? Even if it is, what does something over half a decade old have to do with things today?

i mean, not many ppl go around buying the top of the line stuff? dual g5's start at $4200! thats four thousand two hundred dollars... on a computer. great.

If your finances or taste don't allow you to buy a G5 desktop system that's fine; mine, like many other people here, are such that I can purchase apple hardware. It's priorities. I consider $4200 for a computer and $42000 for a car to be acceptable - you don't: how do your (or my) values or financial situation apply to the original purpose of this thread which is "G5s are really fast according to these benchmarks"

my tibook cost $4600 11 months ago - $4200 for a Dual processor 64-bit computer is an excellent value: can you find any other PC manufacturer (or even something from sun, sgi, etc) that offers ~4 ghz on a dual cpu 64bit platform for anything noteably better than $4200cdn?

but i work fine on my barton 3200+.

I work fine on my dvi TiBook at 667, 12" ibook at 800mhz and iMac at 1Ghz - mostly because they all run OS X very well. When you get that (mac os) working on your AMD chip (or better still - something from intel) then i'll consider something from one of the high-end PC dealers - until that day you can keep your Windows, I'll keep my OS X and everything will be happy.

[Nexus-]

Opterons are server-based, so design firms and home users aren't generally going to buy them, nor pay the prices to get one.

CORRECTION: Opterons are server/WORKSTATION-based

i thought the g5 was a workstation too? so this puts them in the same catagory so they SHOULD NOT have been left out of this test :angry:

i say forget all this petty my chip is faster than oyur bs whatever i dont care all i care about is that my pc can do more than a mac and a mac cost more cus they monopolize their market and can charge just about whatever they user is oging to pay :rolleyes:

i would never game on a mac and my pc does what it needs to do and for less than a mac and it has a larger software base. Im not saying using a mac is wrong but untill that statement is wrong i cant see using a mac :whistle:

Bottom line: we got to wait for the mac os to be true 64 bit and the windows xp to be true 64 bit for the opteron and then compare how each os runs real programs not benchmarks. like i dont like seeing scores or # i like to see it took such and such time for x machine to render x 3d model. or it took x machine x time to render x image in x application

Do that for 64 bit apps and then again for 32bit apps on the 64 bit os and compare the #'s and ill be happy

forget the itanium since it dont run 32 bit right anyway

*The real argument needs to wait untill we can see 64 bit OS and apps on the g5 and 64 bit os and apps on the top of the line dual opteron WORKSTATION

I have no problem saying the pc is the weaker machine untill i see it get beat in a fair testing enviroment

[the evn show]

i thought the g5 was a workstation too? so this puts them in the same catagory so they SHOULD NOT have been left out of this test :angry:

It's rantin' time.

Apple markets their hardware as a desktop solution. Sure it's fast enough to be used as a DV or sci-tech workstation but that isn't the point. Changing the benchmark because you think they should wouldn't really make it more valid.

i say forget all this petty my chip is faster than oyur bs whatever i dont care all i care about is that my pc can do more than a mac and a

Like what? Any given task that can be accomplished on a PC running Windows can also be accomplished on a Mac OS based system - well except acting as a traget for the virus/worm flavour of the week (low blow - I'm not serious). It might not be the same software package in use but the job accomplished is the same.

mac cost more cus they monopolize their market and can charge just about whatever they user is oging to pay  :rolleyes:

It also sucks that dell can charge whatever they want for a latitude notebook and nobody else is allowed to make dell laptops. I'm kind of annoyed that AMD can sell Athlon processors in volume for whatever they want too. Wait, no I'm not, that's the way free market economies work - maybe you'd be happier in a communist paradise like Cuba?

i would never game on a mac

That's great, other people will.

and my pc does what it needs to do and for less than a mac and it has a larger software base. I

You must have different needs than many mac users.

q: Does it really matter how many crumby applications are out when major high-quality commercial applications are applications are available for both platforms. If you're cheap there are thousands of free applications that are also very high quality available for os x.

At what point did having the biggest pile of crumby software mean you had the best computing platform? Why not talk about programs people actually want?

Bottom line: we got to wait ..blah blah blah

WHY? If we're willing to wait for "true 64 bittedness" why not wait for the faster G5s that are due real soon now, and then we could wait for the next version of windows that will be out any time now, and then the new athlon processors that are 20% better than what we'll have. But then we should wait for the next mac os, and then the new wonder-ram-300 that makes everything faster....

What's just around the corner really doesn't matter when we're talking about current technologies.

I have no problem saying the pc is the weaker machine untill i see it get beat in a fair testing enviroment

Apparently that 'fair environment' is one that you've designed where AMD workstations running an OS that isn't shipping using applications that aren't written are compared against G5s running another non-existant OS running more applications that don't exist.

Just out of curiosity - are you one of those people who will only accept an OS as "true 64 bit" if sizeof(void *) returns 8 or do you want everything compiled to use 64-bit pointers - even something like sticky-notes or have you some other arbitrary list of criteria?

[kairon]

What do you mean? Of course you can upgrade chips in those machines. :huh:

:huh:

Apparently I'm missing something here.

[Tim Dorr Veteran]

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G5/Dual_g5_9600_9800_tests.html

Some more benchmarks to throw into the mix...

BTW, "pwned" is the 1337 way to say owned... ;)

[Redestium]

:huh:

Apparently I'm missing something here.

It's a fairly simple procedure to upgrade a CPU in a Dell or Gateway, etc. It's just a matter of opening the box and swapping the old one with a newly purchased one. :whistle:

[jtg]

You mean the $150m in stock apple sold microsoft - a deal which got Internet Explorer bundled as the default browser when Microsoft was going hell bent to destroy Netscape Navigator as a competitor?  The same stock Microsoft sold years ago for a hansom profit?  Or is this some voodoo mystery loan that nobody else has heard of?  Even if it is, what does something over half a decade old have to do with things today?

Calm down dude I was just asking a question and not putting anyone down.

By the way..... The :x was in the wrong place. It was supposed to go after Active Directory :x