Proxy talk

[+BudMan MVC]

This comes to mind

[kubi789]

I am glad you guys have so much trust in your users ( I am assuming you guys are network admins) lol. But I see your points. How about we just switch all of the PC's in the world to Apple computers and then we will all be saved.

[+BudMan MVC]

"just switch all of the PC's in the world to Apple computers and then we will all be saved."

From that statement, let me guess your a user ;)

[kubi789]

  On 30/01/2012 at 17:39, BudMan said:

"just switch all of the PC's in the world to Apple computers and then we will all be saved."

From that statement, let me guess your a user

I am a user. However, I am a user with a strong sense of sarcasm haha

[sc302 Veteran]

mmm...apple, the end all be all to security.

google search: pwn to own apple hacked and you will quickly see apple is as flawed or more than a windows pc when it comes to security.

this is from last year: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=21097

let see what happens this year.

[kubi789]

Apple being hackable? That doesn't surprise me one bit. But to argue this with a religious Apple fan boy would be a different story.

[sc302 Veteran]

take a look at what loops and hoops had to be gone through for windows, 3 vulnerabilities needed to execute a successful attack vs what looks to be 1 for apple.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/pwn2own-2011-ie8-on-windows-7-hijacked-with-3-vulnerabilities/8367?tag=content;siu-container

given enough time, knowledge, tools, and effort you can crack anything.

Quoting a Mac hacker in terms of security: "Mac OS X is like living in a farmhouse in the country with no locks, and Windows is living in a house with bars on the windows in the bad part of town"

[Daedroth]

If you're serious with your dislike of your filtered Internet connection in your work-place, lodge a complaint. Filtering systems are implemented for two reasons; 1) Protection against harmful or dangerous sites (especially in education), 2) Stop bone-idle workers wasting company time. If you fall under those two categories, then you are either not learning or not working hard enough.

Your company doesn't pay your lunch time, so why should they provide you access to your favourite websites?

[kubi789]

That brings up a bigger question. Why should a company provide you anything? But they do - 401K retirement plans, pensions, local corporate prices, paid holidays, free water coolers, a cafeteria, free lunches once in awhile, parties, happy hours, a kitchen, free coffee, etc etc. You could say I earned those, I guess. Now the question is, did I earn 30 minutes to browse the internet? I am not saying I did or didn't, however, it is not a simple as you state. I suppose a company has to draw a line somewhere though.

[sc302 Veteran]

where in your employment agreement does it say that you can use the company network for your own surfing during specified times? 401k is listed in your employee handbook as well as many other things that the company provides. some things are a gift though and are not there, like free lunches, and should be taken as a gift. They haven't gifted you 30 minutes to use their network for your own things, their network is company property and they can do with it as they wish.

[kubi789]

  On 30/01/2012 at 19:46, sc302 said:

where in your employment agreement does it say that you can use the company network for your own surfing during specified times???401k is listed in your employee handbook as well as many other things that the company provides.??some things are a gift though and are not there, like free lunches, and should be taken as a gift.??They haven't gifted you 30 minutes to use their network for your own things, their network is company property and they can do with it as they wish.

There is nowhere within my employee agreement that says I can use the network for my own personal use. You are absolutely right, a company's network is the company's property. I am not arguing either of these things. My point is, policies can change. A company doesn't have to offer its employees anything. A company does not have to offer a 401K or pension for that matter. One year you could have a pension, and the next year they can cut you off of the pension. Same with a 401K....Or anything within the employee handbook. Policies can be changed at any point in time without knowledge or reason. And what I am trying to argue is that I think some companies could ease up on their network censorship policies.

[sc302 Veteran]

Ok then, give a good reason as to why they should.

[Daedroth]

Let's say you employ 1500 people. Would you give them access to personal sites?

[kubi789]

I don't think companies should just let employees view whatever they want for all kinds of reason. However, personal email is different. I do everything through my personal email - set up appointments, doctor visits, dentists, email friends to set up a get together after work, email dinner plans, send insurance forms, car registration, etc etc. I can't speak for everyone, but my hours of operation hinder me from being able to do these things after work.

No, I would not give 1500 people access to personal sites. Personal email, yes.

And honestly, my voice is not the loudest one here in the office with this matter. I have a cell phone that allows me to check my email. I am sure there are a lot of other reasons that I am not hitting on because I have a smartphone.

I am not trying to revolt. I am trying to understand.

[Daedroth]

  On 30/01/2012 at 21:01, kubi789 said:

I don't think companies should just let employees view whatever they want for all kinds of reason. However, personal email is different. I do everything through my personal email - set up appointments, doctor visits, dentists, email friends to set up a get together after work, email dinner plans, send insurance forms, car registration, etc etc. I can't speak for everyone, but my hours of operation hinder me from being able to do these things after work.

No, I would not give 1500 people access to personal sites. Personal email, yes.

And honestly, my voice is not the loudest one here in the office with this matter. I have a cell phone that allows me to check my email. I am sure there are a lot of other reasons that I am not hitting on because I have a smartphone.

I am not trying to revolt. I am trying to understand.

Then use your phone, or an office phone, or a public phone to do those things. They aren't things that require email access. Plus, you can do all of that at home. But don't expect your company to use extra resources to allow you access onto your own personal email. Sure, it isn't the worst thing in the world, but you can check your email without using their resources, and if you can't, then anything that's so urgent can be done over the phone.

[sc302 Veteran]

Anything that is non urgent can be done at home, anything that is urgent is welcomed in any environment. Someone dying for instance would be considered urgent...

My wifes best friend died and I was notified while my wife was in training. During training she was not to be bothered. I spoke with her trainer and she gave me the lecture of no one can contact her and that she could not be bothered...I said calmly, ok then you can be the one to tell her that her best friend died it would be better for me that I didn't have to do it. She quickly got her and put her in an isolated room so I could give her the bad news and that I was coming to pick her up.

Point is, emergencies happen and businesses do have a little heart when it comes to that. If you don't abuse it, communication is welcomed. If you do abuse it, it is taken away. People, in general, abuse the crap out of the internet. While they get punished, so do the innocent...what is good for one is good for all. You want to put blame somewhere, blame the abusers.

[kubi789]

Very good point m.v.c. Well said.

I guess it only takes one abuser to ruin it for the rest. As long as my internet at home doesn't start getting blocked (Damn you SOPA and any more bills that try to filter the internet)

[PNWDweller]

I worked at a place which had in their policy 'incidental internet usage allowed" in which they loosly translated as "If you want to check your email once in a while, it is okay, but don't do it a lot". The internet there was filtered for obvious stuff like gambling, porn, etc...but was pretty much open. This was a health insurance provider customer contact center.

I worked at a different job which had NO filters whatsoever. Yet...they did watch your every move and record every click. Caught the main IT guy one time running a personal line from his computer past the proxy server and straight to the fiber lines so he couldn't be tracked. Walked past his office one day, lights were way down, he was in there playing an online game on it - evidenced by his speakers blaring.

Some places are obligated by law such as public agencies for filtering as tax-payers have the right to know what sites you visit and what you are spending their money on.

I was once told or actually the policy manual at one place said that using the internet for purposes other than for your work related needs was indeed theft of company property. It boiled down to semantics - company foots the bill for internet service which can be in the thousands of dollars/month depending on bandwidth. If you, the user are using more than appropriate (Believe me, the policy setters have exact numbers of how much is acceptable), then in their eyes, you are stealing the bandwidth which can be grounds for immediate termination. You aren't paying the bill so you have no right to complain (in their eyes). type of things.

I used to really abuse the internet privilege at a former job and stream music from shoutcast and go SFW places (The place that had no restrictions, but proxied). Funny thing happened to me though - after my job was eliminated (company downsized), I was left w/o work for several years in my field. I sort of re-evaluated my need for internet use at work and realized, that since I have internet at home and nothing I do in the internet world is so life altering for me, it can wait until I get home from work. Or at least wait until my break when I use my smartphone...

Something a wise old friend told me - When you are on the company time, you are technically their 'slave'. You have to obey their rules and their demands as long as it is legal. You have a choice to work there, and if you don't like their policies, leave. And something else others have said in this job market - it is an Employer's market. That is - For every job opening - there are hunderds clammering for the job and finding workers is too easy now days.

[kubi789]

Well said Medfordite. I must say that this conversation has helped me understand more about a company's network and its policies. I may not agree with all of the policies, but they are put in place for a reason. Honestly though, a company and its policies do make you feel like a slave.