Ubuntu Beats Windows 7

[Wakers]

I would love to be able to switch to Linux (Mint or Ubuntu or even Elementary) but every time I try I run into hardware support issues. At the moment, my netgear wireless dongle is not supported and the rather complicated, assbackward way to get it to work stops my Linux Mint install from booting up.

Which is always the problem with Linux - if everything works its as smooth as anything. The moment something doesn't work it is far too complicated to fix - if there is even a fix for it. Not only that, but looking for a thread on a forum on resolving an issue can often leave you with conflicting opinions on how to resolve an issue. Making a thread (particularly on the Ubuntu forums) has a high degree of it turning into "you're too dumb to run Linux" or "you need to replace this hardware with this, which will cost you this and this much" - hello? It's a free OS, I'm not going to replace components because they're not supported!

Also - DirectX games will play in Wine most of the time (after minutes or hours of faffing, depending on the issue) but they rarely perform as reliably or as quickly as if it's running in Windows natively (which makes sense, considering it has to run through an emulator).

When they get hardware support and troubleshooting up to par with MS, then MS are in trouble. Unfortunately that takes a lot of money and corporate support which I can't ever see Linux getting.

[Detection]

I think Linux is the best choice for a second PC or a Laptop/Netbook - for a main PC it has to be Windows

[ShMaunder]

Ubuntu 11.10 is the worst release of the 10 and 11 series though! It is a buggy rushed mess.

Its nice to see a lot of patches now getting committed for optimisations ready for 12.04, especially for stuff like Compiz and Unity. Using a Nvidia card and Compiz in 11.10 is the worst experience ever (compared to Win XP).

The 3.2 kernel also brings a lot of performance related fixes to the table. Why didn't they test with 12.04 is strange.

[simplezz]

I would love to be able to switch to Linux (Mint or Ubuntu or even Elementary) but every time I try I run into hardware support issues. At the moment, my netgear wireless dongle is not supported and the rather complicated, assbackward way to get it to work stops my Linux Mint install from booting up.

USB wireless dongles tend to be problematic with all OS's. I have one that refuses to work on Windows 7, but works perfectly fine on XP. I've found that PCI/PCIe wireless cards tend to have better universal OS support. You can pick one up for ?10-15 I believe. Anything with an Atheros chipset is usually a safe bet.

Which is always the problem with Linux - if everything works its as smooth as anything. The moment something doesn't work it is far too complicated to fix - if there is even a fix for it.

To be fair, the same applies to Windows drivers - Except there's no hope of a fix unless the manufacturer releases one.

Not only that, but looking for a thread on a forum on resolving an issue can often leave you with conflicting opinions on how to resolve an issue. Making a thread (particularly on the Ubuntu forums) has a high degree of it turning into "you're too dumb to run Linux" or "you need to replace this hardware with this, which will cost you this and this much" - hello? It's a free OS, I'm not going to replace components because they're not supported!

Most people who use Linux on a regular basis tend to choose their hardware based on Linux support. If you're running a machine that's only been designed and tested for Windows, then there's a chance that you might hit some road bumps with certain types of hardware - specifically USB devices which don't use a standard interface and require proprietary drivers. I rarely have a problem these days though with mainstream hardware that follows standards.

Also - DirectX games will play in Wine most of the time (after minutes or hours of faffing, depending on the issue) but they rarely perform as reliably or as quickly as if it's running in Windows natively (which makes sense, considering it has to run through an emulator).

In all fairness Wine isn't an emulator, in fact that's exactly what Wine stands for (it's a recursive acronym). It's a compatibility layer. It uses much of the same code that ReactOS uses.

As far as support and performance are concerned, there's nothing stopping you running a dual boot with Windows so you can play one of the few games that don't work out of the box on Linux. I do that myself, except not for games.

When they get hardware support and troubleshooting up to par with MS, then MS are in trouble. Unfortunately that takes a lot of money and corporate support which I can't ever see Linux getting.

Hardware support for non-standard protocols is mostly down to manufacturers. Some are better than others, on Windows and Linux. HP is good for printers for example. Broadcom, Intel, and many others support both platforms well. I find it's best to vote with my wallet. If companies are losing money due to poor Linux support, they'll soon change their minds.

[Motoko.]

Ubuntu 11.10 is the worst release of the 10 and 11 series though! It is a buggy rushed mess.

Its nice to see a lot of patches now getting committed for optimisations ready for 12.04, especially for stuff like Compiz and Unity. Using a Nvidia card and Compiz in 11.10 is the worst experience ever (compared to Win XP).

The 3.2 kernel also brings a lot of performance related fixes to the table. Why didn't they test with 12.04 is strange.

That's ironic, I thought nvidia cards had better open source drivers compared to ATi

[simplezz]

That's ironic, I thought nvidia cards had better open source drivers compared to ATi

The open source Radeon driver is better because ATI provides documentation on the hardware. Nvidia does not provide any help with the open source stuff, so the Nouveau driver has to be reverse engineered, as far as I know anyway. The proprietary drivers are the reverse though.

[Wakers]

Regarding hardware compatability for wireless dongles and other devices - two things;

1) It will say on the box if it's compatible with Windows and what version.

2) If you buy anything off the shelf of a high street shop or anything from an online shop that was released in the last two years it will be compatible with Windows 7.

That's a lot easier than researching on various forums as to whether it's compatible immediately with Linux and, if it isn't, whether the various fixes or workaround will actually work on your system. And this is part of the problem - it's ok saying that you should pick the parts based on the compatibility with Linux when you build a machine or upgrade - but if Linux wants to compete more strongly then it can't have that attitude. No OS has the driver support that Windows 7 has - no other OS comes close to it.

Linux is a free alternative and it needs to be better at "just working" with more hardware, otherwise it loses the advantage that it has by being free - if it's going to be a lot of trouble, lacks some of the more popular software and needs constant tweaking then people would rather splash out on Windows - especially when you can often find it for ?40 or there abouts.

[AJerman]

That's ironic, I thought nvidia cards had better open source drivers compared to ATi

Personally I've had nothing but trouble with Nvidia drivers. Then again, I have a VERY unique setup. I'm running an IBM T220 22" LCD on a very old Quadro FX simply because I think that's what they recommended for that monitor when they came out. (work computer) It's a display resolution of 3840x2400, using two DVI connections which I've never really gotten to work properly in Linux. Now aside from the fact that I'm using a ridiculous monitor on a very old card, what that means is that I've played with drivers a lot, and I've had several times that certain NVIDIA drivers would prevent the system from booting entirely. Definitely not the biggest fan of NVIDIA's Linux support right now.

I just wish my DiNivo keyboard still worked, the recent release breaks support for this keyboard. Everything else on Ubuntu though is really smooth

Wait what? The DiNovo doesn't work? When you say the recent release, do you mean 11.10? I have a DiNovo Edge keyboard which I've used in the past on my MacBook on Ubuntu and it worked fine, but I haven't had 11.10 on there (though I was considering installing it soon). Are you talking about a direct bluetooth connection? If you use the dongle it should still work, correct? The dongle interfaces with the keyboard directly and then communicates the keyboard's signals to the computer as if it were plugged in USB (rather than just being a bluetooth adapter).

Oh, but back to the original topic, I don't see where this is a huge surprise. Linux has frequently bested Windows in benchmarks. Benchmarks only tell a fraction of the story of "which is better" though.

[shockz]

I've definitely noticed the better file transfer speed differences in Ubuntu. Start up times are pretty similar.

Way to go Ubuntu, still can't get away from 7 yet though. Maybe in a few more months once I get my DRM'ed itunes music sorted.

[ZeroFearX]

Source

The day I will be able to run all applications/games installed on my computer, I might consider changing. Until then, Windows 7 wins, even if the benchmark say otherwise.

[ArialBlue]

Absolutely. Give it a try yourself, and see what results you get on your hardware.

The same can be done on Ubuntu. Services can be stopped, desktop effects turned off, drop down into a basic X session like TWM, or even run some of the tests using cli tools, but that wouldn't be the out of box performance and experience for most users would it?

I doubt many of the 3D tests would fair well on either OS with Intel GPU's.

Many find such benchmarks helpful. It gives an idea of the general performance differences between platforms.

Unfortunately that's down to a PCIe power saving bug in the kernel I think.

Looking forward to it myself too.

I am not touching Ubuntu, it fried my last laptop.

How is fair to run benchmarks on Windows 7 when it is busy with background tasks? Most of the time Windows 7 is idle - how is fair to purposively benchmark it when it is not?

Also it is up to the OS to put hardware into reduced power consumption modes. When Windows 7 is idle, the CPU is not running at full clock speeds for example. A fair benchmark would make sure both systems run at their full clock speeds. Windows 7 has two power settings "Balanced" which throttles hardware as it sees fit and "High Performance" which keep the CPU at maximum unless running on battery. Otherwise the benchmark is a essentially punishing an OS for saving your electricity bill.

Intel GPU are very popular considering that NVIDIA and AMD GPUs cost more. It is only fair to test with them.

XP may outperform 7 in many benchmarks actually. It just that doesn't mean that XP is better than 7.

[Site Lab]

As soon as AMD sort their drivers out on Linux (Yes i know about radeon). I will happily jump ship.

[bjoswald]

I'll happily dual-boot Ubuntu with Windows 7 once 12.04 is released.

[simplezz]

As soon as AMD sort their drivers out on Linux (Yes i know about radeon). I will happily jump ship.

The open source Radeon r600 driver (xf86-video-ati) is actually pretty good out of the box. I don't use the proprietary one any more.

The fact that I can run most 3D games with acceptable performance, and get updates without relying on AMD putting out a binary blob update far outweighs Nvidia's proprietary efforts. AMD must be given credit for providing specs to the open source developers.

[mak123]

linux is creating new thinks and various modifications in every new version, but windows and others just copied various features

because its open source... :rofl: