Windows XP Category View - The beginning of the uneducated user.

[+Warwagon MVC]

Windows XP Category View - The beginning of the uneducated user.

The Windows XP category view in the control panel, is a perfect example of taking something full of options and dumbing it down so much that users never even realize all the options that are available to them.

The Category view also makes getting to things harder and take more steps because they try to use a wizard like approach. The Average user is ok with this because to people who have never used a computer before, this is all they have ever known. Back in the Windows 98 and Windows 3.1 days it was much more hardcore.

I tend to think regular users were generally smarter and better at using a computer before Windows XP. They were by no means power users but they knew how to use and get around Windows better because key features of the OS were not hidden to them.

Lets fast forward to IE9, Firefox and other new UI's. File, Edit View? Who needs that? Let's just hide them! Sure you can still access them but let's hide them and get them out of the way.

Another good example is how IE 9 removed the status bar. I don't know about you but I like the status bar, sure you get more real Estate but at the cost of information. The status bar use to give a lot more information than it currently does. In IE9 all it basically tells you is waiting for reply and loading. The old bar use to give you a loading bar, not sure how necessary that is now.

So is hiding all of these key features benefiting the user or is it inadvertently making them less sophisticated with a computer

The one comment I always get in posts like this, is if people were educated you wouldn't have any work. By educated 'm not talking about fixing their own viruses, I'm referring to operating a computer.

Here is an Example

Lets take Customer A and customer B. Both need remote assistance and both need to be walked through installing GotoManage onto their computer.

Customer A knows how to operate the computer. You say Address bar and they knows where it's located at. You say start and they clicks the button in the bottom left hand corner. The process of walking them through fetching and installing the installation files for GotoManage is about 2 minutes sometimes less.

Customer B is terrible at operating a computer, you say click start they ask were that's located at. After spending 30 seconds telling them what the start button actually is, they ask which mouse button they should use to click it? You then have them open up internet explorer in which they respond they don't use internet explorer they use Google (not chrome but the search).

It takes another 2 mins just to explain to them where the address bar is located. I could go on and on but I've had the process of walking customer B through the GotoManage process take 10 mins.

Both of these customers need my help, but Customer A just makes for a less frustrated Warwagon and can let me get to work faster.

[+Ryster Subscriber²]

You're still harping on about XP? Oh dear lord. Perhaps you should just settle on DOS.

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

it's not just about XP, but XP was the starting point. Every version of <insert program here> has become more and more streamlined to the point where it actually hinders progress for a power user. i guarantee that 95% of people dont even know you can hit alt for the file menus to reappear.

[Fraud OS 11]

This is one of the primary reasons why Classic Shell (http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/) was developed, unfortunately with "Classic" in its name, it has a marketing problem. People think, going back, old obsolete but it's really for power users with customization needs. It also gives back IE9 its loading bar and some other features.

[Astral]

You say start and they clicks the button in the bottom right hand corner.

That's the problem right there...

[Seizure1990]

I always add the toolbars back into programs that remove them (IE, FF, etc), and setting my control panel to "classic" is one of the first things I do on a new install.

[+Warwagon MVC]

That's the problem right there...

Oops my bad!

I always add the toolbars back into programs that remove them (IE, FF, etc), and setting my control panel to "classic" is one of the first things I do on a new install.

In Firefox I always add / Menu Bar / Bookmark Bar / Navigation bar / Add-on bar/

[Phouchg]

Title is misleading.

But I approve. Somewhat. The current buzzword for this is "streamlined experience". More like "steamrolled experience" if you ask me. That way Average Joe might find it easier to operate all the high-tech sh*t (like, well, seatbelts), with a smaller chance to f*ck it all up. But idiocy is infinite and relentless. So when one ultimately succeeds in f*cking it all up... or, well, happens to need assistance for some other reason, those of us, who have experienced our respective "better days", even including Windows newfags, in general "power users", will inevitably start to hate our lives. However, it is unavoidable. If one is to sell big, one must cater to the crowd. And crowd seems to increasingly want "bread and circuses", current mobile device fad confirms that thousandfold. Also, console gaming *cough*

I'm going to play a Devil's advocate, though. George Orwell has said: "every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it". Even though this streamlining and abstraction obsessed generation couldn't have all they have without some people who actually know what they're doing, perhaps if they hadn't bothered to crawl up there, we'd be still punching punchcards *ooga-booga* and playing Call Of Mario on a daily-basis.

In order to deal with it, I'm somewhat happy that it's often possible to turn legacy features back on, or hax the crap out of something. And, of course, I occassionally rant about the coming idiocracy in a similar manner to what's here, subconsciously acknowledging that resistance is useless. I can go and "install Gentoo" and tell it to everyone thereafter. To what end? To be ridiculed of unnecessary complicating my own life.

[DeadEndAccount]

I would argue that the category view was not only a step backwards for 'power users' but 'regular users' as well. You'd be surprised the number of 'regular users' who would get angry because they couldn't find what they wanted - having to go and check every single category until they found what they needed vs. having all the icons in one place all at once. I'm all for change when the change actually has some material real world data to back it up other than a engineers flight of fancy based on a coffee table discussion they had with friends and family one night.

[+Warwagon MVC]

I would argue that the category view was not only a step backwards for 'power users' but 'regular users' as well. You'd be surprised the number of 'regular users' who would get angry because they couldn't find what they wanted - having to go and check every single category until they found what they needed vs. having all the icons in one place all at once. I'm all for change when the change actually has some material real world data to back it up other than a engineers flight of fancy based on a coffee table discussion they had with friends and family one night.

Agreed and my point of view was pointed towards the regular user.

[Seizure1990]

In order to deal with it, I'm somewhat happy that it's often possible to turn legacy features back on, or hax the crap out of something.

Yea, this. It doesn't bother me too much because I can always just turn it back.

Do you guys think that the occurrence of people messing up their own computers would increase, decrease or remain as is if all the menus were designed for advanced users?

[Raa]

Perhaps you should just settle on DOS.

MS-DOS rocks! It never crashed on me ;)

Also Windows technically is a DOS. :p

[+Warwagon MVC]

MS-DOS rocks! It never crashed on me ;)

Also Windows technically is a DOS. :p

Actually the last Windows that was technically dos was Windows ME, but they tried to cover up DOS but it was still Windows 9x.

[Seizure1990]

Also Windows technically is a DOS. :p

Windows hasn't been built around DOS since Windows 98.

Edit: Oh right, if you count ME... :p

[Raa]

Actually the last Windows that was technically dos was Windows ME, but they tried to cover up DOS but it was still Windows 9x.

Windows hasn't been built around DOS since Windows 98.

Edit: Oh right, if you count ME... :p

You missed what I meant. Windows is still technically a DOS - meaning a Disk Operating System. ;)

But yes I know what you refer to as well.

[Seizure1990]

You missed what I meant. Windows is still technically a DOS - meaning a Disk Operating System. ;)

But yes I know what you refer to as well.

Lol, sure, but then every mainstream Linux distro, plus OS X, are "DOS" as well. ;P

[Raa]

Lol, sure, but then every mainstream Linux distro, plus OS X, are "DOS" as well. ;P

That's right. I never said they weren't. :p

[cooky560 Veteran]

Yea, this. It doesn't bother me too much because I can always just turn it back.

Do you guys think that the occurrence of people messing up their own computers would increase, decrease or remain as is if all the menus were designed for advanced users?

I imagine it would make no difference whatsoever, since most people will leave the now visible advanced features well alone. My 1980s CD player is a good example of this, it has tons of advanced features, including various mixing features, and as such the remote control has easily more than 100 buttons, over 2 layers (the front opens and there's yet more buttons inside) yet no-one has ever had any trouble listening to a CD on it, they just ignore the advanced buttons, and look for the ones they want (typically play and the track numbers).

[+Warwagon MVC]

I fear after the release of windows 8 the average PC user is going get significantly worse.

Windows 8 is like the movie idiocracy.

[Dot Matrix]

I don't get what you are trying to say, are you telling me people are idiots for wanting simpler computing?

[simplezz]

If you try to hide the complexity of the system, you'll end up with a more complex system". Layers of abstraction that serve to hide internals are never a good thing. Instead, the internals should be designed in a way such that they NEED no hiding.

[Fraud OS 11]

I don't get what you are trying to say, are you telling me people are idiots for wanting simpler computing?

No the whole point is just that one size does not fit all and if a product is engineered only for simplicity, it does not meet power users' needs but if a product is engineered from a power user perspective with a way to turn off/disable the advanced features, it can serve both kinds of users.

[Ci7]

I fear after the release of windows 8 the average PC user is going get significantly worse.

Windows 8 is like the movie idiocracy.

let them be!

or us techie would be cleaning toilets by now