official Halo 4

[Hardcore Til I Die]

http://www.joystiq.c...-unlockable-ab/

Why whine about screen shots when there's a video out there already.

Unlockable abilities? Talk about alienating about 99% of their competitive fanbase. The whole point of Halo is that it's a level playing field and not some stupid game like COD where people have the advantage just because they've been playing longer.

I hope that isn't true.

[Emn1ty]

Unlockable abilities? Talk about alienating about 99% of their competitive fanbase. The whole point of Halo is that it's a level playing field and not some stupid game like COD where people have the advantage just because they've been playing longer.

I hope that isn't true.

I already knew this was going to be the case the moment they announced they were making load outs customizeable before the game and that they were eliminating the weapon spawn system. I'll probably buy the collectors edition just for the box and campaign. The multiplayer, I fear, will be horrible.

[Anthony Tosie Veteran]

I actually liked the temporary box art that just showed Master Chief in a close-up (chest-up) shot more than the final art.

[George P Global Moderator]

I personally don't care for MP in games in general last MP I did was some horde in Gears 3. That said, this SpecOps episodic mission co-op stuff sounds good, I might get back on Gold to give that a go. As far as War Games goes, I dunno, doubt I'd do any of that. It's got nothing to do with the change to the system, I'm just not big on MP.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

Bah, the limited edition is $130 over here, since they're selling the normal edition for $99.

[LingeringSoul]

Yikes, definitely not liking the idea of unlockable abilities. I'm probably preaching to the choir with this, but I love how Halo provided a relatively balanced playing field when compared to other first person shooters out there, especially in the console space. It seemed closer to the kind of "pure" FPS that we used to enjoy back in the older days of the PC. Unlockable abilities just seems like a really unfortunate and misguided concession to the CoD fans. I'm trying not to pass judgement when we know virtually nothing about the system, but you can definitely colour me nervous.

At least the Battle Rifle is back, though. I didn't mind the DMR in Halo: Reach, but the BR brings back some very fond memories.

EDIT: Whoa, just realized how old that Joystiq article is. I've been out of the loop, apparently.

[BajiRav]

Unlockable abilities? Talk about alienating about 99% of their competitive fanbase. The whole point of Halo is that it's a level playing field and not some stupid game like COD where people have the advantage just because they've been playing longer.

I hope that isn't true.

AFAIK, unlockable abilities are still balanced by loadouts i.e. you can't create a loadout with power weapons like snipers/rockets in normal slayer games etc. They haven't explained everything yet but one thing they did mention is that there will be classic playlists with traditional Halo setup where everyone starts on an even ground. I personally hate the CoD style system where if you start a few days later, you stand to lose big time because of the abilities gap.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

They're going to say more about it at E3, hopefully it doesn't end up as just another CoD MP clone.

[Emn1ty]

AFAIK, unlockable abilities are still balanced by loadouts i.e. you can't create a loadout with power weapons like snipers/rockets in normal slayer games etc. They haven't explained everything yet but one thing they did mention is that there will be classic playlists with traditional Halo setup where everyone starts on an even ground. I personally hate the CoD style system where if you start a few days later, you stand to lose big time because of the abilities gap.

No, but you can have one guy able to use Armor Lock and the other unable to use it (ie, not a level playing field). Even though I hate armor abilities and loadouts, Reach kept the playing field relatively even by restricting it to the gametype/map rather than what the player could come up with.

In Halo 4, it is quite likely to see someone running around with active camo and a shotgun on game start.

[BajiRav]

No, but you can have one guy able to use Armor Lock and the other unable to use it (ie, not a level playing field). Even though I hate armor abilities and loadouts, Reach kept the playing field relatively even by restricting it to the gametype/map rather than what the player could come up with.

In Halo 4, it is quite likely to see someone running around with active camo and a shotgun on game start.

Hmm..I hope they have classic Halo playlists then. The CoD setup sucks.

FTR, I loved shotgun+camo combo (and camping :p) in CE matches(especially CTFs). It's fun when you are doing it to your friends, not so much when they do it to you. :p I haven't done it on Live though, kills the gameflow.

[Hardcore Til I Die]

No, but you can have one guy able to use Armor Lock and the other unable to use it (ie, not a level playing field). Even though I hate armor abilities and loadouts, Reach kept the playing field relatively even by restricting it to the gametype/map rather than what the player could come up with.

In Halo 4, it is quite likely to see someone running around with active camo and a shotgun on game start.

Exactly.

I also read that weapon spawns will be somewhat random too, which further removes the skill from the game. Map control is one of the most important aspects of every Halo game so far.

I'll hold judgement until I actually play the game, but it sounds like it could be awful!

[HawkMan]

Yeah ,spawncamping is skill. much more so than actually killing the other guy in a fair fight...

[Hardcore Til I Die]

Yeah ,spawncamping is skill. much more so than actually killing the other guy in a fair fight...

Spawn camping IS skill. You have to destroy the other team to get in that position in the first place, so you've already had a fair fight and won! MLG pros spawn camp all the time. It's a valid tactic.

[Jose_49]

Exactly.

I also read that weapon spawns will be somewhat random too, which further removes the skill from the game. Map control is one of the most important aspects of every Halo game so far.

I'll hold judgement until I actually play the game, but it sounds like it could be awful!

I see it quite the opposite. There were maps in all the Halo games that gave the advantage to one team due to their position.

And knowing how motivated they are, I don't think they will make something bad.

[Hardcore Til I Die]

I see it quite the opposite. There were maps in all the Halo games that gave the advantage to one team due to their position.

And knowing how motivated they are, I don't think they will make something bad.

You're right, but the solution is to make better maps, not to change the weapon spawn system. There are completely symmetrical maps like the pit on Halo 3. There are also asymmetrical maps which are a level playing field, such as Asylum on Halo Reach.

Guardian on Halo 3 is a good example of a badly made map, at least with the default spawn locations. One side got overshield, sniper and gravity hammer, AND a chance at camo, while the other side only got shotgun and a chance at invisibility. MLG settings evened the playing field a lot.

Every Halo game has had fixed weapon spawns and has always been a level playing field so far as starting weapons and abilities are concerned (with the exception of "Fiesta" type games, which are just a bit of fun with random weapon spawns). Removing such fundamental parts of the game is a big mistake given how successful all of the Halo games have been.

[Emn1ty]

Yeah ,spawncamping is skill. much more so than actually killing the other guy in a fair fight...

I see it quite the opposite. There were maps in all the Halo games that gave the advantage to one team due to their position.

And knowing how motivated they are, I don't think they will make something bad.

Spawnkilling only really became a serious problem in Halo 3 and Reach. Halo 2 had relatively little spawn camping (mostly due to extremely well designed maps). Halo 3 and Reach had some of the worst MP maps in the Halo series. Even in Halo CE it was difficult to spawn camp due to the health bar.

And as much as I hate games being determined in the first few minutes (which is how the professional matches went), the online multiplayer wasn't plagued with that issue since not everyone was quite as high skill as the professionals. Map control is one of the best parts of Halo, as well as knowing how to overcome loss of said control. Making the weapon spawns randomized will remove that aspect and create situation that is even harder to come back from. If one team controls the power weapons at start, the other team has no predictable location to travel to undermine the enemy team. And vice versa as well. Games that are decided by the flip of a coin are not conducive to skilled and engaging gameplay.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

I fail to see how camping a weapon spawn point is skill, anybody can do it once they know where the weapon actually spawns (And that's pretty easy since Waypoint shows you)

[Hardcore Til I Die]

Spawnkilling only really became a serious problem in Halo 3 and Reach. Halo 2 had relatively little spawn camping (mostly due to extremely well designed maps). Halo 3 and Reach had some of the worst MP maps in the Halo series. Even in Halo CE it was difficult to spawn camp due to the health bar.

And as much as I hate games being determined in the first few minutes (which is how the professional matches went), the online multiplayer wasn't plagued with that issue since not everyone was quite as high skill as the professionals. Map control is one of the best parts of Halo, as well as knowing how to overcome loss of said control. Making the weapon spawns randomized will remove that aspect and create situation that is even harder to come back from. If one team controls the power weapons at start, the other team has no predictable location to travel to undermine the enemy team. And vice versa as well. Games that are decided by the flip of a coin are not conducive to skilled and engaging gameplay.

Spawn killing isn't a problem, it's a sign that the person needs to get better or play in a different playlist. In Halo 3, you could actually predict where people are going to spawn based on what you and your teammates are doing. You could throw a grenade at a spawn point to force somebody not to spawn there. There were actually really skilled aspects of spawn control. It's not a problem, it's a competitive edge to the game.

I fail to see how camping a weapon spawn point is skill, anybody can do it once they know where the weapon actually spawns (And that's pretty easy since Waypoint shows you)

People who sit there camping the weapon all game aren't skilled, and usually don't do very well at all. The skill comes in by holding down key points of the map that allows you to control the power weapons. For example, in Halo 3 the sniper tower was the key to winning the game on Guardian. Nobody was suggesting you should sit waiting for the sniper the whole game, but it's important to keep the other team off of the sniper tower so that you can get the weapon when it comes up. That IS skill, and I don't see how anyone can say it isn't. You can also time when the weapons are going to spawn and make a controlled push for them.

Random weapon spawns makes the game more random, making competitive gameplay more difficult. Some noob could be running along in a random part of the map, and a rocket launcher just drops at his feet and he gets four kills with it. That sort of random bull**** could kill Halo for me.

The better team SHOULD win, not the one that just happened to get lucky with weapon spawns.

[S00N3R FR3AK]

OK switching gears. for reach are both map packs worth getting?

[Hardcore Til I Die]

OK switching gears. for reach are both map packs worth getting?

Yeah. Wasn't keen on the first map pack at all, but it enables you to play in all playlists so it's worth it for that reason alone.

[cropcircles]

I better play Halo 2 and 3 before 4 comes out so on don't miss out on any of the red vs. blue soap opera.

[S00N3R FR3AK]

Yeah. Wasn't keen on the first map pack at all, but it enables you to play in all playlists so it's worth it for that reason alone.

I splurged lol, bought Halo 1 and the two map packs.

[Hardcore Til I Die]

I splurged lol, bought Halo 1 and the two map packs.

Good choice :D

Really wish Xbox live was around for Halo 1.

[S00N3R FR3AK]

Popped in 1 just too see the new graphics and memories came flooding back. Almost like when I saw the Zelda concert.

[BajiRav]

Popped in 1 just too see the new graphics and memories came flooding back. Almost like when I saw the Zelda concert.

I was switching graphics half the time to check old graphics and how it looked updated. Memories!