[UK] Best Fibre Optic ISP?

[Tjcrazy]

Hi all!

I'm moving into a student house of 8 people in the summer, and been assigned the job of internet setup.

Here are the details:

• House is in Cardiff
  
• The house currently has fibre optic with Virgin Media (not sure on speed)
  
• We will have 8 people living in the house
  
• All of us use iPlayer or similiar a lot, as well as online gaming
  
• Some of us use P2P for iso's and similar
  
• The house is 3 floors with a basement, the fibre optic connection is on the ground floor
  

Based on this, I'm thinking a 60Mb package from Virgin Media at ?27.50 a month would be the best?

However, I'm unsure about any ISPs for fibre optic. Anyone got any other experience with BT, TalkTalk etc?

Anyone got any recommendations?

Thanks,

Tim

[+Byt Subscriber¹]

Virgin all the way :)

[n_K]

VM will cap you down to 20% or so, plus they have traffic management so as soon as you start downloading anything off torrents your entire network speeds gets capped to something rediculous. I tried with 'forced encryption' on once and it seemed to solve it but I haven't used torrents since the first arch linux release for raspberry pi came out.

[Crisp]

P2P and VM don't go together.

BT Infinity if you can get it, offers 80down 20up. Which would be better than the VM package (60Mb) and cheaper.

[n_K]

I'm moving to BT, but like VM, BT WILL cap your speed instantly as soon as you start using bittorrent, they don't have any other traffic management or cut your speed down when you download XMB in X time or anything, just torrents.

On VM you get free usenet, if people still use that.

[Phemo]

Also it's a minor detail but these ISPs that advertise as fibre are just marketing tripe. Virgin is coax cable coming into your house with fibre only up to the street cabinet. VDSL/FTTC with BT Infinity is very similar with fibre to the street cabs and regular copper phone cable into the house. I hate the way they avertise as fibre when they're not and don't think Virgin or the VDSL ISPs should be able to get away with it.

[Tjcrazy]

OK, Mixed reviews. However if I go with BT, will I have to pay loads to get a new line put in? Never dealt with fibre before!

[WelshBluebird]

The only issue you may have is as far as I am aware, only Virgin offer 9 month contracts. I am pretty sure everyone else has a 12 month contract, which may be an issue if you don't have a 12 month contract for the house.

Personally, we're on Virgin's 30Mbps package, and its been fine (between 3 of us). No issues regarding torrenting and stuff (although I am the only one in the house who does use torrents).

[torrentthief]

find out if you can even get FTTC in your area first. I think the post office offer free install, sky might too. they both sell FTTC. Virgin is probably your best bet though.

[sagum]

On VM you get free usenet, if people still use that.

You get free usenet access on BT as well, however it is limited to 2Mbit IIRC, but the retention is full. Provided by giganews.

Name: europe.isp.giganews.com

Address: 216.196.109.145

Aliases: news.btinternet.com

I'm on Virgin Media and I can say that Virgin Media offer an amazing service in my area. However, don't use their superhub's router function. Grab a cheap D-Link or linksys and put DD-WRT on it and use that. Setup QOS properly using 90% bandwidth and you'll not have any problems with anyone lagging out even if someone is using bit torrents while you play MW3/WoW type games while on VoIP.

Now, the bit that everyone forgets.

The area you will be moving into might be 'over subscribed' and is usually not the fact. More often it seems to be people messing with the network plugging extra cable extentions and other modems and STBs. While they don't always cause a problem they do provide noise on the network and takes one of their techy thugs to come out and stick a filter on the cable. So when they do install the modem, they'll ask you where you want it. Tell them exactly and they'll provide all the cable and staple it to the wall for you.

Once that's done, don't use wifi if at all possible. Chances are you'll have very other student in the area already running their own wifi network and they'll be over lapping channels already if not on the same channel and then your router and wifi connection will be channel hopping allday anyway. Not good if you want a stable connection. Get some cat5 cable from your local store and run some cable to each room that needs it. Have your flat mates plug into that if they want a decent connection or use the wifi if they want to wing it and hope for the best.

Also, I'm pretty sure Virgin do a student contract that you can cancel any time with 3 months notice, haven't checked that out in a while so don't hold me to it. But remember you can ADD your own terms to thier contract. So call them up, explain that its a student area and ask if there are any known problems and any problems they've had in the area over the last 6 months and ask if you can have an opt out added to your contact if they have problems while in your first year of contract. If you need to, ask to be put through to retentions to work out a deal on that basis.

Also, don't use Bit torrents. There are plenty betters of ways to get content without using it. Never had problems with Virgin's speeds and bit torrents though TBH.

I'm on 50mbit connection, no speed issues any time of day and bit torrents don't affect it either. So meh,... free upgrade to 120mb in several months too.

[Tjcrazy]

Virgin Media sound like the best bet then! Thanks sagum, for you detailed insight!

Is there 'Super Hub' poor quality then? WiFi is going to have to be an option, I'm sure I can change the channel settings in the control panel?

12 month contract for the house, but we will only be living in it for 8 of the months really.. However, Virgin dont offer there 9 month contracts anymore.

[game_over]

Virgin Media sound like the best bet then! Thanks sagum, for you detailed insight! Is there 'Super Hub' poor quality then? WiFi is going to have to be an option, I'm sure I can change the channel settings in the control panel? 12 month contract for the house, but we will only be living in it for 8 of the months really.. However, Virgin dont offer there 9 month contracts anymore.

I have 30MB with Virgin and dont notice any capping when using Torrents. i seem to get better speeds with torrents that anything else tbh.

SuperHub is OK but it took me a while to find it's sweet spot.. my TV interfered with it big time and the position of my laptop was making it hard to get a clear signal, i've moved it further away from TV and now it's fine.

[Bambii]

Not sure what experience people have had with P2P and VM but I'm on VM and I get amazingly fast speeds... my record from what I can remember is 3.9mb/s

Never tried BT Infinity but I can thumbs up VM

EDIT: Although I echo the superhub thing is totally crap. Get yourself a decent router and use modem mode on the superhub.

[Vice]

I'm on the 120Mb package with Virgin Media and I don't have any issues with P2P. It just works, no throttling at all.

The speeds are excellent they advertise 120Mb and that is exactly what you get. I have a dedicated 1Gb servers in France and I can pull about 105-115Mb/ps from those to my VM line at any time of day over HTTP/FTP/Bittorrent. iPlayer, YouTube and other streaming video services buffer almost instantaneously regardless of quality level. Even the 1080p stuff on youtube is instant watch and buffers probably 10x faster than the videos play speed meaning there are no interruptions.

I can only really recommend Virgin Media as that is who I've been with for yonks and I'll admit there has been problems. Every few years VM tries to introduce some kind of P2P management system and it was affecting me until about 8 months ago where for some reason it just stopped being a problem and my P2P speeds went back to normal. I don't know if they upgraded their systems, improved their STM policy or just removed the Anti-P2P throttling altogether but things just work fine now.

If you want to look at other services definetly check out BT as their upload speed is faster than Virgin Medias. Currently VM's 120Mb down only offers 12Mb up while BT is offering 80Mb down / 20Mb up so if you or your house mates need more upload or intend to host any services from home such as a game server or a smallish website BT may be the way to go.

Oh and one last thing, the super hub VM give out is complete cack. Get your own Router.

[CPressland]

Yeah I'm currently on 50MB and moving up to 120MB shortly, the SuperHub is simply used as a Modem for myself, I have a pfSense Firewall and a TP-Link AP handing everything else.

Otherwise - Virgin is the best bet.

[Detection]

You get free usenet access on BT as well, however it is limited to 2Mbit IIRC, but the retention is full. Provided by giganews.

Name: europe.isp.giganews.com

Address: 216.196.109.145

Aliases: news.btinternet.com

Never used usenet before, I`m with BT, what do I need to use the above details ? I`m guessing some kind of client ?

[CPressland]

Never used usenet before, I`m with BT, what do I need to use the above details ? I`m guessing some kind of client ?

There are other threads on Neowin discussing this. But basically. sabnzbd and one of the sites mentioned in those threads.

[Detection]

There are other threads on Neowin discussing this. But basically. sabnzbd and one of the sites mentioned in those threads.

Thanks

[Tjcrazy]

Seems like VM will be my choice of ISP for next year!

However the Super Hub seems to be getting negative feedback from most of you. Would it be best just to get a LAN router, linked from the SuperHub? Or get a router to replace the Super Hub?

For both, whats the cheapest - Thinking around the ?30 mark.

[CPressland]

Would it be best just to get a LAN router, linked from the SuperHub? Or get a router to replace the Super Hub?

You cannot replace the Super Hub - only place it in 'Modem Mode'.

For both, whats the cheapest - Thinking around the ?30 mark.

You won't find a Router that can route at 100Mbps for ?30. Most negative reviews regarding the SuperHub are the lack of third party DNS and the Wireless Functionality. Easiest fix, turn off the Wireless and buy a TP-Link Wireless N Access Point. Thats the only solution you'll find for that kind of Budget.

[Detection]

You cannot replace the Super Hub - only place it in 'Modem Mode'.

You won't find a Router that can route at 100Mbps for ?30. Most negative reviews regarding the SuperHub are the lack of third party DNS and the Wireless Functionality. Easiest fix, turn off the Wireless and buy a TP-Link Wireless N Access Point. Thats the only solution you'll find for that kind of Budget.

Won't find a router that can route @ 100Mbps for ?30 ?

Do you mean wirelessly ? All cheap routers are 10/100 wired, its the 10/100/1000 that start costing more

[CPressland]

Do you mean wirelessly ? All cheap routers are 10/100 wired, its the 10/100/1000 that start costing more

Yeah any router can SWITCH at 10/100/1000, because this doesn't require any CPU time by the Router itself. But Routing 100/1000 uses a MASSIVE amount of power. WAN > LAN uses CPU time. LAN > LAN only has a tiny overhead.

See example: http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwan/router-charts/view

[game_over]

Don't bother with another router until you need to, yes the reviews are bad but VM have 1000s of customers and i'm sure it'l only be a small % that have complaints. Plus everyone on here are tech geeks and probably expect more advanced/technical stuff.

I'll admit the wireless isn't great but in my case i found it down to it's position.. try it out before you potentially waste money on something you wont need.

[psionicinversion]

id go with virgin media, you pay for 60Mbit thats what you get. On BT you pay for upto 40 Mbit most likely receive bout 25 Mbit thats why its cheaper cus youll never get whats advertised unless you live right next to the cabinet. Even going 50 meters away drops the speed alot, 100 meters ya looking at bout 20-25Mbit etc more than 150 your looking at about 15Mbit i think.

It may not be fibre to your house with virgin but coaxial cable handles data a hell of alot better than your copper phone lines.

[Detection]

id go with virgin media, you pay for 60Mbit thats what you get. On BT you pay for upto 40 Mbit most likely receive bout 25 Mbit thats why its cheaper cus youll never get whats advertised unless you live right next to the cabinet. Even going 50 meters away drops the speed alot, 100 meters ya looking at bout 20-25Mbit etc more than 150 your looking at about 15Mbit i think.

It may not be fibre to your house with virgin but coaxial cable handles data a hell of alot better than your copper phone lines.

I pay for 76/18 with BT and get 75/17

Cab is about 100-150m away, doesn't drop that much