Reality check - Windows 8 was not made for you

[Arceles]

Too keep me from ruining my day, I will only answer to this. There are people that play MP3 on Win8 rtm ... so yea.

No other game has failed on me as MP3, I ddi update too... wonder what is the problem then, will check later again.

[.Neo]

Yep I am aware of that. However, I have a feeling it is coming, just in the next "major" release, Like OS11 (or OSX 11) :)

Again this is just me watching it.

Yeah people were sure it would happen after OS X Lion too. It didn't.

[FloatingFatMan]

And why would you even NEED to rewrite your existing LOB applications?

Why wouldn't they run on Windows 8 *as is*?

Other than AV and other security applications (mostly so rife with OS-isms they are basically custom-written for a specific OS every year) I haven't found so much as ONE Win32 application that worked in 7 that didn't work in either 8 Preview or the RTM of 8.

Will the hardware the applications are running change?

If the answer to that is *no*, then why rewrite the application?

That's right - you can upgrade the OS *without* upgrading the application.

Or is it all about *justifying the existence* for the developer?

Of course I don't "need" to. But I was asked by my boss to look in to a metro version to roll out to tablets, and the preference was to stay Windows. Looks like that won't be happening. It's not the end of the world, but it's a puzzling omission, and a damned shame too.

[Amarok]

Windows 8 seems to be designed exclusively for the tablet crowd. It's not for the more casual users although they're the ones who are going to have to suffer with it most. It's going to come bundled with their new PC purchases and they're going to absolutely despise it as those types of consumers are very resistant to change. It's not for the power users. If someone likes Windows 8 that's fine, for me personally it decreased my productivity and after over a month of playing with it, it still gets in my way. Performance increases in some applications are fantastic, just about everything else is not so fantastic. I've installed it for a couple of less tech savvy people and so far they haven't seemed thrilled with it either. No need to switch to Linux though, I'll just be sticking with 7 until they either fix 8 or release 9. I skipped WinME, I skipped Vista, no big deal. But for the people who enjoy it, well good! Glad you like it! :)

[PGHammer]

Windows 8 seems to be designed exclusively for the tablet crowd. It's not for the more casual users although they're the ones who are going to have to suffer with it most. It's going to come bundled with their new PC purchases and they're going to absolutely despise it as those types of consumers are very resistant to change. It's not for the power users. If someone likes Windows 8 that's fine, for me personally it decreased my productivity and after over a month of playing with it, it still gets in my way. Performance increases in some applications are fantastic, just about everything else is not so fantastic. I've installed it for a couple of less tech savvy people and so far they haven't seemed thrilled with it either. No need to switch to Linux though, I'll just be sticking with 7 until they either fix 8 or release 9. I skipped WinME, I skipped Vista, no big deal. But for the people who enjoy it, well good! Glad you like it! :)

Sometimes it can be all in the presentation - in other cases, folks that are *set in their ways* simply can't let go of those preconceptions.

I've never said that Windows 8 and the Modern UI isn't a massive change for previous versions of Windows - in fact, I've said that the change from previous versions is quite massive.

But there are indeed massive preconceptions to get over for the long-time Windows user - one of the biggest is that it's a "phone/tablet" OS.

If it were just a *phone/tablet* OS, then using Word, or Outlook, or even playing Crysis 2, or Guild Wars 2, or Diablo III, or StarCraft II, would not be merely implausible, but quite impossible.

Yet it is doable (all of it) on Windows 8 RTM today. Still, that preconception (which is not merely provably wrong, but proven wrong on a daily basis) persists.

It's not a *touch-only* or even *touch-first* UI any more than that of Android 3.x, let alone 4.x, is. It's a *touch-plus* UX - it supports touch and keyboards and mice - each or all.

And just about all of the criticism (in every single thread) in terms of Windows 8 is grounded in that preconception.

It's not only not logical, it's not even true.

*Seems* Amarok, is grounded in an assumption - and haven't you heard the proverb about what happens when you assume? ("When you ASSUME, you make an ASS of U and ME!")

I'd been hearing that assumption since the first *screenshots* of the Developer Preview (complete with Modern UI) leaked.

It's a preconception, and an understandable one; however, with plenty of evidence to back it up, it is just plain and simply wrong.

[vcfan]

many people seem to be reviewing windows 8 as if they are using the metro version of the applications they usually use,and saying things like its not productive,blah blah blah. that is just lame guys. there are no apps yet for anyone to make that conclusion. theres a few display apps that are basically to show off the interface, but the serious ones arent out yet,so those opinions are irrelevant at the moment.

[PGHammer]

Of course I don't "need" to. But I was asked by my boss to look in to a metro version to roll out to tablets, and the preference was to stay Windows. Looks like that won't be happening. It's not the end of the world, but it's a puzzling omission, and a damned shame too.

Basically a niche sub-version.

However, those same changes that you complain were made were in fact made to protect the client from server-side malware.

Also, you are thinking in terms of WinRT for the API - have you considered a Win32, but ModernUI, version of the application?

You still have touch support (Office 2013's applications are a solid example of touch in a Win32, yet ModernUI, application), so tablet deployment is far from impossible. You can even deploy it on desktops (nice thing about a ModernUI touch application - it's also mouseable, and with zero code changes). Just change the API in use.

Sometimes it can be all in the presentation - in other cases, folks that are *set in their ways* simply can't let go of those preconceptions.

I've never said that Windows 8 and the Modern UI isn't a massive change for previous versions of Windows - in fact, I've said that the change from previous versions is quite massive.

But there are indeed massive preconceptions to get over for the long-time Windows user - one of the biggest is that it's a "phone/tablet" OS.

If it were just a *phone/tablet* OS, then using Word, or Outlook, or even playing Crysis 2, or Guild Wars 2, or Diablo III, or StarCraft II, would not be merely implausible, but quite impossible.

Yet it is doable (all of it) on Windows 8 RTM today. Still, that preconception (which is not merely provably wrong, but proven wrong on a daily basis) persists.

It's not a *touch-only* or even *touch-first* UI any more than that of Android 3.x, let alone 4.x, is. It's a *touch-plus* UX - it supports touch and keyboards and mice - each or all.

And just about all of the criticism (in every single thread) in terms of Windows 8 is grounded in that preconception.

It's not only not logical, it's not even true.

*Seems* Amarok, is grounded in an assumption - and haven't you heard the proverb about what happens when you assume? ("When you ASSUME, you make an ASS of U and ME!")

I'd been hearing that assumption since the first *screenshots* of the Developer Preview (complete with Modern UI) leaked.

It's a preconception, and an understandable one; however, with plenty of evidence to back it up, it is just plain and simply wrong.

[PGHammer]

many people seem to be reviewing windows 8 as if they are using the metro version of the applications they usually use,and saying things like its not productive,blah blah blah. that is just lame guys. there are no apps yet for anyone to make that conclusion. theres a few display apps that are basically to show off the interface, but the serious ones arent out yet,so those opinions are irrelevant at the moment.

I complained about exactly that during the Previews - Windows 8 got treated as if it were WindowsRT, as opposed to an upgrade from Windows 7.

While Windows 8 *also* has the WinRT API, it still has the Win32 API - the same API of Windows 7, in other words - yet outside of a few gamers (on both sides of the fence) Win32 application compatibility got pretty much ignored (except in passing) by the critics - despite that being an area where preview versions of Windows have historically had their issues.

I tested Win32 games and applications thoroughly; in fact, I pushed them harder than I would the same applications or games under Windows 7 Other than the DX11 issue with Crysis (unique to the Previews) and the TERA Online client issue (again, unique to the Previews - the RTM of 8 runs both fine) nothing broke. At all. That's likely why it barely got a mention - it didn't fit the bash-8 agenda; how do you put a negative spin on a non-event?

[FloatingFatMan]

Also, you are thinking in terms of WinRT for the API - have you considered a Win32, but ModernUI, version of the application?

You still have touch support (Office 2013's applications are a solid example of touch in a Win32, yet ModernUI, application), so tablet deployment is far from impossible. You can even deploy it on desktops (nice thing about a ModernUI touch application - it's also mouseable, and with zero code changes). Just change the API in use.

Of course I've considered that, but the general idea was for using WinRT tablets rather than the more expensive Intel based ones, hence Metro, also possibly versions for WP8 phones, too. If we aren't going to use new UI to its fullest, why even bother at all? May as well just stick with WPF and forget the phones completely, or go Android.

[PGHammer]

Of course I've considered that, but the general idea was for using WinRT tablets rather than the more expensive Intel based ones, hence Metro, also possibly versions for WP8 phones, too. If we aren't going to use new UI to its fullest, why even bother at all? May as well just stick with WPF and forget the phones completely, or go Android.

The problem with Android is that the same sort of tradeoffs would apply there (the same sort of access you say you need is a major security hole - it's why you generally don't have such access outside the company intranet - even via VPN).

[FloatingFatMan]

This would be intranet only.

[PGHammer]

This would be intranet only.

Change the API (Win32 - not WinRT). As much as I can see your point, WinRT is too limiting an API for what you want to do.

[ThePitt]

People sit there and often need to have multiple applications open for their work. We don't all sit there playing angry birds and using fart apps ;)

Come on... Multitasking is so windows 7 or XP. Multitasking is so passe. Welcome to 8, the retarded era where they force you to be an unproductive idiot who uses the computer to check mails and browse facebook.

[DrakeN2k]

What happened to alt tab and pining apps

[Hum]

Good -- since Windows 8 was not made for me, I don't need to buy it. :p

[FloatingFatMan]

What happened to alt tab and pining apps

Absolutely nothing at all happened to them. They're still there, just as they always were.

Come on... Multitasking is so windows 7 or XP. Multitasking is so passe. Welcome to 8, the retarded era where they force you to be an unproductive idiot who uses the computer to check mails and browse facebook.

Curious.. I'm currently running some full screen video on my left screen, and on the right I'm chatting on both mIRC and MSN, browsing the web, replying to your post, on and I have a couple of timers running as I'm cooking dinner.

Pretty sure that's multitasking...

[Orange Battery]

So basically if you don't like Windows 8 then you are not a valued customer to Microsoft? What a joke.

Before most people buy a PC they will seek advice from the resident techie in their office and if those guys don't like it then it carries a ripple effect. If anyone other than Microsoft's paid thread posters has added this then your holding the human race back.

Win 8 is not something I like, I wont recommend it but I at the same time I will not advise others against its use.

[+Warwagon MVC]

Well if a lot of the stuff that use to be accessible is now accessed via keyboard shortcuts then it also wasn't made for the average user.

[cazmillon]

it's the hip thing to do now-a-days... hate all that's new, while secretly using it.

That's if you can install it in the first place. I have a year old laptop which I use for programming and the OS just stalls at preparing devices. The fast boot of windows 8 means you cant access the F2 or F8 and so it took me a little time to get back into my other OS. I had the same trouble with the preview version but I did manage to install the beta (although I couldn't warm boot). So the retail version of windows 8 is a no-go area for me until it supports more devices or my laptop gets a little older.

I've installed it on my media centre laptop instead and I then spent hours trying to make the desktop user friendly. I ended up resorting to using a custom toolbar to get my start menu programs back and pinning a restart button to my taskbar. I felt a little happier after that. Next problem was right-clicking on the desktop which took forever too bring up a menu. Updating my video drivers sorted that problem. After that I calmed down and started to notice that windows 8 was a littler faster then windows 7 and had a much cleaner look. There's nothing for me in the Metro UI - it's now just has a desktop tile on it and I login using local account. I remote control this laptop so I was then a bit concerned that I could get into it the machine after a remote reboot into Metro. Sigh of relief yes I can.

My general impression is that a lot of people will welcome the phone-like experience of the new OS particularly casual users. Serious techies will not see the point of Metro and resent the fact that you can't get rid of it. For me there's no way I'm upgrading from Windows 7 and using it as my main OS, but I would be quite happy having it as a dual-boot option.

'How do I downgrade from Windows 8' will I fear be the top discussion in forums in the not too distant future.

[BajiRav]

Absolutely nothing at all happened to them. They're still there, just as they always were.

Curious.. I'm currently running some full screen video on my left screen, and on the right I'm chatting on both mIRC and MSN, browsing the web, replying to your post, on and I have a couple of timers running as I'm cooking dinner.

Pretty sure that's multitasking...

So Windows 8 has apps to cook dinner? Awesome! :p

[PGHammer]

Well if a lot of the stuff that use to be accessible is now accessed via keyboard shortcuts then it also wasn't made for the average user.

Those keyboard shortcuts have mostly been in Windows since Windows 2000 Professional, people.

So it's not like they haven't been there.

Do you really want to know why we haven't been using them?

Windows XP/Vista/7's default menu structure (not the Classic Menu in XP, but the default menu, which was also kept by Vista and 7) is so mouse-biased that we were directed to it as a habit.

If you were a Windows user before XP, you likely have found yourself using some of them and thinking "Now where do I remember that keyboard shortcut from?"

We've gone from being power users to power mousers - the keyboard has become an afterthought; even on desktops.

[trag3dy]

Those keyboard shortcuts have mostly been in Windows since Windows 2000 Professional, people.

So it's not like they haven't been there.

Do you really want to know why we haven't been using them?

Windows XP/Vista/7's default menu structure (not the Classic Menu in XP, but the default menu, which was also kept by Vista and 7) is so mouse-biased that we were directed to it as a habit.

If you were a Windows user before XP, you likely have found yourself using some of them and thinking "Now where do I remember that keyboard shortcut from?"

We've gone from being power users to power mousers - the keyboard has become an afterthought; even on desktops.

So what makes you think that people who have largely ignored the keyboard commands for the last 15 years are all of a sudden going to start using them? If they didn't know they existed before what makes you think they will know now? Unless you think Microsoft is going to provide a cheat sheet of keyboard commands for people to memorize when they purchase Windows 8 or that all the commands will flash across the screen once you first boot up win8 (lol)?

It's amusing that you think the vast majority of people who buy windows 8 will all of a sudden turn into pro keyboard shortcut users.

[cazmillon]

Lower-left corner + Right click Power user shortcut menu (Device Manager, Control Panel, Command Prompt, Power Options, etc.).

You can get everywhere from here!

[FloatingFatMan]

So Windows 8 has apps to cook dinner? Awesome! :p

Well, there ARE some recipe apps on the store! ;)

[nekkidtruth]

Then obviously you haven't been watching teenagers (or even pre-teens). While some MAY use full computers in school, what are they using elsewhere? At home? Traveling between school and home? Their hangouts? More likely than not, it's not a PC. It's smartphones. Tablets. MAYBE a slate. In almost all cases, it's something not running Windows. And why is that? It's a market that (except for Windows Phone) they don't see a Microsoft product in. And also, how many Windows Phones are there in the wild - let alone in retailers where they can be evaluated side-by-side with their counterparts running Android and iOS? (Peer promotion works at the teen and pre-teen level - it's why Microsoft and Apple have *historically* been fighting a constant war in the K-12 sector.) Guerilla marketing (which is exactly what Google is doing) is creating a whole generation of content consumers with absolutely zero loyalty to Windows (let alone Microsoft). And you expect them to swallow a UX that is not as rich as the one they have right now - strictly on your say-so? Teens aren't that stupid.

Yes - computers and Windows have existed - side by side - for more than twenty years. I want to see them exist side-by-side for another twenty-plus. However, there are operating systems (that aren't Windows) entering our *turf* (even if they have to sneak in through the back door). Windows has competition. Microsoft can't ignore Android or iOS - they are taking customers (or possible customers) right now based on price. They have to be faced - right now - before either becomes a threat to the mainstream of the Windows user base.

I agree with some portions of what you said however, there is a distinction between people who have never used a computer and have only used tablets etc, which is what you were implying originally.

You can pick any one of the children or teenagers above from your examples and put them in front of a computer. Most if not all of them wouldn't even have to ask a single question on how to use it. Which was my point. The real issue when it comes down to it is this, Microsoft is attempting to successfully ram their way into 2 markets they've been failing miserably at. Someone there obviously wasn't thinking straight and in the end, they've now broken their main bread and butter (Windows). I have no fear that Microsoft will get to wherever it's trying to get to with these things. I do however have a problem with how they're going about it.