Star Citizen - Space Combat Sim built with CryENGINE 3 (by Chris Roberts)

[Caleo Global Moderator]

This is my problem with this game atm.

 

pay a 100 to 150 dollars to get your ship... I mean WTF. people are paying hundreds of dollars for this game, why...

 

I as a regular gamer can't get these fighters ? If I just buy the game I can't get the hornet ? or I can get it, but with unreasonable restrictions like, ship permadeath while those who pay to win with hundreds of dollars get respawned at the nearest starbase with a brand new freshly painted one ? what's the deal ...

 

Either way. I love the game... I think, to little is known of the game to say that yet, or to even spend money on it. but all this money whoring and pay to win stuff is putting me off the game more and more...

No. All the ships they're selling now can be earned ingame.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

Apart from timed exclusives, every ship can be found/earned/stolen in game, and you can get insurance for your ships so if they're destroyed/hijacked you get a replacement.

 

The only reason you'd buy a ship now is if it's timed, or because you can get LTI (Free lifetime insurance) for them, otherwise just get them in game (I have my 315p with LTI, not going to bother with anything else until launch)

[HawkMan]

Apart from timed exclusives, every ship can be found/earned/stolen in game, and you can get insurance for your ships so if they're destroyed/hijacked you get a replacement.

 

The only reason you'd buy a ship now is if it's timed, or because you can get LTI (Free lifetime insurance) for them, otherwise just get them in game (I have my 315p with LTI, not going to bother with anything else until launch)

 

another word for pay to win lite...

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

It's only the ship though, don't think it covers contents, and it was only for early backers (They stopped giving it out a couple of months ago)

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

The one thing I can't respect about this game is how much they're pushing people to upsell, like some sleazy hotel chap.

 

...

 

...No.  **** off.  I bought the game, I'm not going to spend hundreds more for tiers that shouldn't even exist.

What's with the negativity? They're advertising the packages, ships and add-ons because it's a crowd-funded game. They don't have money from a publisher and the fans are happy to support the game in any way they can. This isn't a pay-to-win model. It's simply a shortcut for those that want better ships early on in the game. Everything they're selling, with the exception of two or three packages, can be earned in game. And I'm not talking about grinding your way to success. Chris Roberts, the lead designer and visionary behind Star Citizen, said that he hates the grinding aspect of MMOs. He said that Star Citizen is not an MMO and it won't have missions where you grind and grind because that's not fun.

 

Also, why shouldn't the different packages exist? If there were only a few, the universe would be pretty dull with the same ships flying past you over and over again. More ships means more variety and players like that.

 

This is my problem with this game atm.

 

pay a 100 to 150 dollars to get your ship... I mean WTF. people are paying hundreds of dollars for this game, why...

 

I as a regular gamer can't get these fighters ? If I just buy the game I can't get the hornet ? or I can get it, but with unreasonable restrictions like, ship permadeath while those who pay to win with hundreds of dollars get respawned at the nearest starbase with a brand new freshly painted one ? what's the deal ...

 

Either way. I love the game... I think, to little is known of the game to say that yet, or to even spend money on it. but all this money whoring and pay to win stuff is putting me off the game more and more...

They're mainly paying to support the game. The ship or package they receive for pledging money is simply a reward. You can get just about any package, ship or add-on that is currently available in the game when it launches. The only exception are two or three packages that are insanely expensive.

 

All ships come with insurance which can be renewed in game for a small fee (and by fee, I mean in-game currency). LTI (Lifetime Insurance) is just a small perk for early backers. The cost of renewing your ship's insurance, which by the way only covers the ship, will be minimal.

 

You should check out the site for more information. The developers have done a great job at engaging fans with regular updates on ships, lore, and new stretch goals. The more money is pledged, the more features they'll add.

 

Also, how often do developers release this kinda stuff as the game is being developed?

 

 

 

 

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/13357-Engineering-Updating-The-Hornet

 

another word for pay to win lite...

It's not pay to win, I assure you. The cost of LTI will be minimal, perhaps even insignificant.

 

See here:

Will this Insurance cost a lot?

 

Like in real-life insurance should be a relatively small part of your regular in game expenses which will also include paying landing fees, trade tariffs (if in a system with lots of infrastructure and law and order), fuel (if you don?t collect it yourself from a gas giant), buying cargo to trade, hiring help, making upgrades to your ship or even buying a whole new ship. Some of the additional policies like upgrade or cargo insurance will be rated based on risk levels. Risk level 1 being the safest systems and risk level 5 being the most dangerous system that is insurable for cargo or upgrades. Any risk level over 5 is un-insurable. A risk 3 policy for cargo will cover you for all cargo losses in a risk 3 system or below. The higher the risk level of the policy the more it will cost.  As with the base insurance this will not be crippling financially but instead be a reasonable running cost that relates to the risk / reward profile of the systems flown.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12820-Insurance-FAQ-And-Update

[spaceelf]

What's with the negativity?

You've known me how long now?

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

You've known me how long now?

I wasn't calling you negative. I was referring to the negativity in your post regarding Star Citizen.

 

I've known you as a member for years. I even still have one of our personal conversations saved from 2010 (in which you thanked me):

 

 

Anyway, Star Citizen will support Mantle: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13362-Star-Citizen-To-Include-Mantle-Support

 

For those of you that don't know what Mantle is, it's a low-level graphics API designed by AMD for their video cards. See here for more information.

[spaceelf]

I wasn't calling you negative. I was referring to the negativity in your post regarding Star Citizen.

I'm just sayin I think they went overboard, on a scale of one to bat**** crazy.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

...

Anyway, Star Citizen will support Mantle: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13362-Star-Citizen-To-Include-Mantle-Support

 

For those of you that don't know what Mantle is, it's a low-level graphics API designed by AMD for their video cards. See here for more information.

I've always missed the Glide days, I've always thought we needed more proprietary APIs when it comes to computer rendering.

Now we just need Nvidia to make their own API that doesn't work on AMD cards, and we can finally have games on a PC that are tied to your specific hardware configuration!

[spaceelf]

I've always missed the Glide days, I've always thought we needed more proprietary APIs when it comes to computer rendering.

Now we just need Nvidia to make their own API that doesn't work on AMD cards, and we can finally have games on a PC that are tied to your specific hardware configuration!

They already have NVAPI and PhysX and CUDA and other things doing just that, on the off chance you weren't being sarcastic.

 

I don't think Mantle is locked to AMD in the long term from what they've said.

[spaceelf]

I wasn't calling you negative. I was referring to the negativity in your post regarding Star Citizen.

 

I've known you as a member for years. I even still have one of our personal conversations saved from 2010 (in which you thanked me):

While we're here, I know you know me.  I guess that didn't come through as intended.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

They already have NVAPI and PhysX and CUDA and other things doing just that, on the off chance you weren't being sarcastic.

 

I don't think Mantle is locked to AMD in the long term from what they've said.

I was being extraordinarily sarcastic (Y)

It is funny to see Nvidia have a proprietary API as well, PhysX I'm ok with as it started as a special product anyway (So there's no standard API), and CUDA started before GPGPU became a big thing (So before we had stuff like OpenCL), and these days CUDA is pretty much just a base for OpenCL/DirectCompute.

Mantle isn't "locked" to AMD hardware in any technical sense, other than that to use Mantle you have to design your hardware to mimic how the AMD hardware functions (AMD have said themselves that Mantle is a wrapper around their GPU core, not a higher level thing)

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

I'm just sayin I think they went overboard, on a scale of one to bat**** crazy.

Can you blame them? They're still accepting pledges and they want to get as much money as possible. Also, the fans are very enthusiastic about the game and they show their support by buying packages, ships, and add-ons. The Star Citizen forums are filled with people that can't wait for the game to come out. Anyway, it's all optional. Nearly everything they're offering now can be earned in-game without really grinding (which is something Chris Roberts said himself).

 

I was being extraordinarily sarcastic (Y)

It is funny to see Nvidia have a proprietary API as well, PhysX I'm ok with as it started as a special product anyway (So there's no standard API), and CUDA started before GPGPU became a big thing (So before we had stuff like OpenCL), and these days CUDA is pretty much just a base for OpenCL/DirectCompute.

Mantle isn't "locked" to AMD hardware in any technical sense, other than that to use Mantle you have to design your hardware to mimic how the AMD hardware functions (AMD have said themselves that Mantle is a wrapper around their GPU core, not a higher level thing)

It'd be nice if a third party came up with something that would work well with AMD's hardware as well as NVIDIA's. Unfortunately, that will likely never happen. The main reason AMD is doing this is leverage. They can get developers to support Mantle because both next-gen consoles, Xbox One and PS4, have AMD GPUs.

[fusi0n]

looks awesome!

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

...

It'd be nice if a third party came up with something that would work well with AMD's hardware as well as NVIDIA's. Unfortunately, that will likely never happen. The main reason AMD is doing this is leverage. They can get developers to support Mantle because both next-gen consoles, Xbox One and PS4, have AMD GPUs.

We already have performant APIs that work across devices and platforms, but people have this idea in their head that OpenGL or Direct3D are "too slow" and you need a custom API tied to the hardware to get "console level performance" (720p30 woo)

The whole reason we use OpenGL/Direct3D these days is because we tried the "bare metal" APIs, they sucked.

[spaceelf]

We already have performant APIs that work across devices and platforms, but people have this idea in their head that OpenGL or Direct3D are "too slow" and you need a custom API tied to the hardware to get "console level performance" (720p30 woo)

The whole reason we use OpenGL/Direct3D these days is because we tried the "bare metal" APIs, they sucked.

The problem is not how much detail you can push, it's how much variety you can push with current APIs.  It's about a factor of ten better on consoles.

 

While Mantle may not be the answer long term, it's an answer and it's very much needed.

[psionicinversion]

We already have performant APIs that work across devices and platforms, but people have this idea in their head that OpenGL or Direct3D are "too slow" and you need a custom API tied to the hardware to get "console level performance" (720p30 woo)

The whole reason we use OpenGL/Direct3D these days is because we tried the "bare metal" APIs, they sucked.

 

Directx IS to slow, got to much overhead cus its not optimised in any way shape or form for specific hardware so it cant be utilised optimally. Obviously for the majority of devs DirectX is fine but for AAA titles that want to push the boundaries of PC gfx hardware they need to be able to leverage the most from an architecture. Maybe "bare metal" API's used to suck but with the advances of technology and the fact that DEVELOPERS went to AMD and asked for this it will be supported properly

 

Oh and on topic.... cant wait for the dogfighting addon to test out my 300i in space :d maybe 1 month to go :d

[HawkMan]

Directx IS to slow, got to much overhead cus its not optimised in any way shape or form for specific hardware so it cant be utilised optimally.

Yet no one can prove this claim...

[psionicinversion]

Yet no one can prove this claim...

 

well according to developers MS has no intention in trying to streamline it/optimise it well apparently they did a bit in dx10 but they dont seem to care. consoles on average are able to do like 20,000-30,000 draw calls per second whereas a PC at most can achieve about 5,000 but closer to 3,000 thats why they want someat better. DX serves as like a translation layer but its not optimised to achieve the most out of a specific architecture and its high level in nature slows the process down. Seeing as everything has to be translated using like a universal layer to be used on everything its bloated and slow compared to the API a console uses. Thats what there trying to bring to the PC, i doubt the performance will scale perfectly as a console because a consoles SoC is custom designed into an optimal configuration whereas on PC you got buses inbetween stuff etc yet high end PC's are technically infinately more powerful than x1 + ps4, it just needs a slimmed down streamlined highly optimised API for the gfx architecture its employed on to close the gap in performance.

[HawkMan]

I was was king for proof, non of what you wrote is it.

A lot of it is also wrong, as if it's written by someone who's heard programming terms, like high level and such, and how it generally affects stuff. But doesn't actually understand why or how or why it isn't always the case.

Like why directX being high level doesn't really affect performance, sure compared to machine code, but that's rather irrelevant anyway, as mantle is pretty much the same there. This isn't the demo scene. DX also isn't a language as such. And the whole point of DX is to help optimized and provide optimized functions, well a big part of it anyway, besides standardization.

And random claims like DX not being optimized... Just ... Ugh...

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

3k-5k calls a second ehh?

http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/8228/BatchBatchBatch.pdf

Slide 14, shows 50k+ batching calls a second in the P3 era.

Slides 17 & 18 are interesting too.

Edit: OpenGL was faster back then, but MS has done an awful lot of work on DirectX since then, I'd say they'd be on part apart from hardware specific stuff.

[spaceelf]

3k-5k calls a second ehh?

http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/8228/BatchBatchBatch.pdf

Slide 14, shows 50k+ batching calls a second in the P3 era.

Slides 17 & 18 are interesting too.

Edit: OpenGL was faster back then, but MS has done an awful lot of work on DirectX since then, I'd say they'd be on part apart from hardware specific stuff.

I can't speak for the accuracy of either, but AMD is the one claiming PC can only do 3-5k well and I tend to believe their people are smarter than I am - I'm sure you know the article I refer to but http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2011/03/16/farewell-to-directx/2

 

Not to dismiss your source entirely but its' relevance to modern tech is questionable.

 

(Admittedly I don't have any data on how DX11.1 and 11.2 change things, though they do seem like steps in the right direction.)

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

It's important to note that Cloud Imperium Games (developers of Star Citizen) partnered with AMD to make use of their Mantle API. It doesn't seem like it's going to be supported on a large scale by Crytek. Maybe it's just a matter of time because of they can modify it, then Crytek can work with AMD too. Who knows, maybe they'll use the changes made by CIG. Whatever the case may be, it's great news for users with AMD video cards (specifically, HD7K series and up).

[spaceelf]

It's important to note that Cloud Imperium Games (developers of Star Citizen) partnered with AMD to make use of their Mantle API. It doesn't seem like it's going to be supported on a large scale by Crytek. Maybe it's just a matter of time because of they can modify it, then Crytek can work with AMD too. Who knows, maybe they'll use the changes made by CIG. Whatever the case may be, it's great news for users with AMD video cards (specifically, HD7K series and up).

Yeah, I think I'll replace this pain in the ass with a Kaveri system next year.

 

Between Mantle and 8.1s new features for hybrid graphics systems I think I'll add another AMD card to it and see what happens.

 

I'd be surprised if Crytek didn't support it, considering they're probably still the only mainstream dev to release a DX11 only title.

[HawkMan]

I can't speak for the accuracy of either, but AMD is the one claiming PC can only do 3-5k well and I tend to believe their people are smarter than I am - I'm sure you know the article I refer to but http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2011/03/16/farewell-to-directx/2

 

Not to dismiss your source entirely but its' relevance to modern tech is questionable.

 

(Admittedly I don't have any data on how DX11.1 and 11.2 change things, though they do seem like steps in the right direction.)

 

I wouldn't trust AMD very well either when they are pushing a new API they claim is far superior and is used primarily to sell their solutions.