microsoft surface Like your Surface? No, you can't (or shouldn't). It's a bad dev

[+virtorio MVC]

Why is it Apple fans among all others feel the need to constantly bash every other product there is out there?

The same mentality that results in every Microsoft fanboy doing the same thing with every Apple product.

[The King of GnG]

Its not really unprecedented, there was a version of Windows NT released for ARM, also MIPS, PowerPC, etc... Microsoft wanted Windows NT to be processor independent.

It's the "app store" (yuck). The real issue here is with the "app store" (yuck). This "cloud" and remote-controlled crap is unbearable, for me. I'm conceptually allergic (deadly allergic) to everything that is remote controlled, so Windows 8 must die the harshest of the deaths from my point of view.

[ahhell]

It's the "app store" (yuck). The real issue here is with the "app store" (yuck). This "cloud" and remote-controlled crap is unbearable, for me. I'm conceptually allergic (deadly allergic) to everything that is remote controlled, so Windows 8 must die the harshest of the deaths from my point of view.

Probably the most asinine post yet. Congrats.

Here's a good example of why subscriptions to Neowin are dropping.

[HawkMan]

It's the "app store" (yuck). The real issue here is with the "app store" (yuck). This "cloud" and remote-controlled crap is unbearable, for me. I'm conceptually allergic (deadly allergic) to everything that is remote controlled, so Windows 8 must die the harshest of the deaths from my point of view.

Would you please resign your post at neowin so you don't drag down the neowin reputation with your ramblings?

[linsook]

Would you please resign your post at neowin so you don't drag down the neowin reputation with your ramblings?

Agreed. He has got to be one of the most daft members on neowin I have ever encountered in the many years i have been here. Whats worse is he is part of the neowin staff. Utterly pathetic.

[ObiWanToby]

The first problem is speed. Everything you do on the Surface takes more time than you expect. When you load an app, switch between apps, launch a Web page, go back to a previous Web page, check your email, and do pretty much anything else, you?ll find yourself waiting a half-second too long. This sounds like nothing, but when you compound that time time across every action on the Surface, the wasted half-seconds add up to an annoying trudge.

It?s not just the extra time that kills, but also how the tablet clues you in to its slowness. The surface is littered with little visual bugs that make you think the thing?s broken. When you pinch-to-zoom in on a Web page, the text first shows up looking jagged and low-res; after a small wait, it gets sharp. Every single time you go back in the browser, you?ll see the previous page grayed out; it takes a split second for it to light up.

The text during scrolling and how the Metro IE handles switching tabs and going back is annoying. It is like the surface has to reload that page. If text were sharp at all levels of zoom (including during) and the IE back and switching tab behavior were snappy, I think that'd go a long way to making this device that much better.

Having said that I generally do like my surface. I hate the slowness outlined above, and I do wish the screen were as crisp as the iPad's. There really is something to say about high resolution displays. For me, Windows RT + Apple Hardware would be a perfect combination.

[migo]

You contradicted yourself... The Surface Pro is as much a novelty device as the Surface RT, if not a hell of a lot more. The Surface Pro weighs 2lbs, it's clunkier, less battery life, etc. Sure it may be as fast as my home PC and will have no lag with the Music app or any app for that matter...but lets not forget that comes with a very special signature price tag of $1000.00. It might be cheaper or more expensive, but there is no way it will be anywhere near the price of $500.00. Which is why I find it hard to compare it to the iPad, this is no second generation Surface that succeeds the Surface RT, it sells alongside the Surface RT, but with much more at a much higher price, it's not going to be better at the same price...

I like my Surface RT, I am just awaiting software updates to improve Windows RT's performance. It's hard to place Windows RT in the market, considering it is trying to be something it is clearly not, but it will get there, slowly but surely it will.

Nope, I didn't. The Surface Pro runs all the software you already have. You can use it primarly as a desktop, with a keyboard and mouse (of your choice, including ergonomic and trackball) and aside from the screen size it's not really an issue. Then you can take it with you and use it as a tablet. It's a 2-in-1. For the first 6-12 months you won't be using the tablet features much, but for the occasional program that does what you need, it'll come in handy. After 6-12 months, when more software is available, you'll start moving more towards a 50/50 usage split, until eventually you end up using it as a tablet more. Once that happens, and you're barely relying on legacy software for anything you do, it makes sense to switch to an ARM based Surface.

Until then, if the Surface Pro battery life is a deal killer, for now the Nexus 10 and iPad 4 are both way better deals.

[MorganX]

Anyway, the lag was too much and was present everywhere. Once you use the Surface you'll notice the lag without question and it isn't any fun. I'm also very unsure why they put the full Desktop in there with everything when you can't actually install Windows applications. It only causes you to be confused and annoyed really. Like the Office update... Why do you have to go to Windows Update in "Real Windows" to get it is beyond me. There is no hint that it is actually there and to expect users to find that is just unrealistic.

I could go on, but there really is no need to. I just don't think it is a great device. It is decent as the hardware and build quality are pretty good and all that, but I just don't think it is prime time ready yet.

You may think I should use it for some random amount of time to make up my mind, but I have a life. The Surface isn't free and after using it for myself I wasn't impressed enough to drop a considerable amount of my money on it and I won't. Do what you like with your time and money; I could care less.

Actually, I had no performance problems until the last round of updates. Now everything is slow and laggy. I feel it is a bit too heavy but that's not a showstopper. The lack of ability to sync music/playlists/movies/files is a bigger issue with me. No Zune or even Windows Media player for media management is a total dud from a consumer appeal standpoint.

Office 2013 is great on it though, so as a laptop replacement and an RDP client it is fantastic. iPad killer ... the software isn't there for that, and doesn't look like MS has any intention of addressing that.

Still, I would consider it for the price for a laptop replacement and RDP client.

There's absolutely no reason why you need a physical keyboard for the Surface. It's just a nice option to have if you want to do more than just watch a movie or play Angry Birds but the tablet works perfectly well without it.

Unless you want to use the full Office 2013 that comes bundled with it.

[Growled Member]

iPad killer ... the software isn't there for that, and doesn't look like MS has any intention of addressing that.

I sort of thought before the Surface came out that maybe Microsoft had a small chance to pull off a miracle. Now, no way. Not even close.

[ncoday]

I thought that Surface/8 was being pushed as a consumer Device/OS.. Is the iPad not a Consumer product? I fail to see the difference in demographics.. I mean.. from my view 8, especially on a tablet is not a business / professional oriented OS.. iOS isn't either.. I think they are both in the same market demographic..

Saying the iPad and Surface are targeted at the same audience because they are "consumer devices" is like saying the BMW 7 series and the Chevy Colorado pickup are targeted at the same audience because they are 4-wheeled vehicles.

iPad - Consumer of content {Videos/Music/Pictures} and playing games. Apple is trying hard to get into the same target audience as the Surface, but not quite yet there because the environment is so closed.

Surface - Productivity {Includes full version of Office 2013 Home & Student} and creation. It comes bundled with a keyboard.

[MorganX]

Saying the iPad and Surface are targeted at the same audience because they are "consumer devices" is like saying the BMW 7 series and the Chevy Colorado pickup are targeted at the same audience because they are 4-wheeled vehicles.

iPad - Consumer of content {Videos/Music/Pictures} and playing games. Apple is trying hard to get into the same target audience as the Surface, but not quite yet there because the environment is so closed.

Surface - Productivity {Includes full version of Office 2013 Home & Student} and creation. It comes bundled with a keyboard.

If the Surface is intended to sell to the tablet buying consumer market, it is the same audience as the iPad. The Surface most definitely is suffering from and identity crisis. Microsoft's Surface ads have gone from soccer mom and daughter with Fresh Paint as the big Surface seller, to the click keyboard. Just the click keyboard, whole commercials about, to now, productivity. It is much better at productivity without a doubt, and the inclusion of Office means it is aimed at productivity and the enterprise. The commercials say it is also aimed at the iPad market.

This is MS' choice. Of course, Microsoft is in a position with the dual personality to say they never intended it to be a consumer device and compete with the iPad. Nice way to hedge bets.

[airedwin]

Ya. His major gripe is that the Surface is slow. Therefore iPad is better. Lol. The touch/type keyboard isn't revolutionary. (Even though Apple and others are making and want one for the iPad). Reading the comments from other users in his article gives me hope that not everyone in the world is an idiot. He wrote an article about how the iPad mini makes Tim Cook's Apple better than Steve Job's apple. WHAT!?!?!? "The new iPad mini reveals that Tim Cook?s Apple is a better company than the one Steve Jobs left behind". L.O.L.

[briangw]

This is the reason why I don't buy into "professional reviews." I value reading customer reviews more so since you can always tell if a device is crap if the majority complains about the same things. I can't believe people get paid for writing stuff like this. I wonder if other companies like Apple, Google (and in the reverse, MS) are reversing the trend by paying these people to write negative reviews. lol

[airedwin]

This is the reason why I don't buy into "professional reviews." I value reading customer reviews more so since you can always tell if a device is crap if the majority complains about the same things. I can't believe people get paid for writing stuff like this. I wonder if other companies like Apple, Google (and in the reverse, MS) are reversing the trend by paying these people to write negative reviews. lol

I have a feeling this is true. I have looked at reviews from The Verge, and other sites, and their scoring system is so broken.

[Colin McGregor]

people are bitching about a purpose lag. These will be the same kids crying if they remove that lag and the slightest bump made the orientation change on them constantly.

[Teebor]

It's the "app store" (yuck). The real issue here is with the "app store" (yuck). This "cloud" and remote-controlled crap is unbearable, for me. I'm conceptually allergic (deadly allergic) to everything that is remote controlled, so Windows 8 must die the harshest of the deaths from my point of view.

He says whilst getting off the sofa to turn over the tv to another channel

[Kyang]

I'm not against change, so stop being presumptuous. Not liking a device isn't indicative of my desire to deal with change. If anything, I feel Windows 8 is great on a tablet, so I'm not sure where you get this bias from.

Anyway, the lag was too much and was present everywhere. Once you use the Surface you'll notice the lag without question and it isn't any fun. I'm also very unsure why they put the full Desktop in there with everything when you can't actually install Windows applications. It only causes you to be confused and annoyed really. Like the Office update... Why do you have to go to Windows Update in "Real Windows" to get it is beyond me. There is no hint that it is actually there and to expect users to find that is just unrealistic.

I could go on, but there really is no need to. I just don't think it is a great device. It is decent as the hardware and build quality are pretty good and all that, but I just don't think it is prime time ready yet.

You may think I should use it for some random amount of time to make up my mind, but I have a life. The Surface isn't free and after using it for myself I wasn't impressed enough to drop a considerable amount of my money on it and I won't. Do what you like with your time and money; I could care less.

I tried a Surface RT at one of the kiosks Microsoft set up, and "without question", I didn't experience one bit of lag. What things did you try to do with it? I tried out Office RT, browsed the internet a bit, tried out a few apps, tested the Touch and Type covers, and was even allowed to hold an untethered unit to test the strength of the much advertised magnetic lock on their covers. It's definitely as strong as claimed.

Also, I agree with you on Office. I think it would have been better as a Metro app, rather than a separate thing on the desktop. As others have said, it's probably because they didn't have enough time to develop everything needed to make it work.

[migo]

I just tried the Surface with touch cover, and as many people have said, the keyboard is terrible. There's no feedback, so no sense of how hard you have to tap (really light taps don't register), which means you have to start hitting the keys quite hard. it still doesn't catch everything. Probably the worst keyboard I've used in ages.

That said, the trackpad is probably the most responsive and accurate one I've used, so with any luck that would remain constant with the type cover, as having a proper physical keyboard would solve the issues the touch cover had. I find it odd that that's not what Microsoft is pushing, or having available in demos. You'd think they'd want to show what actually works, and shows the product in a good light.

I also tried flipping it upside down and using the kickstand as a stand for a lower angle. It kept closing, which was disappointing. That's an angle a lot of people use their iPad + smart cover with. I know it wasn't designed to do that, but that's really something MS should have considered as well (perhaps a second kickstand at the top that's smaller? That would have actually allowed it to be rested at a slightly raised angle to use the on screen keyboard with both hands, even with it on your lap.

And again, Metro really highlights the importance of screen resolution. 1366x768 would be fine for a 7" Surface, but for a 10", 1080P would be a minimum, so the aliasing isn't visible.

It also highlighted how incomplete Metro is. I didn't experience that much trouble beta testing it, aside from stability issues, but I only had a 1280x800 resolution, so I couldn't use the side-by-side mode. On the Surface I discovered that most apps were terribly limited, and it would only work by swapping them from 20% to 80% mode, but if I'm going to be doing that, I might as well just alternate between apps, and for that the PlayBook UI is better.

[MorganX]

I just tried the Surface with touch cover, and as many people have said, the keyboard is terrible. There's no feedback, so no sense of how hard you have to tap (really light taps don't register), which means you have to start hitting the keys quite hard. it still doesn't catch everything. Probably the worst keyboard I've used in ages.

I find it acceptable for what it is. Of course, I new that for a flat touch keyboard there would be no feedback and so should everyone else. How can you complain about that. It is what it is and that's not hidden. Having said that, I like it so much more than a laptop, I will be buying the type cover. Sounds like that's what you should have gotten as well.

[migo]

Microsoft made claims that it would be really good, that was not the case. If they couldn't get it to work, they shouldn't have bothered at all.

I didn't buy anything, I was just trying display models.

[farmeunit]

Works fine for me. If you typing a novel, use a regular keyboard. For an intermediate between on-screen and real keyboard, I think it's fine.

[jakem1]

Works fine for me. If you typing a novel, use a regular keyboard. For an intermediate between on-screen and real keyboard, I think it's fine.

Agreed. You'll be disappointed if you expect it to work as well as a desktop keyboard but it's far better than a software keyboard and is pretty damned good considering that it is on a 3mm thick cover. It perfect when you need to type out more than just a quick note and less than an essay (for instance, a long email).

[Yogurtmaster]

I only have a desktop computer that I put together myself before I got laid off. The good news is that I only owe $75 after spending about $1700 earlier this year.

I do want a mobile computer (made the desktop for virtual machines and testing) wanted something more reliable than an integrated portable.

Because of the business I am going into, I will need something portable and I thinking of going Surface Pro with the Type keyboard. Most people who wanted a surface, wanted to buy the Surface Pro with the Type Keyboard. Going to get the 120 Gigabyte Surface Pro + Type Keyboard. I know it's expensive but it's worth it.

[Josh_LosAltosHills]

ive enjoyed my surface. I can check mail, browse, play some games watch netflix and hbo go. things I did on my ipad. whats the problem.

[HawkMan]

Microsoft made claims that it would be really good, that was not the case. If they couldn't get it to work, they shouldn't have bothered at all.

I didn't buy anything, I was just trying display models.

how is it not good, how does it not work ? oh you're just making things up.