Neowin's 'Club Orange' - a dying breed?


Recommended Posts

For me, I didn't subscribe because - while the perks were viewable - I tend to have the mentality that you can't miss what you never had.

When I won my subscription back in June (thanks again to Whitebread for that!) it was as good as game over for me, I would renew my subscription. But before I got the chance, I was contacted about the position of moderator.

Thinking back, I've tried subscribing a couple of times. Sadly the only option (other than writing a cheque) was PayPal, and while I have tried to use PayPal I don't have a credit card, effectively closing down that route.

Reading through this thread I notice that several users are criticising the mods and their moderation choices. I can understand the frustration of your post being edited/removed, but as you are aware there is a process that we follow. No one moderator (including supervisors and admins) make a decision without discussing it in our personal forum. We give our input in the decision, and a decision can be overruled. However, there are rules that you agree to when signing up to Neowin, and if your post violates those rules we take action. This is not to say that you can't contact a moderator and make an appeal.

I'm on my phone right now so it isn't easy to read back through the thread, but I know that someone on the team has already said that you can PM them if you think a decision was unjust, and I echo that invitation, as should every staff member.

It makes me sad to learn that some users would not subscribe because they think the moderators are unfair and moderate posts based on their personal opinions. This is not the case, and I urge anyone who thinks that to let myself or another member of staff know via PM if they have a problem with a decision that we make. We're not bad people, we're not robots, and we are happy to listen to your suggestions or problems if you want to help us make a difference to our (yours, mine, everyone here) community.

Now if you'll excuse me, writing that on my phone has taken it out of me. :)

  • Like 2

I have been wanting to Sub but, I get only so much a month. Maybe I'll go and check it out and if it's reasonable and nothing else comes up, I'll shoot for it. Been here since the day's of XP and hell I remember when ChaNinja, B0se, KoL would be regular posters. I've had my share of warnings, deleted posts etc. Except banishment. The rules have changed a bit since I registered, It's pretty much the standard with any online forum. Bigger it gets the more rules their will be placed and priors updated...I haven't really seen too many sub badges though, not like I used to see...(Pre-Bush era)

i'll say this much. When it comes to contacting a mod or reporting a post. If one mod doesn't get to it another will...I feel they are prompt in dealing with things and use their best judgement (even if you don't agree) Neowin has an open door policy with members. Been that way since the beginning I'm sure. Would they agree and work out some kind of deal? not sure it's a toss up. If the staff feel it's not up for discussion. Leave it alone. It's not easy doing what they do with numerous topics/posts being created daily....I am speaking of experience. I was a mod during TPCC, Admin of my own board TCCW (both wrestling) one closed and I let mine go bc of internet issues and working all the time. Things just tend to get really nuts...I do agree the front page new reports have been lacking some, idk if it's just me? maybe years ago their was all kinds of really exciting good news posts..today not so much few and far between. Some of them I do like to read even the ones most don't care for and are crap....Then if something goes wrong in comments it turns into civil war (I REALLY enjoy reading those)<--- okay I admit, I'm just wierd.

  • Like 2

Eh, I've been a paid subscriber once, and won subscriber status once, but I'm probably not going to do it again. I don't mind helping out, but I just don't use Neowin all that much these days. Just when I'm bored at work. Plus the news section has gone for the dumpster, poor forum moderation, and too many annoying trolls on the board don't really make it worth it to me. I don't want to sound ungrateful for the service provided, but it's just not the same site I subscribed to years ago.

This is not to say that you can't contact a moderator and make an appeal.

I say this is not true though. I got a baseless warning the other day, replied to the PM from the moderator, and was ignored. Of course, I'd have to care about my warning level to pursue it anymore. Hell, I don't even know where to see what my warning level is at the moment, but I've only gotten probably 2 or 3 warnings in my 10+ years here, so I'm not too worried they are going to add up to anything that matters.

  • Like 1

I had been thinking of subbing, but when you get ridiculed, bashed and demeaned over posts you make and staff not doing anything over it. I decided not to. This site and the staff used to be great. Once Upon A Time. Now, it's full of trolls/bullies. I can spend my money on other things.

  • Like 3

Too many trolls as of lately. Threads that get out of hand and nothing is done about it. Threads and articles seem to only get worse over the years, with more biased attitudes and such rising through out them.

Everything is just not as good as it used to be. There are less tech topics showing up, less tech discussions, and more just berating each other. Political and religoius topics are raging through the minispy, with less and less actual "meaningful" topics that help us understand the world, the science, and other things that had initially drawn me in.

Also, I've got more of a life than I had in previous years, and just spend my time here during the lull hours of work. And the time I am here, honestly, I'm enjoying myself and others less and less.... as can probably be seen in the change of my sig and such :p

Eh, I've been a paid subscriber once, and won subscriber status once, but I'm probably not going to do it again. I don't mind helping out, but I just don't use Neowin all that much these days. Just when I'm bored at work. Plus the news section has gone for the dumpster, poor forum moderation, and too many annoying trolls on the board don't really make it worth it to me. I don't want to sound ungrateful for the service provided, but it's just not the same site I subscribed to years ago.

I say this is not true though. I got a baseless warning the other day, replied to the PM from the moderator, and was ignored. Of course, I'd have to care about my warning level to pursue it anymore. Hell, I don't even know where to see what my warning level is at the moment, but I've only gotten probably 2 or 3 warnings in my 10+ years here, so I'm not too worried they are going to add up to anything that matters.

Sorry for quoting the whole thing, my phone isn't playing nice...

I'll make it short and sweet: contact me via PM. This is an open message to everyone. You say that you PM'ed a mod and they didnt get back to you; that is wrong. Simple as.

I stand by what I have said (ref: written), we are accountable for our actions, and if something seems unjust then you should let us know. If you think a mod is abusing his or her role then you should let us know.

I never leave a PM unanswered, regardless of my status on Neowin. If anyone has a problem, PM me and I guarantee a response within 24 hours (randomness and what not aside) so that you guys have a solid line for your voice.

I love this community, hands down. Personally I am proud to consider myself a member, and I use it as a source in day to day conversation. As I said, it makes me sad to think that people are disappearing because of moderation. Once again, PM me and I will get back to you, no exceptions.

I had been thinking of subbing, but when you get ridiculed, bashed and demeaned over posts you make and staff not doing anything over it. I decided not to. This site and the staff used to be great. Once Upon A Time. Now, it's full of trolls/bullies. I can spend my money on other things.

Best thing you can do is stay the hell out of the domestic politics forum. Seriously. Neowin is a much friendlier place outside of there.

Best thing you can do is stay the hell out of the domestic politics forum. Seriously. Neowin is a much friendlier place outside of there.

This..., I prefer to stay out of politics cuz most of it's BS anyways....

Best thing you can do is stay the hell out of the domestic politics forum. Seriously. Neowin is a much friendlier place outside of there.

Now that's a crock. Neowin hasn't been friendly in a very long time. I post in the help sections and I get demeaned. Now that I see how Neowin works, I will give out what I have gotten.

As much as I admire what you're trying to say Intrinsica, not all staff members seem to be as fair as you. If you want to look for something telling, a thread was started with something like "Are you happy about your iPad being obsolete". When the same kind of thread was started about the Surface, it was closed almost immediately. There's a very obvious pro Microsoft bias here. Not all staff buy into it by any means, but a lot do. And a lot of reports that I make of trolling in threads about Google stuff do get completely ignored.

  • Like 4

As much as I admire what you're trying to say Intrinsica, not all staff members seem to be as fair as you. If you want to look for something telling, a thread was started with something like "Are you happy about your iPad being obsolete". When the same kind of thread was started about the Surface, it was closed almost immediately. There's a very obvious pro Microsoft bias here. Not all staff buy into it by any means, but a lot do. And a lot of reports that I make of trolling in threads about Google stuff do get completely ignored.

I agree with you about that Javik.

This..., I prefer to stay out of politics cuz most of it's BS anyways....

That's an area I have never visited and never intend to

That's an area I have never visited and never intend to

Smart boy.

Unfortunately I'm way too interested and enthusiastic about politics and generally care about conversing and reading about US politics, which a forum with lots of US members is ideal for.

Problem is, I also get easily annoyed by bad habits, lack of respect and other unfavorable traits very common in that area of Neowin, so I'm always torn/hesitant or angry. :laugh:

Glassed Silver:mac

I subscribe so I don't have to deal with ads, and I guess I don't mind contributing a tiny fraction of my worth to a website I like to browse. The bonus forums are a perk but I don't really do much in them. :0

I subscribe because I have gotten so much from this site over the years and like to give something back. I don't post too often, but I spend probably 90% of my time online (which is a lot) here and when I do post, I try to only post something helpful pertaining to the topic. I'm currently on my 4th year of subscribing and don't plan on stopping soon :)

Blue badge ftw :D

I've got to agree with that one!

Edit: I need to get my sig badge working properly again...

I have been a member for ten years now. And I have been a subscriber a few years back. Maybe it's nostalgia, but I remember the old Neowin as a much friendlier place. I used to love Neowin. Then there were a lot of tech geeks sharing desktops and lots of tech information. The Mac and Linux sections were more prominent en better moderated and kept up to date.

Yes I know, the name of this place is neo*Win*.

But Linux news has almost completely fallen by the side and there are trolls abound in the Linux section of the forum. Then there is, IMHO, the complete overexposure on the front page of everything Microsoft. Taken to the absurd height that I am told that a new packaging of Microsoft Office, not the release of the software itself, but the leaking of the image of the package, is news worthy of a write up on the Neowin front page.

Btw I use Windows 7 and have bought Windows 8. I do not dislike Microsoft or Windows but with the attitude of this site the last few years, boy, its tempting!

I still follow the tech news, in that Chris Pirillo is a great source, but I visit Neowin just a few times a week now. I have no hope of things getting better. It's not my site and its up to the owners what they want to do with it. It just means Neowin will lose me more and more as a regular visitor.

  • Like 1

As much as I admire what you're trying to say Intrinsica, not all staff members seem to be as fair as you. If you want to look for something telling, a thread was started with something like "Are you happy about your iPad being obsolete". When the same kind of thread was started about the Surface, it was closed almost immediately. There's a very obvious pro Microsoft bias here. Not all staff buy into it by any means, but a lot do. And a lot of reports that I make of trolling in threads about Google stuff do get completely ignored.

I'm going to call bull **** on this. Check out ANY MS thread and it's full of pointless and blatant trolling. NOTHING is ever done about it. Don't even get me started on John and his "articles".

If threads are going to moderated, it needs to happen evenly across the board.

  • Like 2

As much as I admire what you're trying to say Intrinsica, not all staff members seem to be as fair as you. If you want to look for something telling, a thread was started with something like "Are you happy about your iPad being obsolete". When the same kind of thread was started about the Surface, it was closed almost immediately. There's a very obvious pro Microsoft bias here. Not all staff buy into it by any means, but a lot do. And a lot of reports that I make of trolling in threads about Google stuff do get completely ignored.

I agree with the sentiment but not the example. That thread was intended as troll bait >.> There is something of a pro-Microsoft moderation policy here, but it's greatly increased by the amount of hardcore trolling against Microsoft here.. /shrug

(To preface the following, a forum is 99% about it's community. If the community is a pain in the arse, the forum is not going to be a fun place to be >.> So yeah, I'm railing against the community as much as the moderation direction.)

Honestly, I am just sick of all the people calling out Windows 8 (and I don't think I am alone..). Everyone who uses it knows that they not everyone loves it, but I'm ****ing sick of people coming and telling us AGAIN how much you hate it.

It's gotten to the point of narcissism. There's a member on here who has a user tag like: "Windows 8 (With start 8 OTHERWISE UNUSABLE)". There's a half dozen members who have said things like "We need to keep pointing out how **** it is otherwise Microsoft will think it's ok". It's like they think this forum is Microsoft's user feedback forum.. There are other members running from thread to thread saying the same thing repeatedly and not engaging in a discussion; but instead continuing to fire off cliches with little interest in discussing it and a lot of interest in just getting their **** out there.

I originally came to Neowin after cracking the ****s with another tech forum because their journalists had lost the plot. I stayed because I found intelligent people with different opinions who could justify them with something other than "**** YOU MICROSOFT BOY". Unfortunately this isn't the case anymore. The people interested in serious debate have been driven away by the stupidity on the forums (or occasionally dragged into it) and the moderators have all responded differently with differing and inconsistent reactions.

Whilst there are a collection of decent and dedicated mods, there have been numerous occurrences where in their actions have been markedly inconsistent or disingenuous. This is compounded by a self review system that is markedly against the posters appealing moderation actions (by way of mods all (ha) being friends or the global mods being busy/uncaring about the request/query).

These are issues I raised a number of times and got nowhere with. After a particularly pointed statement by my oh so subtle self, someone asked if I hated the place why I didn't just leave. I subbed about 5 minutes later :\ I subbed to support the site and to make my position on my support known.

I want a "home" where I can talk to like minded people about technical and interesting things. I want to learn from other peoples opinions and experiences and I want somewhere I can ask questions and get serious feedback. Neowin isn't really that place anymore, but at the moment I blame Windows 8 (and the members who can't pull their heads out of their asses) and hope that in a couple of months things will sort themselves out.

Would I sub again? Perhaps, but only to support Neobond and the site. All I really gain from my subscription is the ability to edit my posts for an extended time after posting (I tend to clean up my posts after posting).

I just hope Neowin (the community that is) comes around and gets back to what it was before the retards gained a divisive target to call out with their loud and repetitive voices :\

In b4 someone calls me pro8.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Posts

    • And the fact that the majority of people from Poland are white European Christians while the people you are complaining about in post after post are not is just a coincidence... Every sentence in your post I am replying to is racist nonsense. None of it is actually based on any facts whatsoever. They are seeking a better life too. They are working and contributing to the economy too, as you even admit. They get the same benefits your partner did AND that YOU are eligible for as well. That is the definition of a society where everyone is given a chance, treated equally and fairly, and is judged by the content of their character, not their different skin color or which version of ignorant superstitious nonsense their parents lied about as children. Racists said the same things about the Irish and Jews and Poles (like your partner) and...every other immigrant movement over the centuries. What's your family's heritage, by the way? Were your ancestors lied about with racist fearmongering crapola by self-entitled locals the same way as you are now? If someone like that said the same things about all people from Poland, like your partner, would they be right? Or would you want them to judge your partner based on who they actually were, not where they just happened to come from?
    • Again, this is an irrelevant attempt to attack the messenger. The truth does not require any justification.
    • Removed the blue and underline as you did not post a link. This would also  be considered spamming.
    • Why it's almost impossible to produce a smartphone in the United States by Hamid Ganji If you look at the back of some Apple products, you can see the famous phrase “Designed by Apple in California, Assembled in China.” This phrase appears on products from one of the largest smartphone brands in the United States. These products are designed in the U.S., but their manufacturing takes place in China, India, Vietnam, or even Brazil. But why can’t Apple, as one of the largest American tech companies, produce its iPhones on U.S. soil? The idea for this topic came to me after the Trump Foundation launched a smartphone called the T1 and claimed that it was designed and built with American values in mind. However, this claim did not last long, as it was revealed that Trump’s phone was actually a rebranded HTC U24 Pro, with only a gold case and minor internal component changes. You see? Even a phone that is supposed to represent American values is manufactured in China. With a gross domestic product (GDP) exceeding $32 trillion, the United States is currently the world’s largest economy, while China ranks second with around $20 trillion. On the other hand, the United States is by a wide margin the global leader in various technological fields, and American companies spend hundreds of billions of dollars annually on research and development. From Apple and Google to Microsoft, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and others, American tech and industrial giants lead their foreign competitors in many sectors. The United States also has no shortage of smartphone brands. Apple, Google, and Motorola are among the major brands in the smartphone market, collectively holding a significant share. However, the vast majority of their products are manufactured outside the United States. So why is it that the world’s largest economy, home to the most advanced technology companies and industrial powers, cannot produce a smartphone on its own soil? Let’s explore this question together. Even threats to impose tariffs won’t work After Trump entered the White House as the 47th President of the United States, his administration adopted strict tariff policies. One of these policies was the imposition of a 25% tariff on smartphones manufactured outside the United States. Trump said he “had a little problem” with Apple CEO Tim Cook over producing smartphones outside the U.S. So he thought that threatening a 25% tax on imported phones might force Apple to bring manufacturing back to the United States. “I have long ago informed Tim Cook of Apple that I expect their iPhones that will be sold in the United States of America will be manufactured and built in the United States, not India, or anyplace else,” Trump wrote on Truth Social. Image via The White House Although Apple currently manufactures some of the iPhone’s chips in the United States with TSMC's help, it still shows no willingness to shift full iPhone production to the country. At the time, renowned Apple supply chain analyst Ming-Chi Kuo wrote on X, “In terms of profitability, it’s way better for Apple to take the hit of a 25% tariff on iPhones sold in the US market than to move iPhone assembly lines back to the US.” However, manufacturing a smartphone in the United States is not as easy as it might seem, and many technical and economic barriers are involved. The lack of necessary manufacturing hubs There is a clear reason why many companies prefer to manufacture their products in China. China has established itself as the main global manufacturing hub for international companies, and over the past few decades, large contract manufacturers have emerged there, allowing companies like Apple to outsource production. One such example is Foxconn, which also manufactures some Apple products in India. Building the infrastructure required to produce smartphones in the United States would require tens of billions of dollars in new investment. Factories would need to be built, essential manufacturing equipment would have to be installed, and, most importantly, a skilled workforce capable of operating these systems would need to be recruited and trained. The United States currently lacks the core infrastructure needed to manufacture smartphones, and for this reason, many companies prefer to outsource production to Chinese contractors rather than spend tens of billions of dollars to build that infrastructure, which is significantly more economically efficient. Additionally, building such infrastructure in the United States could take up to a decade, ultimately leading to a significant increase in the product's final price for consumers. Shortage of trained labor in the U.S. compared to China Decades of serving as a global manufacturing hub have allowed China to build a massive talent pool in the production sector that is almost unmatched worldwide. Today, if a company chooses to manufacture its products in China, it can be confident that the workers involved in production have years of experience in their respective roles and are capable of producing high-quality goods with minimal errors. Even if we assume that tens of billions of dollars were invested in building smartphone manufacturing infrastructure in the United States, finding skilled workers would remain highly challenging. Apple CEO Tim Cook visiting the iPhone 6 assembly line in China in 2014. Image: Tim Cook on X In a 2015 interview on CBS’s 60 Minutes, Tim Cook said the main reason Apple isn’t producing in the US is a lack of skills. "China put an enormous focus on manufacturing, in what you and I would call vocational kind of skills. The US over time began to stop having as many vocational kinds of skills. I mean you could take every tool and die maker in the United States and probably put them in the room that we're currently sitting in. In China you would have to have multiple football fields,” Cook said. Also, in 2017, at the Fortune Global Forum in Guangzhou, Cook once again emphasized the importance of highly skilled Chinese workers. “China has moved into very advanced manufacturing, so you find in China the intersection of craftsman kind of skill, and sophisticated robotics and the computer science world. That intersection, which is very rare to find anywhere, that kind of skill, is very important to our business because of the precision and quality level that we like. The thing that most people focus on if they’re a foreigner coming to China is the size of the market, and obviously, it’s the biggest market in the world in so many areas. But for us, the number one attraction is the quality of the people,” Apple CEO said. Higher labor costs in the United States Producing almost any product in the United States is more expensive than in many other countries, and one of the main reasons is the higher cost of labor in the U.S. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, median weekly earnings of full-time workers in the United States were $1,235 in the first quarter of 2026. Meanwhile, the average annual salary in China's private sector in 2025 was RMB 71,590 (US$9,961). In many parts of the world, the weekly wage of an American worker is equivalent to several months of income. Another important factor to consider is that in the United States, the workforce capable of working on a smartphone assembly line is highly specialized and therefore commands higher-than-average wages. According to an estimate by Bank of America, producing an iPhone in the U.S. is technically possible, but “iPhone cost can increase 25% purely on higher labor cost in the U.S.” However, this 25% increase applies only if final assembly is performed in the United States while components are still sourced from China or elsewhere. In this case, the price of a base iPhone would rise from $799 to around $1,000. But in another scenario, if Apple were to produce the required components for the iPhone within the United States, production costs could increase by more than 90%. Trump’s dream for a “Made in the USA” iPhone might never come true In a free-market capitalist economy, one of the primary responsibilities of any CEO is to maximize profit. Using Apple as an example, Tim Cook’s role is to maximize the company’s profits so that it can fund research and development for new products and invest in areas such as artificial intelligence, while also keeping shareholders satisfied. Therefore, it is entirely understandable that Apple would choose not to bring its manufacturing back to the United States and instead keep production in countries where labor is cheaper, and products can be manufactured at a lower cost, thereby maximizing its profit margins. What is your opinion about manufacturing smartphones in the United States? If you are an American citizen, would you be willing to pay hundreds of dollars more for a smartphone made domestically in the USA? Let us know in the comments.
  • Recent Achievements

    • Conversation Starter
      jessse3334 earned a badge
      Conversation Starter
    • Reacting Well
      JuvenileDelinquent earned a badge
      Reacting Well
    • One Month Later
      Excellence2025 earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Excellence2025 earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Week One Done
      flexorcist earned a badge
      Week One Done
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      506
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      196
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      153
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      72
    5. 5
      FloatingFatMan
      65
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!