What I hate about Windows 8 (not start menu related)

[Andrea Borman]

Okay Intrinsica I will. Back on topic,I have got Windows 8 Pro upgrade install version because it was all I could get. They are not selling Windows 8 as a full install version. My plan is to do an upgrade install from Windows 7.But I will of course install Classic Shell or Start Menu 7 to get the Windows 7 start menu. because I cannot manage with just the Metro start menu.

I like a lot of people find the Metro start menu inadequate for my needs. So I need the traditional Windows start menu. As long as Classic Shell or the other start menu software works on Windows 8 Pro I will keep it. But if not then I will uninstall it and go back to Windows 7.

[Wakers]

Andrea, the version of Windows that you download is a full version. You can use it to do a clean install.

The only thing that requires an existing Windows installation is the upgrade assistant that you download the .iso through.

(let's see if that will sink in.)

[Shane Nokes]

Okay Intrinsica I will. Back on topic,I have got Windows 8 Pro upgrade install version because it was all I could get. They are not selling Windows 8 as a full install version. My plan is to do an upgrade install from Windows 7.But I will of course install Classic Shell or Start Menu 7 to get the Windows 7 start menu. because I cannot manage with just the Metro start menu.

I like a lot of people find the Metro start menu inadequate for my needs. So I need the traditional Windows start menu. As long as Classic Shell or the other start menu software works on Windows 8 Pro I will keep it. But if not then I will uninstall it and go back to Windows 7.

BTW you can just buy an OEM System builder copy if you want a full version. Those copies now have a 'Personal Use' license that is very similar to a retail license.

Also what is inadequate for your needs? The start screen has all of the same functionality of the old start menu, with even more stuff thrown in...

I keep seeing people talk about how it doesn't work...but it works just the same as before...but I digress as you actually managed to go off-topic again...and I got pulled into it.

[Shane Nokes]

Andrea, the version of Windows that you download is a full version. You can use it to do a clean install.

The only thing that requires an existing Windows installation is the upgrade assistant that you download the .iso through.

(let's see if that will sink in.)

Not true...just because there are workarounds and 'hacks' that you can use to force it to activate does not make it a full version. It is an upgrade license, and that has already been proven many times.

Trying to post otherwise doesn't make it true...it's still a fact...upgrade license, not full retail license.

Try using this tool:

http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/The-Ultimate-PID-Checker-Download-220957.html

I would be interested to see your license data (make sure to take out the key or any other sensitive data of course). I think you will find your license data and mine do not match.

Here's mine:

Product Key : [Redacted]

Profile : C:\Windows\System32\spp\tokens\pkeyconfig\pkeyconfig.xrm-ms

Validity : Valid

Product ID : [Redacted]

Advanced ID : [Redacted]

Activation ID : [Redacted]

Edition Type : ProfessionalWMC

Description : Win 8 RTM ProfessionalWMC Retail

Edition ID : X18-15509

Key Type : Retail

EULA : Retail:WAU:48;

Crypto ID : 1810

[Andrea Borman]

No I did not download Windows 8 Pro. I bought my copy of Windows 8 Pro from PC World, which is a big computer store in England. They have a chain of stores across the country and are also part of Currys. But they told me that there isn't a full version of Windows 8 only the upgrade version. But if I there was a full version I would have bought it. As it is easier and less time consuming to just do a clean install. Rather than first having to re-install Windows 7 and then upgrade to Windows 8. Which is what I will have to do if I want to install Windows 8 Pro on my Windows 8 RP netbook.

And there are some functions missing from the Metro start menu.On the Windows XP and Windows 7 start menu you can access you start menu programs folder by clicking open all user. But there is no way to do this on the Metro start menu,instead you have to know the full path in Windows Explorer. So having Classic Shell or another start menu software on Windows 8 means that we can still have the start button and Windows 7 start menu.

Yes I am a bit worried that Classic Shell and the other start menu software won't work on Windows 8 Pro.Which I have not go round to installing yet so I don't know. So I am still on Windows 8 RP. But from what I read on the web and saw on You Tube,Classic Shell does work on Windows 8 RTM. So it should work on Windows 8 Pro.

[+Warwagon MVC]

Well since I have uninstalled Internet Explorer on both Windows 7 and Windows 8 by deleting the program file. UAC has also been uninstalled. So I think that UAC is tied to IE. So when you remove IE,you also uninstall UAC. But I don't miss UAC,as it is very annoying and so is Smart Screen which I have also turned off.

[Som]

What Im having trouble with is the stupid UAC and Admin permissions

Ok so you cant turn off UAC completely because then it wont let you run metro apps.

Or even if you give admin rights to a user you still get the stupid prompts when trying to write/delete into C: Program Files

Unable to run metro apps with the built in admistrator account.

Sure i can understand for average joes MS dosent want them to have full access because of security reasons

but why is the administrator level privliges and the admin account so crippled!!!

Anyone know work arounds for these.

noticed that too , figured if you wanted to turn something off (particularly prompts) then you should be allowed to ... I've noticed a lot too that if you say you don't like something about windows 8 you usually get the reply "your doing it wrong" ... seems like a linux sentimentality...

[devHead]

Well since I have uninstalled Internet Explorer on both Windows 7 and Windows 8 by deleting the program file. UAC has also been uninstalled. So I think that UAC is tied to IE. So when you remove IE,you also uninstall UAC. But I don't miss UAC,as it is very annoying and so is Smart Screen which I have also turned off.

You know Andrea, it probably shouldn't at this point, but it never ceases to amaze me the crazy things you do with your Windows installations for no good reason whatsoever. By the by, UAC is not tied to the Internet Explorer web browser at all. Please don't post information like that which is clearly incorrect. Why would you turn off any and all means of protection on your PC? Don't worry, I'm not asking you because I expect you to answer. I don't think I've ever read one of your reply posts where you actually answer the question you were asked.

On a positive note, I notice that you no longer put your full name and the end of your posts. Since your username is your real name, and your signature again displays only your name, you likely realized that it was a bit of overkill.

However, I weep for your poor computers, netbooks, or whatever other hardware you're using at the moment. Of all computers in the world, they are quite likely the most to be pitied.

[Wakers]

Not true...just because there are workarounds and 'hacks' that you can use to force it to activate does not make it a full version. It is an upgrade license, and that has already been proven many times.

Trying to post otherwise doesn't make it true...it's still a fact...upgrade license, not full retail license.

Try using this tool:

http://www.softpedia...oad-220957.html

I would be interested to see your license data (make sure to take out the key or any other sensitive data of course). I think you will find your license data and mine do not match.

Here's mine:

Ehm - You can do a clean install with the iso without any "hacking" or workarounds at all. You simply put the iso on a disk, start it up and install it on your freshly formatted drive.

I was expecting it from Andrea, not from you.

[Shane Nokes]

Ehm - You can do a clean install with the iso without any "hacking" or workarounds at all. You simply put the iso on a disk, start it up and install it on your freshly formatted drive.

I was expecting it from Andrea, not from you.

Sorry, but no. The upgrade key is an upgrade key.

I've had this argument with many on here...and every single one of them when they actually do what I ask discover that I'm actually correct when it comes to this.

You can clean install by using the ISO to boot a system with an existing hard drive, and then installing the OS if the system already had a prior valid OS installed.

If it's a totally blank empty machine with nothing before 8 installed on it, it will install, but fail to activate unless you do some fun playing around with activation methods.

This is something where people have argued with me over and over again...and this is a case where I'm not wrong...and they end up having to admit it every time...so please don't have us go down that road like I have already at least a couple dozen times. :(

[Wakers]

Ehm, this is just not correct. I installed it on a brand new SSD without messing around with the activation method at all. The SSD had not had a previous installation of Windows. It is not an upgrade license in the way that it was for Windows 7.

[Shane Nokes]

Ehm, this is just not correct. I installed it on a brand new SSD without messing around with the activation method at all. The SSD had not had a previous installation of Windows. It is not an upgrade license in the way that it was for Windows 7.

Sorry, not biting. Already had this argument too many times, with the same result.

You can view several examples on this thread alone:

www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1115013-can-you-install-windows-8-upgrade-on-a-totally-empty-ie-new-drive/

Things like:

I just tried out what Shane has been saying here and turns out he was correct after all. My apologies.

&

Ok, so I am actually amazed, but it did indeed fail activation. In light of this I would recommend anybody doing a clean install stick to methods that work, such as installing with a different key and then changing it, or installing an older version of Windows first and then running the upgrade. I might go mess with the registry later and seeing if changing that entry will allow it to activate or not, but right now it's dinner time so I'll be back later.

&

It wont activate, I just tried it.

in that same post they later made it very clear:

The error I get when activating specifically says I can only use it for upgrading not a clean install.

That last one? It shows that the upgrade keys and FPP keys are not the same otherwise it wouldn't have been able to detect that a different key was used...

So...not going to argue this anymore...already done it...already know what is correct. Done.

[Colin McGregor]

Well at the moment I am running Windows 8 RP 32 bit on one of my netbooks that used to have Windows 7. And I just have the one account,the administrator account.But because I am running Windows 8 on a netbook, I don't have any Metro apps. So I just have the ordinary software that I run on Windows 7 and Windows XP. there are one or two software's that don't work well on Windows 8 like they do on windows 7 and the other versions of Windows.So Windows 8 looses a couple of points, but apart from that Windows 8 is very much like Windows 7 and Windows Vista.And I have got the start button and Windows 7 start menu on Windows 8 thanks to Classic Shell.

did you remember to install Windows Live Messenger 2012?

lol just when I lose hope that war will post something funny you go and bring back my faith in you

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Shane aren't you getting things mixed up? I'm pretty sure I remember you agreeing that "Clean Installs" the upgrade can do just fine, it's "Full Installs" that it can't do without the supposed registry tweak

[Shane Nokes]

Shane aren't you getting things mixed up? I'm pretty sure I remember you agreeing that "Clean Installs" the upgrade can do just fine, it's "Full Installs" that it can't do without the supposed registry tweak

I wasn't arguing that part of the post.

I was arguing the part where they state:

Andrea, the version of Windows that you download is a full version.

I was also combating the part where they state that the key given is not an upgrade key but a full version product key and behaves as such.

It's an upgrade key and while it does allow for a clean install it must pick up a prior valid OS in order to allow activation. Sure you can format and such once it picks that up, but it must pick that up first. Then you can wipe the entire drives partition table and create a whole new set of partitions and install.

A totally empty system without anything in it though? It will allow the install, but reject the activation unless you toy around with it a bit.

The wording on things can sometimes be confusing...which is why I've tried to clear up the difference in scenarios, but people still seem to get confused. :p

[Routerbad]

thats another issue i'm having on my server 2012 rig.

how can i make "run as administator" the default everytime i start an program. so many times I just double click on an application it starts but then something doesn't functions because it needs admin rights. already have account with admin rights.

and don't give me that BS why you want to run less secure rig, I know what i'm doing I know what program i'm running I won't need windows telling what I can, should run or when it should run.

haven't really ahd time to look into this yet, upgrading server 2008 r2 to 2012 just introduced so many functionality issues.

smartscreen (or what ever its called) its another annoyance.

secpol - Security Options - Automatic Administrator Approval Mode

[Wakers]

Like I said, I installed Windows 8 Pro through the upgrade assistant onto a brand new, empty, never been used SSD and it activated without any hacking or tweaking.

[xendrome]

Like I said, I installed Windows 8 Pro through the upgrade assistant onto a brand new, empty, never been used SSD and it activated without any hacking or tweaking.

How did you run the upgrade assistant, it only runs in Windows.... so... you must have installed it from within windows to a blank drive, which would be a clean install option. Not a full install from an ISO.

[Wakers]

I used the upgrade assistant on my HDD that Win 7 was installed on.

When the download finished, I installed the new SSD and booted from the DVD. It then installed straight onto the SSD and activated without any problems.

That's not really an "upgrade" so much as it is a full install - but I don't know, maybe we're getting bogged down in semantics.

[Shane Nokes]

I used the upgrade assistant on my HDD that Win 7 was installed on.

When the download finished, I installed the new SSD and booted from the DVD. It then installed straight onto the SSD and activated without any problems.

That's not really an "upgrade" so much as it is a full install - but I don't know, maybe we're getting bogged down in semantics.

Right, so a machine that had a hard drive with another OS installed. You've always been able to do that with an upgrade key...that's nothing new at all, and I even pointed that out earlier as well...which you ignored in your quest to prove me wrong. :(

The point is on a bare system, a truly bare system, that key will NOT work for activation...which is what I said.

Once again I have someone argue, once again they totally didn't listen to what I said, and once again same outcome I said would happen already. :(

[Andrea Borman]

You know Andrea, it probably shouldn't at this point, but it never ceases to amaze me the crazy things you do with your Windows installations for no good reason whatsoever. By the by, UAC is not tied to the Internet Explorer web browser at all. Please don't post information like that which is clearly incorrect. Why would you turn off any and all means of protection on your PC? Don't worry, I'm not asking you because I expect you to answer. I don't think I've ever read one of your reply posts where you actually answer the question you were asked.

On a positive note, I notice that you no longer put your full name and the end of your posts. Since your username is your real name, and your signature again displays only your name, you likely realized that it was a bit of overkill.

However, I weep for your poor computers, netbooks, or whatever other hardware you're using at the moment. Of all computers in the world, they are quite likely the most to be pitied.

Well the idea of having a signature is so that we don't have to keep signing out names at the bottom of each post.Because our name is in our signature. So if you have got your name in your signature you don't have to write it again at the bottom of your posts. The signature is a very handy feature and we should use it.

Colin Mcgregor wrote-

Did you remember to install Windows Live Messenger 2012?

No I am not using Windows Live Messenger 2011 version or 2012 version. I am holding out and staying with Windows Live Messenger 2009 version. Which I am still using.

[johnporter29]

Well the idea of having a signature is so that we don't have to keep signing out names at the bottom of each post.Because our name is in our signature. So if you have got your name in your signature you don't have to write it again at the bottom of your posts. The signature is a very handy feature and we should use it.

No I am not using Windows Live Messenger 2011 version or 2012 version. I am holding out and staying with Windows Live Messenger 2009 version. Which I am still using.

Wonder what you'll do when WLM is discontinued next year and it all moves over to Skype ;)

[Andrea Borman]

Who said Windows Live Messenger is being discontinued? Well I cannot use Skype it does not work on my netbooks. So if that happens I will just use Google Talk and Aim Messenger, which I have also got. I suppose when support for Windows XP ends in 2014, they may discontinue Windows Live Messenger 2009. But some people are still using older versions of Messenger such as Windows Live Messenger 8.5.

[Lord Method Man]

Who said Windows Live Messenger is being discontinued?

https://www.neowin.net/news/it039s-official-skype-to-replace-windows-live-messenger-in-2013

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Confirmed-Microsoft-to-Kill-Windows-Live-Messenger-Replace-It-with-Skype-305010.shtml

[Andrea Borman]

Yes I just saw that web page.Well so what? I am not using Skype. And I can still use the Windows Live Photo Gallery and Windows Live Movie Maker 2009.There is no expiry date on that. I don't use Windows Live Messenger much anyway. And I don't like Hotmail very much.There is always problems with the website.