Do you want the start menu in Windows 8?

[+Warwagon MVC]

What is your excuse about the All Apps section? I have seen readme's shortcuts to websites, and other things in there. With Windows 7, they were all neatly tucked away in folders. Some programs put it in a sub-folder labeled Additional Resources. But.....now they are always visible when I go to All Apps.

Exactly

[scaramonga]

Explained ^^^^^^^^^^^ :)

A picture tells millions of words ;)

[Dot Matrix]

They also don't look like Windows Modern Tiles, so while it's only "Exe Shortcuts" it looks like crap!

And? x86 apps can't and most likely never will have a proper Metro tile.

What is your excuse about the All Apps section? I have seen readme's shortcuts to websites, and other things in there. With Windows 7, they were all neatly tucked away in folders. Some programs put it in a sub-folder labeled Additional Resources. But.....now they are always visible when I go to All Apps.

Yes... But if you're up to date on your "power user" techniques, you'd never have to venture into All Apps to begin with. Also, not all programs have their own folders. There are many that just sit out, flapping in the wind. You could argue with that, that the All Programs Menu is less organized than All Apps in Windows 8.

[xWhiplash]

And? x86 apps can't and most likely never will have a proper Metro tile.

Yes... But if you're up to date on your "power user" techniques, you'd never have to venture into All Apps to begin with.

So....Microsoft gets a free pass then? Why even offer an All Apps section if you should never have to go there?

[+Warwagon MVC]

And? x86 apps can't and most likely never will have a proper Metro tile.

Yes... But if you're up to date on your "power user" techniques, you'd never have to venture into All Apps to begin with. Also, not all programs have their own folders. There are many that just sit out, flapping in the wind. You could argue with that, that the All Programs Menu is less organized than All Apps in Windows 8.

yes, but the ones flapping in the wind are only single shortcuts 1 per application and they are all in a straight vertical alphabetical list. Your answer just yelled "I know windows 8 might not be great in that area, but I just can't admit it., so how can I spin this to make Windows 8 sound awesome!"

[Dot Matrix]

So....Microsoft gets a free pass then? Why even offer an All Apps section if you should never have to go there?

Again, how and why is Microsoft responsible for apps that want to barf up garbage all over the OS? I fail to see how they are at fault.

[xWhiplash]

Again, how and why is Microsoft responsible for apps that want to barf up garbage all over the OS? I fail to see how they are at fault.

Hmmm....let's see here....Start Menu: Not a mess of barf'ed up garbage. Start Screen: A complete mess of barf'ed up garbage. What has changed? The developers did not suddenly become crappy as soon as Windows 8 came out. The only thing that changed was....Windows!!!

So Yes, Microsoft should have changed the way the All Apps portion worked in the Start Screen. Providing collapsable and expandable folder-like items. I would not be hard to do since the installer has been coded to build those sub folders. Microsoft is at fault for not interpreting it properly.....

[+Warwagon MVC]

Hmmm....let's see here....Start Menu: Not a mess of barf'ed up garbage. Start Screen: A complete mess of barf'ed up garbage.

HAHAHAHHA!!! OMG ...I actually laughed out loud and clapped all at the same time! Good Job!

[Dot Matrix]

Hmmm....let's see here....Start Menu: Not a mess of barf'ed up garbage. Start Screen: A complete mess of barf'ed up garbage. What has changed? The developers did not suddenly become crappy as soon as Windows 8 came out. The only thing that changed was....Windows!!!

So Yes, Microsoft should have changed the way the All Apps portion worked in the Start Screen. Providing collapsable and expandable folder-like items. I would not be hard to do since the installer has been coded to build those sub folders. Microsoft is at fault for not interpreting it properly.....

So, you say you don't have the time for a folderless Start Screen, but have all the time in the world to dig through endless folders and subfolders buried in an area 1/10th the size of your screen?

[+Warwagon MVC]

So, you say you don't have the time for a folderless Start Screen, but have all the time in the world to dig through endless folders and subfolders buried in an area 1/10th the size of your screen?

You basically just proved our point for us. Good Job! (Y) yes the start menu is easier to dig through because it's a vertical alphabetical list taking up ONLY 1/10th the screen! As opposed to the barfed up garbage taking up our ENTIRE screen!

[scaramonga]

Again, how and why is Microsoft responsible for apps that want to barf up garbage all over the OS? I fail to see how they are at fault.

Good God.

I'm outta here.......

[xWhiplash]

So, you say you don't have the time for a folderless Start Screen, but have all the time in the world to dig through endless folders and subfolders buried in an area 1/10th the size of your screen?

Yes, because I am not presented with a list of thousands of icons, and hard to read titles (when you have dozens and dozens of icons, it is sometimes hard to see the title of the section).

Despite what you might think, folders are more organized. Why do you think I have my health (and other) insurance in folders? I do not need to look for it, I find the label, and go from there.

[+Warwagon MVC]

Yes, because I am not presented with a list of thousands of icons, and hard to read titles (when you have dozens and dozens of icons, it is sometimes hard to see the title of the section).

Despite what you might think, folders are more organized. Why do you think I have my health (and other) insurance in folders? I do not need to look for it, I find the label, and go from there.

OMG, I have a great idea. Someone should take a picture of their filing cabnlet before, and then take every piece of paper out of every folder and stick it on the wall and take another picture LOL.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

Despite what you might think, folders are more organized.

Microsoft, or more specifically

our experience with folders broadly and in the Start menu tells us that folders are a way of burying things, not organizing them.

Sinfosky's also explicitly advertised this as a differentiating feature from iOS in one of their keynotes. Somehow I don't see them changing their opinion on this.

[Dot Matrix]

Folders are great for organizing files. Not so much for an app launcher. You want to enable the user to find their new app, not have them dig forever for it.

And yes, before you take whatever digs you want to next, I have spent countless times helping people find what they were looking for, because it was buried. That's not something you want.

The Start Screen is designed to only display the EXE files for an app, Help files and other junk will remain in the All Apps menu. If you have an app developed with poor coding practices, then yes, you may have one or two extra tiles, that take all but a few seconds to remove.

[spenser.d]

No, its not necessary in any way. Hell if I think about it, I don't really even use it at work on Win7 - everything I typically need it pinned. Only thing I use it for is searching, which is done even faster with the start screen.

[Zlain]

Ys, I want a start MENU. No, I do not want a start BUTTON.

[Dashel]

If you have an app developed with poor coding practices, then yes,you may have one or two extra tiles, that take all but a few seconds to remove.

Pray tell how that is accomplished from within the new All Apps menu...

Let me also understand, any app that creates more than a single app link is using poor coding practices? If discoverability is key, why are new apps shuffled to the end of the Start Screen (where I've already had to help people 'find' it as well)?

[Dot Matrix]

Pray tell how that is accomplished from within the new All Apps menu...

Let me also understand, any app that creates more than a single app link is using poor coding practices? If discoverability is key, why are new apps shuffled to the end of the Start Screen (where I've already had to help people 'find' it as well)?

Why is everyone so overly concerned with the All Apps menu? For a menu that's not supposed to be largely seen often, people here are keen to pick it apart.

You act as if users just sit there and stare at their PC hoping it will do something for them. Let me tell you, my classmates at school don't do this. Maybe your generation has trouble, but mine does not. They can pick up a device and run with it in seconds. It didn't take long for friends to become familiar with Start, and if they can do it, anyone can.

But this "Woe is me, things have changed!" crap is getting old. It's been four months since release, if you're having THAT much difficulty, then perhaps computers are not for you.

[firey]

But this "Woe is me, things have changed!" crap is getting old. It's been four months since release, if you're having THAT much difficulty, then perhaps computers are not for you.

Or perhaps not everyone likes the direction Windows 8 is taking, and should stick with 7.. like I do. Computers most definitely are for me, as I use them for a living.. but I am not willing nor wanting to get rid of the desktop as it is, and if forced to use 8 startisback would be the first thing I install.

[+Warwagon MVC]

One more thing that bugs me about windows 8 and the fact that On the desktop side of things Microsoft has gone clueless when they remove the dedicated "Computer" button. On a desktop I consider "Computer" a key section of windows. Sure you can awkwardly click the new explorer button the bottom then click the very small "Computer" name on the left hand side.

It seems the only way pro windows 8 users can defend windows 8 is by saying "Use this hot key, use that hot key, just search for it, pin your stuff to your taskbar". The average user does not know about hot keys. Most average users don't even know that control + C Copies. Most never even knew their keyboard had a windows key, most probably still don't. When you open up the new start screen how does the user know they can just start typing to find something? Does Microsoft tell them? No. How about an actual search button, oh that's right, that's hidden. What about the "All programs list"? Oh that's right that's hidden too.

I'm not sure which brain cell damaged sasquatch though it was a good idea to hide all the menu's from the user on the desktop. It's something you have heard and will hear me say. It makes absolutely no sense. It's such a bad UI choice for the desktop it makes you think Microsoft did Zero user testing.

Why are we activating hidden menu's for everything on the desktop? Clearly they knew they were loosing out on the tablet market and wanted to get there as soon as possible. So instead of giving the desktop a decent user experience they hurried up finished windows 8 covered in touch and said good enough, we don't have time to refine it on the desktop we have to get it out, ship it!

Then there is the fact that during the setup Microsoft removed the option to set which timezone you are in... WTF!!. Like I said in a previous thread, I connected remotely to a woman who has had her windows 8 machine for a month and her clock was still set on Pacific standard time. Although this does fit with Windows 8 mission statement "More clicks". Instead of having a simple drop down menu during the initial setup, we have have to change it by going into the clock options.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

this "Woe is me, things have changed!" crap is getting old. It's been four months since release, if you're having THAT much difficulty, then perhaps computers are not for you.

What do you care how people like their computers? Personally, I think the Twike is kind of an awesome car.

But I wouldn't want to force it on you...

[Dashel]

Why is everyone so overly concerned with the All Apps menu? For a menu that's not supposed to be largely seen often, people here are keen to pick it apart.

You act as if users just sit there and stare at their PC hoping it will do something for them. Let me tell you, my classmates at school don't do this. Maybe your generation has trouble, but mine does not. They can pick up a device and run with it in seconds. It didn't take long for friends to become familiar with Start, and if they can do it, anyone can.

But this "Woe is me, things have changed!" crap is getting old. It's been four months since release, if you're having THAT much difficulty, then perhaps computers are not for you.

Nice dodge, again, just admit you're wrong once in awhile, it would do wonders to the temperment of the discussion. Please, tell me about those few clicks though...

So because your generation is so stupid that you can only use devices you can learn 'in a few seconds' you are going to berate others with the same you can't handle change cop out? We aren't having difficulty, we simply don't prefer it because complexity doesn't make us piddle like a scared dog.

Your thread on the Start menu is laughable simply because you have a warped, n00bish view of the use of All Programs (since as you admit, you never used it), where many actually like the utility of browsing for organized things. So please, adjust your 'tude, dude. That broken record has been skipping for much longer than four months.

[+Warwagon MVC]

Nice dodge, again, just admit you're wrong once in awhile, it would do wonders to the temperment of the discussion. Please, tell me about those few clicks though...

So because your generation is so stupid that you can only use devices you can learn 'in a few seconds' you are going to berate others with the same you can't handle change cop out? We aren't having difficulty, we simply don't prefer it because complexity doesn't make us piddle like a scared dog.

Your thread on the Start menu is laughable simply because you have a warped, n00bish view of the use of All Programs (since as you admit, you never used it), where many actually like the utility of browsing for organized things. So please, adjust your 'tude, dude. That broken record has been skipping for much longer than four months.

Exactly, It's not that we can't use the Start Screen, we just don't want to be dumbed down

The photo on the bottom was taken from the movie "Idiocracy".

[Dot Matrix]

One more thing that bugs me about windows 8 and the fact that On the desktop side of things Microsoft has gone clueless when they remove the dedicated "Computer" button. On a desktop I consider "Computer" a key section of windows. Sure you can awkwardly click the new explorer button the bottom then click the very small "Computer" name on the left hand side.

It seems the only way pro windows 8 users can defend windows 8 is by saying "Use this hot key, use that hot key, just search for it, pin your stuff to your taskbar". The average user does not know about hot keys. Most average users don't even know that control + C Copies. Most never even knew their keyboard had a windows key, most probably still don't. When you open up the new start screen how does the user know they can just start typing to find something? Does Microsoft tell them? No. How about an actual search button, oh that's right, that's hidden. What about the "All programs list"? Oh that's right that's hidden too.

I'm not sure which brain cell damaged sasquatch though it was a good idea to hide all the menu's from the user on the desktop. It's something you have heard and will hear me say. It makes absolutely no sense. It's such a bad UI choice for the desktop it makes you think Microsoft did Zero user testing.

Why are we activating hidden menu's for everything on the desktop? Clearly they knew they were loosing out on the tablet market and wanted to get there as soon as possible. So instead of giving the desktop a decent user experience they hurried up finished windows 8 covered in touch and said good enough, we don't have time to refine it on the desktop we have to get it out, ship it!

Then there is the fact that during the setup Microsoft removed the option to set which timezone you are in... WTF!!. Like I said in a previous thread, I connected remotely to a woman who has had her windows 8 machine for a month and her clock was still set on Pacific standard time. Although this does fit with Windows 8 mission statement "More clicks". Instead of having a simple drop down menu during the initial setup, we have have to change it by going into the clock options.

Refine what on the desktop? The desktop is a subset of the Metro UI now, it was intended and purposefully designed that way from the start. And there is nothing wrong with hidden menus? Why does my screen need to be cluttered with menus? It makes no logical sense to overwhelm the user. I want my content to be the focus, not eleventy billion options cluttering my screen. And, if you wanna make the argument, you have hidden menus on ANY OS. Mac, Linux, and even Windows 7. What Windows 8 does is no different. The only thing is that I can now activate them with a swipe of the mouse or a swipe of my finger.