Secure Boot complaint filed against Microsoft

By tiagosilva29
in Linux

 Share

Recommended Posts

Grand Master

redvamp128

Posted
Posted

I still haven't seen an example.

I had a friend bring me his All in one with Windows 8

Acer Aspire AZS600-UR15

and wanted me to install Windows 7 on it- there was no option to turn off the check.

Windows 7 would pretend like it would install then at the point of installing boot loader - Fail- even when I placed a fresh drive int the machine.

It would not let it write to the boot sector.

I looked and there was nothing -- the only options were - to control boot order- check for extra hard drives and turn to compatibility mode.

I had to end up restoring the Windows 8.

Grand Master

+Red King Subscriber²

Posted
  • Subscriber²
Posted (edited)

No this has nothing to do with LINUX not being good but Microsoft forcing Windows 8 on you....

I mean let me take Linux out of the equation for you.

Windows 8 runs like a snail or you just don't like it and you decide you want to buy and install Windows 7 instead

Whoops Not GOING TO ALLOW IT...

. you can't because the only OS your computer thinks is a Valid install is Windows 8.

And in some of the OEM's there is no bios option to remove or disable this check.

The easy way to edit this is allow the OEM's to have a bios that can be downloaded to allow people to turn it off.

What this boils down to is Allow the user the choice.

What a non argument!

A non-techie user will be content with latest Windows.

A techie user on the other hand should know better.

You have the choice either buy from a large company or build it yourself and install whatever you want on it.

Grand Master

redvamp128

Posted
Posted

What a non argument!

A non-techie user will be content with latest Windows.

A techie user on the other hand should know better.

You have the choice either buy from a large company or build it yourself and install whatever you want on it.

So a user should be content with a system that lags? then? And they want to run a lower OS? - Priceless-

And upgrade of processor is not a valid option since it is a cpu/gpu built into an all in one .

Or you should be stuck with something they don't like then?

Grand Master

seta-san

Posted
Posted

Probably because theoretically, They are knocking at the door and microsoft is behind the locked door giggling while Linux users scratch their heads.

it's abuse of a monopoly by locking out the competition from even experimenting with alternatives.

Veteran

rfirth

Posted
Posted

Acer- Emachine - Gateway to name a few... There is no option to disable it at all-- it is missing.

Microsoft REQUIRES that all x86/x86-64 machines have the option to turn off Secure Boot...

I had a friend bring me his All in one with Windows 8

Acer Aspire AZS600-UR15

and wanted me to install Windows 7 on it- there was no option to turn off the check.

Windows 7 would pretend like it would install then at the point of installing boot loader - Fail- even when I placed a fresh drive int the machine.

It would not let it write to the boot sector.

I looked and there was nothing -- the only options were - to control boot order- check for extra hard drives and turn to compatibility mode.

I had to end up restoring the Windows 8.

Secure Boot was obviously disabled.

It shouldn't even let you boot from a DVD if Secure Boot is enabled.

Compatibility mode? Perhaps they're calling it that? By the way, Secure Boot doesn't prevent the writing of the boot sector, I don't think. I think it only prevents booting from a boot sector that doesn't have a valid certificate stored in the UEFI. I think. So if malware overwrites it, you will be blocked from booting... and will have to run the recovery DVD to re-write the boot sector.

Grand Master

goretsky Supervisor

Posted
  • Supervisor
Posted

Hello,

Can you please list the brands and models of computers that vendors have shipped that have Windows 8 preloaded and no option to disable UEFI Secure Boot in their firmware? Please note that by computer, I mean an IA-32 instruction set compatible CPU such as those made by AMD or Intel, and not tablet devices with ARM CPUs that run Windows RT. Thank you.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky

No this has nothing to do with LINUX not being good but Microsoft forcing Windows 8 on you....

I mean let me take Linux out of the equation for you.

Windows 8 runs like a snail or you just don't like it and you decide you want to buy and install Windows 7 instead

Whoops Not GOING TO ALLOW IT...

. you can't because the only OS your computer thinks is a Valid install is Windows 8.

And in some of the OEM's there is no bios option to remove or disable this check.

The easy way to edit this is allow the OEM's to have a bios that can be downloaded to allow people to turn it off.

What this boils down to is Allow the user the choice.

I mean what if people buy a PC with Windows 8 and decide they don't like it at all... and they want to install the following.

Windows 7

Linux

Hackintosh

But their computer won't allow them to do this.

This is as they are trying to show is the same option as Microsoft locking people into having IE installed by default.

The other thing to look at is -- people say "BUY a Linux Computer" well that limits the choices and those choices are not very strong computers.

Other than -

https://www.system76.com

But still there are not a lot of options- They don't even offer any AMD chip-sets.

Some of these people don't mind paying for a computer with Windows but also like the CHOICE to have a dual boot as well.

I mean would you want a computer where you can't even choose which OS you want on it?

Grand Master

The_Decryptor Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted

I can't see this going anywhere, Microsoft aren't locking anybody out, the Linux guys can sign their own releases (Or they can do what Red Hat tried to do, and patch the kernel to read the signed binary MS provides), or they can simply turn it off (I can't even enable it on my PC since my GFX card isn't up to spec, Windows 8 doesn't have an issue with it)

...

Compatibility mode? Perhaps they're calling it that? By the way, Secure Boot doesn't prevent the writing of the boot sector, I don't think. I think it only prevents booting from a boot sector that doesn't have a valid certificate stored in the UEFI. I think. So if malware overwrites it, you will be blocked from booting... and will have to run the recovery DVD to re-write the boot sector.

"Compatibility Mode" (Or Compatibility Support Module) is the UEFI name for "BIOS", great isn't it? Turning that option on causes it to boot the the classic BIOS method and disables any nice functionality UEFI provides (like Secure Boot)

Veteran

nub

Posted
Posted

Microsoft forcing Windows 8 on you....

You do know that Microsoft REQUIRES that secure boot can be disabled, right? Microsoft isn't doing ****. You're a god damn idiot. Stop blabbering bull****.

I had a friend bring me his All in one with Windows 8

Acer Aspire AZS600-UR15

ZCyb479.png

Funny... I was able to find it in the manual.

https://mega.co.nz/#!VkFRXaAT!LLt1iRqH54ssGoLDI_tvIggvWulOt87OZUTc7T7DWOU

  • goretsky and Ralph King Edouard II
  • Like 2
Grand Master

redvamp128

Posted
Posted

I can't see this going anywhere, Microsoft aren't locking anybody out, the Linux guys can sign their own releases (Or they can do what Red Hat tried to do, and patch the kernel to read the signed binary MS provides), or they can simply turn it off (I can't even enable it on my PC since my GFX card isn't up to spec, Windows 8 doesn't have an issue with it)

"Compatibility Mode" (Or Compatibility Support Module) is the UEFI name for "BIOS", great isn't it? Turning that option on causes it to boot the the classic BIOS method and disables any nice functionality UEFI provides (like Secure Boot)

Actually that option listed turned the SATA drive as an ATA drive when choosing Compatibility mode.

It would boot the Windows 7 DVD but when it went to write to the Drive that was when it failed.

There was no listed option to turn it off.. the bios options were sparse.

Grand Master

redvamp128

Posted
Posted

You do know that Microsoft REQUIRES that secure boot can be disabled, right? Microsoft isn't doing ****. You're a god damn idiot. Stop blabbering bull****.

ZCyb479.png

Funny... I was able to find it in the manual.

https://mega.co.nz/#...t87OZUTc7T7DWOU

Seriously There was no Authentication Tab when I was in it-- and I just called the guy and he booted to the bios and it is not there.

Veteran

rfirth

Posted
Posted

There was no listed option to turn it off.. the bios options were sparse.

I don't know, seems like it's pretty obvious to me:

ZCyb479.png

Funny... I was able to find it in the manual.

Seriously There was no Authentication Tab when I was in it-- and I just called the guy and he booted to the bios and it is not there.

Fine, but Microsoft does require that you have the ability to disable it. Your dispute isn't with Microsoft, but with Acer. This isn't an instance of Microsoft being anti-competitive or intentionally locking others out.

Grand Master

redvamp128

Posted
Posted

I don't know, seems like it's pretty obvious to me:

What bios revision did the screen come from

Fine, but Microsoft does require that you have the ability to disable it. Your dispute isn't with Microsoft, but with Acer. This isn't an instance of Microsoft being anti-competitive or intentionally locking others out.

What bios revision?

Grand Master

Torolol

Posted
Posted

the one who need the secure boot most is the corporates environtment,

however current 'secure boot' implementation is less desired

as the fact that key was handled by Microsoft & hardware vendor, and NOT by hardware owner.

If hardware owner can create its own unique keys,

they can sign the OS files with it,

and the computer can only works if it run using said 'apporved' OS,

this is the ideal way of using Secure Boot in corporate environtment.

While in current situation, suppose corporate using secure boot Windows 8,

but employess managed to install some other OS,

because the fact that OS signed with the SAME Key as used by the W8,

the secure boot protocols will accept and run that OS.

From Corporate's security point of view thats are not desireable,

and thus doesn't achieve alleged security that suppose to be delieverd by 'Secure Boot'.

Sure you can disable the Secure Boot,

but can you specify/modify the key? NO. Only hardware vendor can do that.

And if the current Secure Boot's Keys are compromised just like how PlayStation 3's keys was compromised,

that means all existing secure boot can be compromised as the key management was handled by MS & hardware vendor.

Grand Master

The_Decryptor Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted

...

Sure you can disable the Secure Boot,

but can you specify/modify the key? NO. Only hardware vendor can do that.

...

If it's any good you can, my motherboard lets me install/remove any keys (including the default MS keys)

Veteran

Alwaysonacoffebreak

Posted
Posted

the one who need the secure boot most is the corporates environtment,

however current 'secure boot' implementation is less desired

as the fact that key was handled by Microsoft & hardware vendor, and NOT by hardware owner.

If hardware owner can create its own unique keys,

they can sign the OS files with it,

and the computer can only works if it run using said 'apporved' OS,

this is the ideal way of using Secure Boot in corporate environtment.

While in current situation, suppose corporate using secure boot Windows 8,

but employess managed to install some other some other OS

because the fact that OS signed with the SAME Key as used by the W8,

the secure boot protocols will accept and run that OS.

From Corporate's security point of view thats are not desireable,

and thus doesn't achieve alleged security that suppose to be delieverd by 'Secure Boot'.

Sure you can disable the Secure Boot,

but can you specify/modify the key? NO. Only hardware vendor can do that.

And if the current Secure Boot's Keys are compromised just like how PlayStation 3's keys was compromised,

that means all existing secure boot can be compromised as the key management was handled by MS & hardware vendor.

Stopped reading at "keys handled by Microsoft".

No they are not. Verisign is handling Secure Boot keys. Microsoft bought they key like everyone else can do, they even offered keys for Linux distros for free for a while but since Linus is too stuck up on his own views it went all sour, this is nothing you can blame MS on.

  • Ralph King Edouard II and Stoffel
  • Like 2
Grand Master

articuno1au

Posted
Posted

the one who need the secure boot most is the corporates environtment,

however current 'secure boot' implementation is less desired

as the fact that key was handled by Microsoft & hardware vendor, and NOT by hardware owner.

If hardware owner can create its own unique keys,

they can sign the OS files with it,

and the computer can only works if it run using said 'apporved' OS,

this is the ideal way of using Secure Boot in corporate environtment.

While in current situation, suppose corporate using secure boot Windows 8,

but employess managed to install some other some other OS

because the fact that OS signed with the SAME Key as used by the W8,

the secure boot protocols will accept and run that OS.

From Corporate's security point of view thats are not desireable,

and thus doesn't achieve alleged security that suppose to be delieverd by 'Secure Boot'.

Sure you can disable the Secure Boot,

but can you specify/modify the key? NO. Only hardware vendor can do that.

And if the current Secure Boot's Keys are compromised just like how PlayStation 3's keys was compromised,

that means all existing secure boot can be compromised as the key management was handled by MS & hardware vendor.

You can load your own signing keys in some implementations..

That is, however, the reason it's set up the way it is. It's beyond confusing for the average user. That's why Microsoft mandated that you be able to turn it off.

If you want secure boot that you hold the keys to, awesome. Find an OEM provider that allows you to, then find a way to sign the MS bootloader and you're in.. You are at best a borderline use case >.<

Veteran

rfirth

Posted
Posted

That explains it. His is 5/22/12 I guess I should email acer for a download of an updated bios.

Why would a computer that shipped with Windows 8... which was released in October 2012... ship with a BIOS revision from May 2012 instead of the more current version from August 2012? Interesting...

And if that's a revision from May 2012, and that was written before Windows 8 was released... why can't you boot Windows 7?

See? Microsoft isn't screwing with you. Acer is.

Veteran

Alwaysonacoffebreak

Posted
Posted

That explains it. His is 5/22/12 I guess I should email acer for a download of an updated bios.

BIOS updates should be listed on their site download sections as well. At least most OEM's have it this way.

Grand Master

redvamp128

Posted
Posted

Why would a computer that shipped with Windows 8... which was released in October 2012... ship with a BIOS revision from May 2012 instead of the more current version from August 2012? Interesting...

And if that's a revision from May 2012, and that was written before Windows 8 was released... why can't you boot Windows 7?

See? Microsoft isn't screwing with you. Acer is.

that one was oops a miss typed I am

on my phone.

8/22/12 was what it should have been whichit was September 2012 when he wanted me to put 7 on it... there were no updated bios on their site when I checked that month

Grand Master

Torolol

Posted
Posted
If it's any good you can, my motherboard lets me install/remove any keys (including the default MS keys)

whats your motherboard type?

i would like to recommend it to some client,

as most Secure Boot capable motherboard i've seen, doesn't allow you to installing your own keys easily,

some said that user can change the key during Firmware Updates,

which mean the key must be specified somewhere in the firmware binaries!

Stopped reading at "keys handled by Microsoft".

No they are not. Verisign is handling Secure Boot keys. Microsoft bought they key like everyone else can do, they even offered keys for Linux distros for free for a while but since Linus is too stuck up on his own views it went all sour, this is nothing you can blame MS on.

yes, but doesn't change the fact that almost (all?) windows 8 in existance are signed by the very same key, which pose pending problem of key compromise i mentioned above.

And, the corporates actually want to sign the OS they use with their own unique keys,

as that would give them control on what OS allowed to be used in their environtment,

and less likely affected whenever the world-wide Windows-8 Secure Boot keys compromise happens.

but:

then find a way to sign the MS bootloader and you're in..
signing MS OS's component using your own unique keys...,

i read the report that some one did try and of course the Windows 8 was complaining afterward (which is a good thing from OS security's POV btw),

Thats however, unable to achieves what the corporates want.

You can load your own signing keys in some implementations..

That is, however, the reason it's set up the way it is.

It's beyond confusing for the average user. That's why Microsoft mandated that you be able to turn it off.

If you want secure boot that you hold the keys to, awesome. Find an OEM provider that allows you to.

yes, by firmwire updates some OEM did offering that, but it also mean OEM will know the half about the unique key,

some corps would like if if none of the outsider would know about their keys.

And currently, only open-sourced OS (linux flavor for example) components than can easly signed, not Windows 8.

so why Coprs not switch to Linux?

well, due the fact that Corporation still need windows, and OS migration are costly & painful process.

Grand Master

redvamp128

Posted
Posted

Hello,

Can you please list the brands and models of computers that vendors have shipped that have Windows 8 preloaded and no option to disable UEFI Secure Boot in their firmware? Please note that by computer, I mean an IA-32 instruction set compatible CPU such as those made by AMD or Intel, and not tablet devices with ARM CPUs that run Windows RT. Thank you.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky

I think we figured it out...bios needs flahing... his was for august 2012 ... which did not have that as an option... the october bios says that was added.. but when I checked in september there were no bios updates ... which I then gave it back to him.... so there is a fix....problem is on acer

This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Posts

    • Cloud Security Fundamentals eBook —was $131.95, now free to download

      By News Staff · Posted

      Cloud Security Fundamentals eBook —was $131.95, now free to download by Steven Parker Claim your complimentary copy (worth $131.95) of "Cloud Security Fundamentals: Building the Foundations for Secure Cloud Platforms" for free, before the offer ends on July 1. Description In Cloud Security Fundamentals: Building the Foundations for Secure Cloud Platforms, cybersecurity leader and educator, Jason Edwards, delivers a comprehensive guide to safeguarding data, applications, and infrastructure in the cloud. The author offers a complete walkthrough of cloud security, moving from foundational concepts to advanced, forward-looking practices. The book is filled with practical examples, hands-on guidance, and lessons drawn from real-world cloud security incidents and breaches. It equips readers with the tools and knowledge they need to defend against threats in cloud environments and how to understand coming developments in cloud technology that will impact organizations in all industries. Inside the book: A thorough introduction to cloud-native and advanced security practices for contemporary firms A chapter on relevant cloud security certifications and professional growth advice Practical discussions of foundational concepts in cloud security, including IAM, Zero Trust, and DevSecOps Complete treatments of advanced cloud security themes, like leadership strategies, operational best practices, and techniques for dealing with common and emerging threats Perfect for cloud security professionals, IT managers, and DevOps professionals, Cloud Security Fundamentals will also benefit system administrators, compliance and risk officers, consultants, auditors, and technology students in a variety of fields who require a foundational understanding of cloud security concepts. How to download for free Please ensure you read the terms and conditions to claim this offer. Complete and verifiable information is required in order to receive this free offer. If you have previously made use of these offers, you will not need to re-register. Was $131.95, but is now FREE | Below link offer expires on July 1. Cloud Security Fundamentals: Building the Foundations for Secure Cloud Platforms The below offers are also available for free in exchange for your (work) email: The Vibe Coding Playbook: Building Your Tech Business with AI ($35 Value) FREE - Expires 6/23 The Persuasion Engine: How Any Business Can Use AI-Powered Neuromarketing to Understand and Win Customers ($28 Value) FREE - Expires 6/24 How to Do More with Less: Future-Proofing Yourself in an AI-driven Economy ($28 Value) FREE - Expires 6/30 Cloud Security Fundamentals: Building the Foundations for Secure Cloud Platforms ($131.95 Value) FREE - Expires 7/1 The Complete Free AI Learning: Master ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini & More ($21 Value) FREE How to Build an AI Design Workflow with Gamma ($21 Value) FREE The Ultimate Linux Newbie Guide – Featured Free content Python Notes for Professionals – Featured Free content Learn Linux in 5 Days – Featured Free content Quick Reference Guide for Cybersecurity – Featured Free content We post these because we earn commission on each lead so as not to rely solely on advertising, which many of our readers block. It all helps toward paying staff reporters, servers and hosting costs. Other ways to support Neowin The above deal not doing it for you, but still want to help? Check out the links below. Check out our partner software in the Neowin Store Buy a T-shirt at Neowin's Threadsquad Subscribe to Neowin - for $14 a year, or $28 a year for an ad-free experience Disclosure: An account at Neowin Deals is required to participate in any deals powered by our affiliate, StackCommerce. For a full description of StackCommerce's privacy guidelines, go here. Neowin benefits from shared revenue of each sale made through the branded deals site.
    • TerraMaster F4-425 Pro review: an octa-core Intel NAS that ships with AI (OpenClaw)

      By Steven P. · Posted

      TerraMaster F4-425 Pro review: an octa-core Intel NAS that ships with AI (OpenClaw) by Steven Parker It has been a while since I reviewed a TerraMaster NAS, but the company reached out to me asking if I was willing to test the F4-425 Pro, which goes on sale today. It is an upgrade on the F4-425 Plus, which I reviewed back in October 2025 What you need to know is that it basically follows the design principles of the four-bay F4-425 series, with its all-metal exterior. Here are the most important specifications: TerraMaster F4-425 Pro CPU Intel Core N350 (8x E Cores/Threads, Max burst up to 3.9 GHz) Intel Core N305 (4x E Cores/Threads, Max burst up to 3.8 GHz) TDP: 7W / 9W (Base) Graphics Intel UHD Graphics 32 EUs (1.35 GHz) Intel UHD Graphics 24 EUs (1.25 GHz) Memory 1x slot 16 GB DDR5 4800MT/s non ECC SODIMM (Max 32 GB) 1x slot 8 GB DDR5 4800MT/s non ECC SODIMM (Max 32 GB) Disk Capacity 120 TB (30 TB x 4) Supported RAID Types TRAID, TRAID +, RAID0, RAID1, RAID5, RAID 6, RAID 10 Network 2x RJ-45 5 GbE Internal storage 3x M.2 2280 NVMe Slot (PCIe 3.0 x1) Bootloader 2Gbit 256 GB NAND Flash card (MX30LF2G28AD) USB port (internal) USB Ports 1x Type-C 3.2 Gen 2 (10Gbps) 3x Type-A 3.2 Gen 2 (10Gbps) HDMI 1x (HDMI) Hardware Transcoding Engine H.264, H.265, MPEG-4, VC-1 Maximum resolution: 4K (4096 x 2160); Maximum FPS: 60 Size (H/W/D) 219 x 181 x 150 mm Weight 2.9 kg System Fan 150 x181 x 219 mm Power 90W, 100V - 240V AC, 50/60 Hz, Single frequency Power consumption (HDDs) 45W (4x 4TB ST4000VN008 in read/write state) 14W (4x 4TB ST4000VN008 in hibernation) Noise Level: 20.9 dB(A) Using 4 SATA HDDs/SSDs in standby mode; Test environment noise: 17.3dB(A); Test distance: 1m Warranty 2 Years OS TOS 7.0.0706 (Beta) MSRP £639.99, $699.99, €739.99 / £739.99, $799.99, €839.99 As you can see above, there are two variants of the F4-425 Pro releasing today. The lesser variant has the slightly weaker N305 CPU and iGP, and 8 GB less RAM, although it also costs $100 less than the top variant we are testing today. In addition, these new F4-425 Pros are shipped with the as-yet-unreleased TOS 7 beta. So what is TOS 7 exactly? During the device initialization, you are warned not to use it in a production environment, which we'll get into later. My contact told me that TOS 7 exits beta today, June 23 with version 7.0.0746. The clear difference with the F4-425 Plus is that it contains the more powerful N350 Intel CPU released in the first quarter of 2025, with support for DisplayPort 1.4, HDMI 2.1, LPDDR5 (4800), DDR5 and DDR4, and a max TDP of just 7W. It also supports AV1 decoding, as well as H.264, VP8, VP9, H.265 (8 bit), and H.265 (10 bit). The different capabilities in the Alder Lake-N (and Twin Lake) series are listed below. Processor E-cores L3-cache Turbo clock GPU GPU-clock TDP Intel N355 8 6 MB 3.9 GHz 32 EUs 1.35 GHz 9 W Intel Core 3 N350 3.9 GHz 1.35 GHz 7 W Intel Core i3-N305 3.8 GHz 1.25 GHz 9 W Intel Core i3-N300 3.8 GHz 1.25 GHz Intel N250 4 3.8 GHz 1.25 GHz 6 W Intel Processor N200 3.7 GHz 0.75 GHz Intel N150 3.6 GHz 24 EUs 1 GHz Intel N97 1.2 GHz 12 W Intel Processor N100 3.4 GHz 0.75 GHz 6 W The CPU is part of the Alder Lake-N series that sits just below the top N355 offering, albeit with an impressive TDP (less than the N355 and N305) for the features it offers. It is designed for low- powered systems and entry-level laptops. As before, we are seeing another NAS with an acceptable, if not great, amount of RAM. It should be noted that the F4-425 Pro only has one SODIMM slot, so if you are planning to upgrade the already 16GB included in this NAS, it will have to be on one module of Single Rank DDR5. As a reminder, up until a couple of years ago, it was commonplace to only get 2 or 4GB max on a flagship Synology or QNAP home NAS. Ever since the likes of TerraMaster and more have entered the market with ample RAM sizes included in their NAS offerings, it has gone a long way in forcing the hands of the traditional makers to up their game a bit. Before we dive in, you can view the different SKUs released so far since the 2025 series launched for Home and SMB users, with the most important specifications listed along with the MSRP listed below: SKU CPU Cores Memory Link Price F2-425 Intel N5095 4 4 GB DDR4 2.5 GbE x1 $249.99 F4-425 Intel N5095 4 4 GB DDR4 2.5 GbE x1 $369.99 F2-425 Plus Intel Core N150 4 8 GB DDR5 5 GbE x 2 $399.99 F4-425 Plus Intel Core N150 4 16 GB DDR5 5 GbE x 2 $569.99 F4-425 Pro Intel Core N305 8 8 GB DDR5 5 GbE x 2 $699.99 F4-425 Pro Intel Core N350 8 16 GB DDR5 5 GbE x 2 $799.99 The F2 in the product name means two 3.5-inch HDD bays, where F4 is four 2.5-inch bays. First impressions Like with the F8 SSD Plus packaging, the F4-425 Pro is using the upgraded box materials, which certainly look better than a plain cream colored box with TERRAMASTER stamped on the sides. The box gives off a premium feel and certainly adds a positive vibe to first impressions. In the box F4-425 Pro TNAS device Power adapter LAN cable (CAT 6) Quick guide [full online guide] Limited warranty notice Screws (for HDD bays) Stickers 2x rubber feet (spares) Design As has become kind of common with TerraMaster, certainly in the last three years, the 2025 F2- and F4-series have received a makeover that really adds to the premium feel of the NAS. Gone are the plastic shells, now replaced with an aluminum outer shell, with the front and back retaining the textured black plastic we saw on the 2024 models. Some key differences from the 2024 series include placing the power button back on the front, along with the addition of a Type A USB port. It's not much bigger or heavier either; in fact, it weighs 500 grams less than the F4-424 Pro. It's slightly shorter in height and depth (length), but only by a few millimeters. The front and back do retain a similar style to the 2024 series. On the front, you just have your four bays along with LED indicators for the HDDs and power. The welcomed change is having a USB port on the front for quick access, should you need to back up a USB drive, for example. Around the back, from top to bottom, you have a reset pin hole, an HDMI port, two 5 GbE Ethernet ports, two USB 3.2 Gen 2 (10 Gbps) Type A ports with a Type-C port below them, and a connector for the barrel port power source. Again, there's no Kensington Security Slot present, which is a bit of a shame considering it's a data storage device. Left side Right side On the left and right of the F4-425 Plus, it is completely smooth aluminum with a TERRAMASTER logo printed on both sides. On the bottom, there are some holes to assist ventilation. Unlike with the F4-425 Plus, the rubber feet did come unstuck during the teardown, which was also an issue on the 2023 series. It seems like other customers have lodged complaints about them, as TerraMaster now includes two spare rubber feet in the box, in case any of the preinstalled ones are lost; however, this seems more like a papering over the cracks solution rather than actually fixing the issue with better quality rubber stand-offs. There are also four screws that must be removed in order to access the internals. Teardown Upon removing the four screws, you can slide the device out of its shell to reveal the three NVMe M.2 slots (PCIe 3.0 X1) and single SODIMM slot connector, which is populated with a single 16GB DDR5 4800MT/s module. I added a couple of MP44Q M.2 PCIe 4.0 SSDs (2 x 4TB) that can be availed on Amazon for $492.99 that TEAMGROUP supplied us with, along with a 250GB 970 Evo Plus that my colleague Chris White sent me by accident and let me keep a few years ago. As I have said in previous reviews, TerraMaster support staff actually encourage installing whatever you want on their devices, and happily, the USB port for the bootloader is now easily accessible should you want to use it for your own flavor of NAS OS, such as TrueNAS, Unraid, or maybe Xpenology. Yes, because TerraMaster has now switched to a 256 GB NAND Flash card (3rd photo above) for the TOS bootloader. This is also replaceable, but you can also simply add a USB bootloader, access the BIOS, and tell the F4-425 Pro to boot from that instead of the Flash card. Unlike earlier iterations of TerraMaster NAS, you don't have to tear this down any further than the four screws on the outer shell in order to be able to access and manage the memory, NVMe slots, and USB bootloader. However, if you need to access the NAND Flash card or CMOS battery, then eight more screws (four on each side) need to be removed in order to take off the rear panel with the 120mm fan, and then the motherboard can be lifted off and removed from the SATA connector PCB. There's also no risk of threading the screw holes, because the four that hold the shell in place are metal on metal, while the screws that hold the rear panel on do screw into plastic. Either way, like last time when I reviewed the F4-425 plus, I was just happier to see larger screws being used. Overall, it follows some great improvements in build quality from the 2024 series and earlier. Setup BIOS The F4-425 Pro includes an Aptio BIOS from American Megatrends [1, 2], and you can setup pretty much everything here including the boot order, which is locked to the UEFI OS, however above that choice you can enable or disable booting to the USB bootloader so this would still allow you to switch to a USB stick with an alternative bootloader and boot from it, or disable it to instead always start from the first disk with an OS installed on it. Initial Setup Setup is roughly the same as the F4-425 Plus, along with the new TOS 7 setup dialogs, so there will be no surprises here. Upon connecting to the LAN and booting up, the F4-425 Pro can be reached by navigating to http://tnas.local. If that doesn't work, you can use the local address assigned via DHCP, which you can find using the TNAS PC desktop application, which is essentially a TerraMaster NAS finder. The setup process is pretty straightforward, through a wizard, and in full below: TOS 7 Initialization As you can see, TOS 7 received a new coat of paint, and the initialization requires fewer interactions. Happily, TOS no longer decides to throw all disks into the same Storage Pool; 2.5-inch HDDs are allocated into Storage Pool 1. This is because two of the HDDs are allocated to hold system files. Previously (with TOS 5 and 6), if you pre-installed HDDs and SSDs, they were all placed into Storage Pool 1, even if you did not select the SSDs for inclusion during the onboarding. TOS 7 Setup On first boot, there is a tutorial and some steps to take to harden the TNAS (or not), which includes an immediate update from TOS 7.0.0616 to 7.0.0706, of which the changelog screenshot is also included in the above gallery. It must be noted that the Security Advisor still contains (in my opinion) a pretty major bug in that if you enable SPC and then do the required rebooting, the Security Advisor still says that SPC is disabled. TerraMaster provided the following statement about it: It is disappointing that TOS 7 has been in beta since December, and this OOBE issue is still there. Shutdown option has moved Instead of a Taskbar option to manage the NAS, all of these options have been moved to a "Start panel", initially I didn't see it and my contact had to show me how to power off the F4-425 Pro. To logout, reboot or power off you can find those controls at the top right of the Panel. It is also possible to power off through the TNAS mobile app beta. Storage setup Above, you can see the steps I took to create the Storage Pools and Volumes. I made a second Storage Pool using TRAID on two 4TB MP44Q SSDs (which, in this instance, is similar to RAID 5), and finally, I added the 250GB 970 Evo Plus drive as Hyper Cache on Storage Pool 1 in Balanced mode. Registering If you decide not to lock down the F4-425 Pro in Security Isolation Mode (blocking all external connections), then you could set up a TNAS device ID through the Remote Access setting in the Control Panel (which must be unique). This works in combination with an online TerraMaster account. TOS 7 TNAS Online Creating a TerraMaster account and linking the device online activates the warranty when you provide proof of purchase and the serial number, but it also gives you access through the TNAS mobile app, which allows you to complete certain operationsб including powering off and restarting the NAS remotely. A TNAS mobile update is required to gain access through TOS 7, and this is provided on the TerraMaster website, as it is not yet on Google Play. The app is evolving all the time and has made leaps and bounds since I first started reviewing TerraMaster devices almost three years ago. It is not quite there yet if you are comparing the likes of Synology, which, sadly, a lot of users online do all the time. OpenClaw setup One of the main selling points of the new F4-425 Pro is the inclusion of OpenClaw, with TerraMaster claiming that it is "powered by the world's first AI-native TOS 7 OS, supporting local-first smart workflows and independent data control." However, I immediately ran into problems trying to enable OpenClaw. After waiting 20 minutes at the "Enabling" message of the OpenClaw app following installation, I decided to do some searching online and discovered that it couldn't complete the installation process due to SPC being enabled, which is something TOS 7 immediately recommends to be enabled on first boot. SPC for NAS (TOS 7) is basically the same principle as UAC in Windows; it blocks executables from being launched by non-Super Users. After reaching out to my contact about these issues, I received the following response: Anyway, this only became clear when I closed the OpenClaw app screen and clicked on the OpenClaw icon in the taskbar; that is when I saw the message about disabling SPC. I think, due to the fact that this is a requirement, this should be a prompt during the installation process, not when closing the App Market and then trying to launch OpenClaw. There's also no 'Getting started' guide for people like me who have never used OpenClaw. I tried to add an LLM and discovered the tutorial led nowhere. That's when I started looking around the official TerraMaster forums, and I found a guide that helpfully explains that you won't get anywhere with OpenClaw unless you have a paid plan, which is disappointing because I imagined there would be an option to use a local LLM as I do in SubtitleEdit with Whisper-XXL. In addition, with the marketing imagery on the official site, it says that the OpenClaw feature is "all processed 100% locally for absolute privacy." which led me to believe that I could install a local LLM, not one that required paid tokens. In any case, TerraMaster does not provide guidance for this new feature, which was also a selling point of the F4-425 Pro! My contact also provided clarification about the above points I raised with TerraMaster Since it is not in the scope of the review to add paid services, I'll leave that to the people who are more qualified with OpenClaw. F4-425 Pro Surveillance App TOS also comes with a Surveillance app, which is not installed by default; it can be found in the App Market recommended section. In addition, after installing, it doesn't drop a shortcut on the Desktop or top taskbar, but you can "Send to Desktop" from the App Market listing for the app for a quick way to open it. Adding my Reolink POE doorbell camera was painless. TerraMaster doesn't appear to have a repository of preconfigured cameras; instead, the camera must be added using ONVIF or RTSP. No mobile Surveillance app TerraMaster still doesn't have a dedicated Surveillance app, although from searching online, Surveillance can be used and managed through the TNAS mobile app. I tried this with the updated TNAS mobile app beta in combination with TOS 7 and got a message that Surveillance was "Only accessible through web browser," so I reckon this must be limited to the stable versions of TOS 6 and the mobile app. More quirks In addition, whenever I minimized the Live View window in the browser Surveillance app, the feed appeared to switch to the Low-bandwidth stream, and there was no way to get the High-quality stream back. To get the High-quality stream back, I had to close Live View and then reopen it. Benchmarking A pretty cool feature of the TOS 7 is that it allows you to install directly to the NVMe M.2 SSD. In order to do that, you would have to leave out any HDDs during initialization, and even then, the system partitions are always written to two HDDs when they are eventually added. With three NVMe slots, this also gives an interesting scenario where you could build a TRAID storage Pool for installing all your apps and Docker on, and keep the third for SSD cache on the HDD pool. Limitless options! SATA PCIe 3.0 X1 A CrystalDiskMark test on a mapped network drive from within a Windows 11 25H2 PC (image above) connected over a 5 GbE hub was well within acceptable ranges. Although the read result on SATA was a little less than with the F4-425 Plus, for some reason, while writes were generally better. SATA PCIe 3.0 X1 I also ran the NAS Performance tester, which tests the link speed performance. As you can see, it pretty much maxes out the 5GbE connection. Of course, you can also opt to bond the two 5 GbE connections for a bit more umph, but I didn't do that. TOS 7, which, as of testing, is still in Beta, comes with an App Center that has a bunch of handy programs you can install right off the bat, such as Emby, Plex, Docker, as well as in-house Backup and Surveillance solutions. As you can imagine, any media streaming services you would want to host off the F4-425 Pro will work great, thanks to the Intel Core N350 CPU and its 16 GB of DDR5 memory. Accessing from mobile is only possible if Security Isolation Mode is disabled, which can put your NAS at risk from external sources, so there was no way to access it from the TNAS Mobile app. It's also quiet. I had this sat next to my computer on my work desk for the past week, and I did wonder if the noise I was accustomed to with NAS devices would annoy me, but all I could hear was a soft whirring of the rear fan (which was a little annoying) when the disks were not actively copying or reading data. Conclusion So what have I learned? Unfortunately, this release raises a few important questions and concerns that I feel haven't been adequately addressed. What I didn't like Our variant shipped with TOS 7 beta, and it's advised not to use it in a production environment. I feel that's a bit limiting on an $800 device. The mobile app is also still in beta and does not support some of the first-party apps, like Surveillance, and it still has quite a few bugs. I am a bit confused about the OpenClaw marketing along with the F4-425 Pro. I feel like that if it's going to be a main selling point, then offer official guidance on how to get started with it. TerraMaster recommends enabling SPC, but then markets the NAS for use with OpenClaw, which requires disabling SPC to be able to use it, opening up genuine security concerns for the NAS; and that's before you get into the security concerns of OpenClaw itself. Of course, the above issues won't be a problem if you decide to install something else on it, or even go back to the stable TOS 6. I wish TerraMaster had just given TOS 7 as opt-in rather than shipping with it. TOS 7 has been available as a preview since December 2025 (so well before my last TerraMaster review), and according to a thread on Reddit where a user shared a screenshot from the TerraMaster Facebook page, it is scheduled to launch today, June 23, but there's nothing about that in the TerraMaster news blog. My contact confirmed over email that TOS 7 exits beta today. The rubber feet also deserve a mention as they continue to be a problem, with them coming unstuck the moment you shift the F4-425 Pro anywhere on your desk. What I liked What it comes down to, though, aside from what I already mentioned, you are still getting a quality, affordable device here, so recommending it will depend on the individual's use case. If you're just looking for a relatively small NAS device to manage virtual machines on, backup your files, and take care of your home theater streaming, then it is a great device that will certainly futureproof you for some time. It provides good performance, takes up little space, and is, on the whole, very quiet. Four bays afford proper redundancy using TRAID or RAID 5, and you can even expand on storage capacity by adding the 2-bay D5, or 4-bay D8 Hybrid DAS over a USB 3.2 (10Gbps) link. Considering the 2024 releases were more about power, with the likes of an Intel Core i5-1235U high-end laptop CPU under the hood, I asked my contact last time if we could expect more of the same in higher-end models and was told: It makes a lot of sense to use Intel's N350 chip inside a NAS; it is more than capable of doing what the F4-425 Pro is intended for, media streaming and backup. The only downside is still the clear lack of community and even staff support on the official forums. In the past, I have had topics go unanswered for days, or there would be generic-type "we've noted this and passed it onto our developer team" type responses. Along with the other things I mentioned, it all ends up costing it a couple of points. If you are comfortable with the command line, Docker, and setting up TrueNAS or Unraid, you'll be fine. You can do great things with this hardware. In TOS, the apps are a bit lacking, and things don't always work as expected.\ AI NAS?! What has become clear to me this year is that we are going to start seeing all kinds of "AI NAS" come to market, and while that might be good for us consumers, be diligent and research these claims. Although the F4-425 Pro technically comes with AI, it is really using a cloud service that is externally sourced off-device through the third party OpenClaw app. My colleague did review a newcomer to the NAS space earlier this year, and it includes a local AI assistant inside the Zettlab D4 NAS, and they do not even use AI in the product name, check out Chris' review here. Where to buy and a discount coupon However, it does not change the fact that this is truly a great entry-level home media-class NAS that you can buy right now. TerraMaster is having a 20% off launch discount, plus you can also still apply our unique 10% off coupon on checkout, which only works on the official website. So here is a breakdown of the pricing that is only valid on the official TerraMaster website. TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N350) + 20% discount + 10% coupon = $575.99 TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N305) + 20% discount + 10% coupon = $503.99 TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N350) + 20% discount + 10% coupon = £525.59 TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N305) + 20% discount + 10% coupon = £460.79 Use NEOWIN coupon code during checkout for 10% discount Over on Amazon US and UK, the F4-425 Pro also gets a 20% launch discount, but here, the above 10% coupon cannot be applied. TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N350) for $639.99 at Amazon US (was $799.99) TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N305) for $559.99 at Amazon US (was $699.99) TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N350) for £583.99 at Amazon UK (was £729.99) TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N305) for £511.99 at Amazon UK (was £639.99) As an Amazon Associate, when you purchase through links on our site, we earn from qualifying purchases.
    • The official Funny Pictures thread

      By Steven P. · Posted

    • Microsoft outs Windows 11 KB5095093 with long list of new features

      By binaryzero · Posted

      “Outs” lol
    • Newegg offers insane combo deal on Amazon Prime Day 2026 that beats Steam Machine

      By hellowalkman · Posted

      well you can add a GPU for around $500, that's still around the price of Steam Machine but overall significantly better in performance.

  • Recent Achievements

    • Rookie
      DaviKar went up a rank
      Rookie
    • Dedicated
      HidekoYamamoto94 earned a badge
      Dedicated
    • One Month Later
      timbobit earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • One Month Later
      nates earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Almohandis earned a badge
      Week One Done

  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      463
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      161
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      112
    4. 4
      Michael Scrip
      85
    5. 5
      Steven P.
      71
    Show More

  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!