Secure Boot complaint filed against Microsoft


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I know a couple of implementations offer revocation of third party keys, I've heard rumour some allow revocation of the master key and both of these cases allow for the addition of your own keys.

Your objection appears to be that some corporations want to control the entire signing process.. Something that no OEMs ever offered, and none offer despite MS getting them half way (I bet some allow the revocation of the primary signing key, but I've never bothered to look).. The issue of course being that Windows will object to a different signature on their binaries when it loads up.. So even if it was possible, you couldn't do it with Windows 8 >.>

You seem to want something that completely defies the point of the secure boot system :\

Also, I've yet to find a single business customer with a concern about the signing key in secure boot. Most of them don't care full stop. >.>

whats your motherboard type?

i would like to recommend it to some client,

as most Secure Boot capable motherboard i've seen, doesn't allow you to installing your own keys easily,

some said that user can change the key during Firmware Updates,

which mean the key must be specified somewhere in the firmware binaries!

...

Sabertooth Z77

It's not a low end mobo, and that's probably why it's more flexible in that regard.

You can download the latest BIOS from http://us.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/drivers.

I am. Seeing this now...thanks.. this was not an option sept of last year.... seems that is why in oct they released an updated one. Now have to teach him how to flash it... he is on assignment in germany now. He won't be back for another month. He said he still wants 7 win8 he says is sluggish.

I had a friend bring me his All in one with Windows 8

Acer Aspire AZS600-UR15

and wanted me to install Windows 7 on it- there was no option to turn off the check.

Windows 7 would pretend like it would install then at the point of installing boot loader - Fail- even when I placed a fresh drive int the machine.

It would not let it write to the boot sector.

I looked and there was nothing -- the only options were - to control boot order- check for extra hard drives and turn to compatibility mode.

I had to end up restoring the Windows 8.

Actually, I could think of a number of other reasons for that happening except Secure Boot. especially since the computer already allowed changing boot order and changing boot device.

So a user should be content with a system that lags? then? And they want to run a lower OS? - Priceless-

And upgrade of processor is not a valid option since it is a cpu/gpu built into an all in one .

Or you should be stuck with something they don't like then?

If Windows 8 lags, then it's either a so slow computer it'll lag on 7 as well, unlikely if it's a new computer, or there's something wrong with the computer and his techie friend should have known that instead of instantly blaming Windows 8 because he has a personal non rational hate for it, those are the things that make you unable to properly troubleshoot problems. you need objectivity.

I am. Seeing this now...thanks.. this was not an option sept of last year.... seems that is why in oct they released an updated one. Now have to teach him how to flash it... he is on assignment in germany now. He won't be back for another month. He said he still wants 7 win8 he says is sluggish.

Again, if his computer is sluggish, windows 7 isn't going to fix that, since no part of 8 is slower than 7, and many parts are in fact faster. so if it's sluggish something else is wrong.

and again, while your old bios didn't have the option to turn on secure boot, it was never on in the first place as has been explained to you, if it was on, it wouldn't have prevented writing the boot loaded, it would have prevented starting it and it wouldn't have allowed USB/CD boot. So there must be something else preventing writing the boot loader.

Again, if his computer is sluggish, windows 7 isn't going to fix that, since no part of 8 is slower than 7, and many parts are in fact faster. so if it's sluggish something else is wrong.

and again, while your old bios didn't have the option to turn on secure boot, it was never on in the first place as has been explained to you, if it was on, it wouldn't have prevented writing the boot loaded, it would have prevented starting it and it wouldn't have allowed USB/CD boot. So there must be something else preventing writing the boot loader.

It is not mine....the installer booted it only got as far as preparing.... failed on any hard drive writes..in an effort to fix the sluggushness ..I did a factory restore of it...when he bought it the literature he had said "now with secure boot" but we found no way to turn that off. That was september of last year.. when the user said sluggish he is talking about bsimpleb tasks like surfing the web. IE is what he said was slow and he did not like the tiles ... to him it is sluggish... I merely tried to give him what he needed. ...and I also tried which I know someone is going to say.. with and without the option of setup mode enabled and disabled. The booklet said it had secure boot... but no choice to go into advanced mode nor authenticate.....which the other person with the oct bios screen shows. That when he gets back we will flash it and try it again. I even tried one of my spare drives thinking it was something installed on his hard drive. That drive of mine I had wiped it and still no os other than 8 refused to install. So what else than a secure boot that his booklet said it had that was blocking it. Also on that spare drive I tried 7 .linux and then a copy of 8 which was the only one that would write to that spare drive. So please tell me what else it could be? I ended up putting his old one in and did a factory restore to help fix it. Then installed all updates.

Don't blame MS on that. Blame it on Linux not working with OEM to produce more Linux computers. Also, I thought Linux are mostly techy. They can just build the computer for themselves.

The other thing to look at is -- people say "BUY a Linux Computer" well that limits the choices and those choices are not very strong computers.

Other than -

https://www.system76.com

But still there are not a lot of options- They don't even offer any AMD chip-sets.

Again, if his computer is sluggish, windows 7 isn't going to fix that, since no part of 8 is slower than 7, and many parts are in fact faster. so if it's sluggish something else is wrong.

and again, while your old bios didn't have the option to turn on secure boot, it was never on in the first place as has been explained to you, if it was on, it wouldn't have prevented writing the boot loaded, it would have prevented starting it and it wouldn't have allowed USB/CD boot. So there must be something else preventing writing the boot loader.

There are a number of fringe cases where in 8 performs significantly worse than 7 on certain hardware configurations.

In particular there are a number of issues with how the OS communicates with storage devices that causes repeated interrupts and makes the OS run like proverbial ass >.>

I don't know how MS buggered that one up tbh D:

Even the knowledgeable ones (Timothy Lottes for one example) seem to believe MS did it just to block competition. I'm really not sure what to think of these people.

How are they blocking the competition when you can just go into your bios and turn secureboot off?

So a user should be content with a system that lags? then? And they want to run a lower OS? - Priceless-

And upgrade of processor is not a valid option since it is a cpu/gpu built into an all in one .

Or you should be stuck with something they don't like then?

If the system lags that a simple case of a problem between chair and keyboard or HW failure.

Otherwise, yes to all.

Don't like it? Send it back while it is still in warranty.

If some idiot didn't research say the fact that you cannot upgrade a laptop's CPU, no one is to blame except that idiot.

I mean, you buy things by looking for qualities you want and reading reviews.

If the system lags that a simple case of a problem between chair and keyboard or HW failure.

Otherwise, yes to all.

Don't like it? Send it back while it is still in warranty.

Hhhe

If some idiot didn't research say the fact that you cannot upgrade a laptop's CPU, no one is to blame except that idiot.

I mean, you buy things by looking for qualities you want and reading reviews.

He bought it because it was the latest and he later found he did not liike win8. The reviews were good on it 9/10 liked it. He liked everthing but the os.

If the system lags that a simple case of a problem between chair and keyboard or HW failure.

Otherwise, yes to all.

Don't like it? Send it back while it is still in warranty.

Hhhe

If some idiot didn't research say the fact that you cannot upgrade a laptop's CPU, no one is to blame except that idiot.

I mean, you buy things by looking for qualities you want and reading reviews.

He bought it because it was the latest and he later found he did not liike win8. The reviews were good on it 9/10 liked it. He liked everthing but the os.

There are a number of fringe cases where in 8 performs significantly worse than 7 on certain hardware configurations.

In particular there are a number of issues with how the OS communicates with storage devices that causes repeated interrupts and makes the OS run like proverbial ass >.>

I don't know how MS buggered that one up tbh D:

I assume certain storage driver models were deprecated (the ones that call your devices SCSI for example) though I have no direct experience with this. It also may have just been a bug that was fixed already. Network drivers were similarly disappointing at launch and I can't say what's up with that, had to change mine from the defaults as fast as possible.

I still have an awful experience with a lot of current antivirus programs I've tried in 8 too with WinRT apps loading incredibly slow and such, and I wonder if other people are lashing out about that.

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I made a second Storage Pool using TRAID on two 4TB MP44Q SSDs (which, in this instance, is similar to RAID 5), and finally, I added the 250GB 970 Evo Plus drive as Hyper Cache on Storage Pool 1 in Balanced mode. Registering If you decide not to lock down the F4-425 Pro in Security Isolation Mode (blocking all external connections), then you could set up a TNAS device ID through the Remote Access setting in the Control Panel (which must be unique). This works in combination with an online TerraMaster account. TOS 7 TNAS Online Creating a TerraMaster account and linking the device online activates the warranty when you provide proof of purchase and the serial number, but it also gives you access through the TNAS mobile app, which allows you to complete certain operationsб including powering off and restarting the NAS remotely. A TNAS mobile update is required to gain access through TOS 7, and this is provided on the TerraMaster website, as it is not yet on Google Play. The app is evolving all the time and has made leaps and bounds since I first started reviewing TerraMaster devices almost three years ago. It is not quite there yet if you are comparing the likes of Synology, which, sadly, a lot of users online do all the time. OpenClaw setup One of the main selling points of the new F4-425 Pro is the inclusion of OpenClaw, with TerraMaster claiming that it is "powered by the world's first AI-native TOS 7 OS, supporting local-first smart workflows and independent data control." However, I immediately ran into problems trying to enable OpenClaw. After waiting 20 minutes at the "Enabling" message of the OpenClaw app following installation, I decided to do some searching online and discovered that it couldn't complete the installation process due to SPC being enabled, which is something TOS 7 immediately recommends to be enabled on first boot. SPC for NAS (TOS 7) is basically the same principle as UAC in Windows; it blocks executables from being launched by non-Super Users. After reaching out to my contact about these issues, I received the following response: Anyway, this only became clear when I closed the OpenClaw app screen and clicked on the OpenClaw icon in the taskbar; that is when I saw the message about disabling SPC. I think, due to the fact that this is a requirement, this should be a prompt during the installation process, not when closing the App Market and then trying to launch OpenClaw. There's also no 'Getting started' guide for people like me who have never used OpenClaw. I tried to add an LLM and discovered the tutorial led nowhere. That's when I started looking around the official TerraMaster forums, and I found a guide that helpfully explains that you won't get anywhere with OpenClaw unless you have a paid plan, which is disappointing because I imagined there would be an option to use a local LLM as I do in SubtitleEdit with Whisper-XXL. In addition, with the marketing imagery on the official site, it says that the OpenClaw feature is "all processed 100% locally for absolute privacy." which led me to believe that I could install a local LLM, not one that required paid tokens. In any case, TerraMaster does not provide guidance for this new feature, which was also a selling point of the F4-425 Pro! My contact also provided clarification about the above points I raised with TerraMaster Since it is not in the scope of the review to add paid services, I'll leave that to the people who are more qualified with OpenClaw. F4-425 Pro Surveillance App TOS also comes with a Surveillance app, which is not installed by default; it can be found in the App Market recommended section. In addition, after installing, it doesn't drop a shortcut on the Desktop or top taskbar, but you can "Send to Desktop" from the App Market listing for the app for a quick way to open it. Adding my Reolink POE doorbell camera was painless. TerraMaster doesn't appear to have a repository of preconfigured cameras; instead, the camera must be added using ONVIF or RTSP. No mobile Surveillance app TerraMaster still doesn't have a dedicated Surveillance app, although from searching online, Surveillance can be used and managed through the TNAS mobile app. I tried this with the updated TNAS mobile app beta in combination with TOS 7 and got a message that Surveillance was "Only accessible through web browser," so I reckon this must be limited to the stable versions of TOS 6 and the mobile app. More quirks In addition, whenever I minimized the Live View window in the browser Surveillance app, the feed appeared to switch to the Low-bandwidth stream, and there was no way to get the High-quality stream back. To get the High-quality stream back, I had to close Live View and then reopen it. Benchmarking A pretty cool feature of the TOS 7 is that it allows you to install directly to the NVMe M.2 SSD. In order to do that, you would have to leave out any HDDs during initialization, and even then, the system partitions are always written to two HDDs when they are eventually added. With three NVMe slots, this also gives an interesting scenario where you could build a TRAID storage Pool for installing all your apps and Docker on, and keep the third for SSD cache on the HDD pool. Limitless options! SATA PCIe 3.0 X1 A CrystalDiskMark test on a mapped network drive from within a Windows 11 25H2 PC (image above) connected over a 5 GbE hub was well within acceptable ranges. Although the read result on SATA was a little less than with the F4-425 Plus, for some reason, while writes were generally better. SATA PCIe 3.0 X1 I also ran the NAS Performance tester, which tests the link speed performance. As you can see, it pretty much maxes out the 5GbE connection. Of course, you can also opt to bond the two 5 GbE connections for a bit more umph, but I didn't do that. TOS 7, which, as of testing, is still in Beta, comes with an App Center that has a bunch of handy programs you can install right off the bat, such as Emby, Plex, Docker, as well as in-house Backup and Surveillance solutions. As you can imagine, any media streaming services you would want to host off the F4-425 Pro will work great, thanks to the Intel Core N350 CPU and its 16 GB of DDR5 memory. Accessing from mobile is only possible if Security Isolation Mode is disabled, which can put your NAS at risk from external sources, so there was no way to access it from the TNAS Mobile app. It's also quiet. I had this sat next to my computer on my work desk for the past week, and I did wonder if the noise I was accustomed to with NAS devices would annoy me, but all I could hear was a soft whirring of the rear fan (which was a little annoying) when the disks were not actively copying or reading data. Conclusion So what have I learned? Unfortunately, this release raises a few important questions and concerns that I feel haven't been adequately addressed. What I didn't like Our variant shipped with TOS 7 beta, and it's advised not to use it in a production environment. I feel that's a bit limiting on an $800 device. The mobile app is also still in beta and does not support some of the first-party apps, like Surveillance, and it still has quite a few bugs. I am a bit confused about the OpenClaw marketing along with the F4-425 Pro. I feel like that if it's going to be a main selling point, then offer official guidance on how to get started with it. TerraMaster recommends enabling SPC, but then markets the NAS for use with OpenClaw, which requires disabling SPC to be able to use it, opening up genuine security concerns for the NAS; and that's before you get into the security concerns of OpenClaw itself. Of course, the above issues won't be a problem if you decide to install something else on it, or even go back to the stable TOS 6. I wish TerraMaster had just given TOS 7 as opt-in rather than shipping with it. TOS 7 has been available as a preview since December 2025 (so well before my last TerraMaster review), and according to a thread on Reddit where a user shared a screenshot from the TerraMaster Facebook page, it is scheduled to launch today, June 23, but there's nothing about that in the TerraMaster news blog. My contact confirmed over email that TOS 7 exits beta today. The rubber feet also deserve a mention as they continue to be a problem, with them coming unstuck the moment you shift the F4-425 Pro anywhere on your desk. What I liked What it comes down to, though, aside from what I already mentioned, you are still getting a quality, affordable device here, so recommending it will depend on the individual's use case. If you're just looking for a relatively small NAS device to manage virtual machines on, backup your files, and take care of your home theater streaming, then it is a great device that will certainly futureproof you for some time. It provides good performance, takes up little space, and is, on the whole, very quiet. Four bays afford proper redundancy using TRAID or RAID 5, and you can even expand on storage capacity by adding the 2-bay D5, or 4-bay D8 Hybrid DAS over a USB 3.2 (10Gbps) link. Considering the 2024 releases were more about power, with the likes of an Intel Core i5-1235U high-end laptop CPU under the hood, I asked my contact last time if we could expect more of the same in higher-end models and was told: It makes a lot of sense to use Intel's N350 chip inside a NAS; it is more than capable of doing what the F4-425 Pro is intended for, media streaming and backup. The only downside is still the clear lack of community and even staff support on the official forums. In the past, I have had topics go unanswered for days, or there would be generic-type "we've noted this and passed it onto our developer team" type responses. Along with the other things I mentioned, it all ends up costing it a couple of points. If you are comfortable with the command line, Docker, and setting up TrueNAS or Unraid, you'll be fine. You can do great things with this hardware. In TOS, the apps are a bit lacking, and things don't always work as expected.\ AI NAS?! What has become clear to me this year is that we are going to start seeing all kinds of "AI NAS" come to market, and while that might be good for us consumers, be diligent and research these claims. Although the F4-425 Pro technically comes with AI, it is really using a cloud service that is externally sourced off-device through the third party OpenClaw app. My colleague did review a newcomer to the NAS space earlier this year, and it includes a local AI assistant inside the Zettlab D4 NAS, and they do not even use AI in the product name, check out Chris' review here. Where to buy and a discount coupon However, it does not change the fact that this is truly a great entry-level home media-class NAS that you can buy right now. TerraMaster is having a 20% off launch discount, plus you can also still apply our unique 10% off coupon on checkout, which only works on the official website. So here is a breakdown of the pricing that is only valid on the official TerraMaster website. TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N350) + 20% discount + 10% coupon = $575.99 TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N305) + 20% discount + 10% coupon = $503.99 TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N350) + 20% discount + 10% coupon = £525.59 TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N305) + 20% discount + 10% coupon = £460.79 Use NEOWIN coupon code during checkout for 10% discount Over on Amazon US and UK, the F4-425 Pro also gets a 20% launch discount, but here, the above 10% coupon cannot be applied. TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N350) for $639.99 at Amazon US (was $799.99) TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N305) for $559.99 at Amazon US (was $699.99) TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N350) for £583.99 at Amazon UK (was £729.99) TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N305) for £511.99 at Amazon UK (was £639.99) As an Amazon Associate, when you purchase through links on our site, we earn from qualifying purchases.
    • well you can add a GPU for around $500, that's still around the price of Steam Machine but overall significantly better in performance.
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