(Honest) Personal thoughts about windows 8 and MS in general

[Salgoth]

I can't believe MS has lasted this long. The "need" for almost anything being placed on a local machine and not being streamed, should have been changed already. Eventually, there will only be the need for updating the OS as a cached browser in itself. Sharing any kind of media will eventually be a subscribed connection, because easy and cheap always wins when there are existing choices that do the same things for most buyers. Companies could gain in the past when they were not forced to replace computers as often as they must now. Cost and connectivity will drive everything, and MS knows it.

Not from my perspective. I lose at least 8 hours a week because various factors cause remote applications and content to be unavailable - a business can't afford that lost time and productivity nor can any kind of mission critical system.

When a snowstorm in Virginia can shut down an office in southern Missouri because they can't acces their streamed applications or stored data you have created the perfect situation to kill a business.

Streamed applications are fine for home use - but to put all your faith - and your companies earnings - into streaming applications and the "cloud" is just plain stupid.

[joemailey]

I'm by no means an Apple fan, the only time I touch a Mac is in work when our designer has an issue.(we only have 1 mac, we're full windows 7 and soon to be fully office 2013 once I roll it out to 300users)

Recently we bought a new 27" iMac running the latest version of OSX. All I can say is woah Apple have got the OS right.

I spent a week with the iMac and OSX and the more I used it the more I noticed iOS features appear on it and the gestures you can do using the wireless track/touch pad.

iMessage, launchpad, facetime, settings icon looks like the one on iOS. just simple tweaks to the OSX that slowly add iOS features to the OS, I bet version 11 will have an overhaul and not to far away you will probably see iMacs with touchscreen once they become cheap enough for apple to make a hire margin in there awful prices lol

That is the way Microsoft should have went, establish your tablet market, make windows 7 better and quicker. take the best features of your tablet and phone OS and slowly add them to windows. I don't and probably never will understand why they have forced all desktop and laptop users down the touch interface route. It doesn't make sense to me. Obviously when you look at google and apple they have took the phone OS and made it a tablet OS. It is working for both of those companies, why did M$ feel they could go down a different route and expect everyone to just accept it.

A Director I work with, got a new laptop for home just before christmas that had windows 8 on it, he hated it. but decided to use it. I asked him how he was getting on at the beginning of March and he said its ok and he was getting use to it. He came to me 2-3 weeks after that short conversation and asked me to install which ever OS came before Microsoft changed to be touch friendly as it was frustrating to use. I stuck windows 7 on it and he's happy. That is an indication of how much some people dislike it, after 3-4months he still could get use to it and still didn't like it.

When I've used windows 8, it just feels like I'm using a horrible skin on top of the main OS. Only thing is I can't remove the damn thing.

[MorganX]

Only when you drop onto the desktop. At that point it's not touch friendly and if you spend all of your time there you might as well buy a laptop. When you are in Metro it's like using the WP8 OS.

Affirmative. But The d-Matrix is correct, the W8RT does have more capability. However, there are no apps that take advantage. There's One Note MX, but it's a note taking app. It's going to have its group of users.

That's what's wrong with the Modern UI wherever it exists, no apps making it meaningful. Even MS' core Modern UI apps are weak. Consumers aren't really interested in Office 2013 on their tablet. The platform doesn't even have the original Angry Birds. Doesn't have the awesome I MAED A GAM3 W1TH Z0MBIES 1N IT!!!1. Though WP8 does. The old MS would have made sure they helped this independent dev have it ready for the Windows 8 Launch.

Dino Games the small dev that made Valgard's Fate for Zune, was never able to bring it to WP7 or WP8. This would have been a great app to subsidize. I would have bought it on site: http://www.zunester.com/valgards-fate-zune-wip-3/

Given W8's lackluster receptions, all those millions of ads should have been spent getting apps and games on the Modern UI.

/opinion

[MorganX]

It would also be nice to see the right-click menu developed,

Doesn't MS believe this is a dated UI element that isn't suited to modern computing? There's no right-click on iPad or Android .... ;>

[theyarecomingforyou]

Doesn't MS believe this is a dated UI element that isn't suited to modern computing? There's no right-click on iPad or Android .... ;>

I mean the right-click menu they specifically added in Windows 8 (I don't remember the correct name for it). We're not going to right-click menus disappear any time soon, though they may be complemented through the Charm Bar or other Metro elements. It's strange that Microsoft went to the effort of adding the menu but never thought to put the power options in there, as that would have been a great place to put them.

[PGHammer]

Of course you would disagree with him, you've shown that you can't be objective about Windows 8 in the slightest. Windows 8 can do no wrong.

In my case of hating on Windows 8, I can still find good things to say about it.

The start screen is great on tablets.

I love the new Explorer UI.

I like the new new check mark box to show hidden items right there on the ribbon.

I like the file copy dialog box.

However, you are quite happy to *pigeonhole* Windows 8 due to it having better touch support (or at least more obvious touch support) than Windows 7.

Nobody that has spoken in favor of 8 disputes that it has better touch support than Windows 7 - not even me, and I have no touch support on my desktop at all, and zero interest in adding any.

However, here's the surprise - that those of you that are throwing brickbats at ModernUI have refused to even look at - ModernUI's touch support is NOT at the expense of mice, or keyboards.

In fact, I haven't found so much as a single ModernUI app, game, etc, that doesn't support mice and keyboards. (Even the two quintessential Windows 8 games - Cut the Rope and Fruit Ninja - have solid - rock-solid, in fact - MOUSE support.)

In fact, Windows 8 has better support for mice than the current version of Android - not exactly surprising, as Android started as a touch-ONLY operating system.

The anti-8 pundits refuse to see the forest because they are concentrating on the touch-support tree. It's a bigger tree, I'll admit - but the whole forest (or even a significant part of the forest) it isn't.

[BajiRav]

I'm by no means an Apple fan, the only time I touch a Mac is in work when our designer has an issue.(we only have 1 mac, we're full windows 7 and soon to be fully office 2013 once I roll it out to 300users)

Recently we bought a new 27" iMac running the latest version of OSX. All I can say is woah Apple have got the OS right.

I spent a week with the iMac and OSX and the more I used it the more I noticed iOS features appear on it and the gestures you can do using the wireless track/touch pad.

iMessage, launchpad, facetime, settings icon looks like the one on iOS. just simple tweaks to the OSX that slowly add iOS features to the OS, I bet version 11 will have an overhaul and not to far away you will probably see iMacs with touchscreen once they become cheap enough for apple to make a hire margin in there awful prices lol

That is the way Microsoft should have went, establish your tablet market, make windows 7 better and quicker. take the best features of your tablet and phone OS and slowly add them to windows. I don't and probably never will understand why they have forced all desktop and laptop users down the touch interface route. It doesn't make sense to me. Obviously when you look at google and apple they have took the phone OS and made it a tablet OS. It is working for both of those companies, why did M$ feel they could go down a different route and expect everyone to just accept it.

A Director I work with, got a new laptop for home just before christmas that had windows 8 on it, he hated it. but decided to use it. I asked him how he was getting on at the beginning of March and he said its ok and he was getting use to it. He came to me 2-3 weeks after that short conversation and asked me to install which ever OS came before Microsoft changed to be touch friendly as it was frustrating to use. I stuck windows 7 on it and he's happy. That is an indication of how much some people dislike it, after 3-4months he still could get use to it and still didn't like it.

When I've used windows 8, it just feels like I'm using a horrible skin on top of the main OS. Only thing is I can't remove the damn thing.

Isn't the launch pad on new osx essentially a "tablet ui" on the desktop? Microsoft did exactly what you said they should do - took the live tiles and put them in Windows. They need to refine it obviously but I still fail to understand why you think Windows 8 is a touch only UI. The criticism of Windows 8 puzzles me, some people say it is forcing a touch UI, some say it has a "jarring" or "hostile" UI.

I personally believe it is a good compromise from both sides (desktop & tablet) and allows you to use whatever suites the device it is running on. It is not perfect but it is not a disaster either.

[PGHammer]

Isn't the launch pad on new osx essentially a "tablet ui" on the desktop? Microsoft did exactly what you said they should do - took the live tiles and put them in Windows. They need to refine it obviously but I still fail to understand why you think Windows 8 is a touch only UI. The criticism of Windows 8 puzzles me, some people say it is forcing a touch UI, some say it has a "jarring" or "hostile" UI.

I personally believe it is a good compromise from both sides (desktop & tablet) and allows you to use whatever suites the device it is running on. It is not perfect but it is not a disaster either.

Baji, 8 is FAR from a disaster. The bigger issue is that 8 is *different* in two major ways - touch support is more obvious, and the Start menu - which has been part and parcel of Windows in its entirety (except for niches) since NT4WS/9x, is gone.

First things first - touch support. While it's more obvious, in what way is it at the expense of mice? Every ModernUI app, game, utility, etc. that I've ever used - whether they are still on my PC or not - supports mice. No exceptions. If ModernUI were so touch-centric, that would supposedly be not merely improbable, but impossible. Yet it's no more improbable (or impossible) in Windows 8 than it is in Android, which BEGAN as not merely touch-centric, but touch-ONLY. If Android can embrace mice, why can't Windows embrace touch? (Would you say that Android LOST any touch support with either Ice Cream Sandwich or Jellybean?)

The other difference is that the Start menu has concluded its presence in Windows - not merely desktops, but it's not even in the server closet any more, as Server 2012, from Essentials to Datacenter, is entirely Start menu-free. While USERS have been moaning and groaning over the Start menu's demise (enough to spawn a cottage industry of utilities that mimic it - both free and fee), can anyone name so much as ONE Win32 application that requires it? I can't - and I brought all my applications and games (and a good number of utilities) with me from 7 to 8. Number that relied on the Start menu - none. Even though every installer for every Win32 application or game (and most of my utilities) made reference to it, not so much as one actually required it. In other words, the application base - even the application base going all the way back to Windows XP - could, in fact, give two figs about the Start menu. A person can live without their appendix - in fact, a person can live without their appendix AND their gallbladder. Appendectomies were a more common surgery of the generation previous to mine than in my own generation; the same is true of lapidectomies (gallbladder excision - usually due to massive gallstone-related damage to the point of gallbladder failure) - while I still have my appendix, I lost my gallbladder at the age of forty-four due to precisely that reason. And I miss the Start menu as much as I miss my gallbladder. Those that complain about the Start menu being gone - or touch being more obvious in Windows 8 - remind me - in a very BAD way - of gangbangers fighting over turf.

[Growled Member]

When I've used windows 8, it just feels like I'm using a horrible skin on top of the main OS. Only thing is I can't remove the damn thing.

I don't really mind the start screen. It's a good idea actually. I hate the tiles. If Microsoft had stuck to icons I think they might have had much more success, even with some of the other annoyances found in Windows 8. People get icons.

[Dot Matrix]

I don't really mind the start screen. It's a good idea actually. I hate the tiles. If Microsoft had stuck to icons I think they might have had much more success, even with some of the other annoyances found in Windows 8. People get icons.

Ugh. Static icons. It's a good thing they're not. Static icons are so 1995. It's not 1995 anymore. Apple and Google seem to have missed that memo.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

That "few lines of code" change is what I am calling as porting. Why would you even have to do that? Why not write once and it works on all devices?

They came in late and had the chance to make the experience seamless for both users and devs which is not there yet. I know they are working on it but currently the experience does feel disjointed.

because that leads to what is one of the biggest complaints with Android. phone size apps just being scaled to fit on tablet screens instead of actually being optimized (iOS suffers from this as well though not as much do to more dedicated developers)

[Growled Member]

Ugh. Static icons. It's a good thing they're not. Static icons are so 1995. It's not 1995 anymore. Apple and Google seem to have missed that memo.

Or maybe they are giving us users what we want. Based on sales on anything Windows 8 a lot of people feel like me.

[Dot Matrix]

Or maybe they are giving us users what we want. Based on sales on anything Windows 8 a lot of people feel like me.

Live tiles are not certainly causing issues. They're highly innovative, and not something someone else utilizes.

[Growled Member]

Live tiles are not certainly causing issues. They're highly innovative, and not something someone else utilizes.

I'm glad you like them but I hate them and would never use them. Different strokes for different folks. :)

[+Warwagon MVC]

I'm glad you like them but I hate them and would never use them. Different strokes for different folks. :)

Exactly. He's a Microsoft PR Bot I swear!

[SharpGreen]

Exactly. He's a Microsoft PR Bot I swear!

Or someone who (like myself) really likes Windows 8. I'd be willing to bet that he (also like myself) is not employed by MS. Though I would mind a job offer from them :p

Baji, 8 is FAR from a disaster. The bigger issue is that 8 is *different* in two major ways - touch support is more obvious, and the Start menu - which has been part and parcel of Windows in its entirety (except for niches) since NT4WS/9x, is gone.

First things first - touch support. While it's more obvious, in what way is it at the expense of mice? Every ModernUI app, game, utility, etc. that I've ever used - whether they are still on my PC or not - supports mice. No exceptions. If ModernUI were so touch-centric, that would supposedly be not merely improbable, but impossible. Yet it's no more improbable (or impossible) in Windows 8 than it is in Android, which BEGAN as not merely touch-centric, but touch-ONLY. If Android can embrace mice, why can't Windows embrace touch? (Would you say that Android LOST any touch support with either Ice Cream Sandwich or Jellybean?)

The other difference is that the Start menu has concluded its presence in Windows - not merely desktops, but it's not even in the server closet any more, as Server 2012, from Essentials to Datacenter, is entirely Start menu-free. While USERS have been moaning and groaning over the Start menu's demise (enough to spawn a cottage industry of utilities that mimic it - both free and fee), can anyone name so much as ONE Win32 application that requires it? I can't - and I brought all my applications and games (and a good number of utilities) with me from 7 to 8. Number that relied on the Start menu - none. Even though every installer for every Win32 application or game (and most of my utilities) made reference to it, not so much as one actually required it. In other words, the application base - even the application base going all the way back to Windows XP - could, in fact, give two figs about the Start menu. A person can live without their appendix - in fact, a person can live without their appendix AND their gallbladder. Appendectomies were a more common surgery of the generation previous to mine than in my own generation; the same is true of lapidectomies (gallbladder excision - usually due to massive gallstone-related damage to the point of gallbladder failure) - while I still have my appendix, I lost my gallbladder at the age of forty-four due to precisely that reason. And I miss the Start menu as much as I miss my gallbladder. Those that complain about the Start menu being gone - or touch being more obvious in Windows 8 - remind me - in a very BAD way - of gangbangers fighting over turf.

QFT. Though I wouldn't exactly compare them to gangbangers, just that its proof of lazyness.

[Dot Matrix]

Exactly. He's a Microsoft PR Bot I swear!

[Growled Member]

Exactly. He's a Microsoft PR Bot I swear!

Didn't your mother ever tell you not to swear? :p

Nothing wrong with being passionate about what you like. :)

[Gerowen]

To be honest, I have no room to really criticize Windows 8. I've used it on a few rare occasions while fixing a computer, but I haven't ran a Windows operating system on any of my home computers for several years now. We dabbled in 7 when it first came out because I bought a new desktop, but that lasted about a month before my wife asked me to nuke it and put Ubuntu on it. However, I work on computers for friends and family members all the time. I've installed Linux distros on 2 or 3 of their computers, and since starting that I've noticed a pattern. The only time I ever see one of the Linux computers is when it starts prompting them to "Upgrade" instead of just install updates, and they bring it to me to do the upgrade and make sure everything still works fine afterward. I see the Windows computers however, Windows XP, 7 and 8, fairly regularly to remove crapware gallore that somehow ended up on their systems. Besides horrible file organization, the linux laptops are always running full steam ahead as good as the day I set it up for them. I think a lot of the "hatred" for Windows 8 though (again, not speaking with much experience, just going off what I've heard and seen) is not necessarily centered around its ability to perform certain tasks, but moreso around "change". That's one thing about many of Microsoft's products that bugs me. With every new version of MS Office I've got to sit down, learn it, then re-train everybody on how to find everything when they get around to upgrading because their user interfaces aren't consistent between versions. They don't just augment the new versions with smoother, higher resolution graphics and optimize existing menus, they have a bad habit of totally changing things around so novice computer users trying to write an e-mail or make a powerpoint with pictures of their grand-kids get totally lost trying to just log into their computer.

As far as my opinion of Microsoft, I'm of two minds. They obviously employ very talented people, and I admire the charity work of Mr. Bill Gates. Windows is the market leader, partly due to good marketing and corporate decision making (partnerships with PC manufacturers), and partly due to the fact that for an intelligent person, Windows is not terrible (At least up until 7, I don't have much experience with 8). They seem to be good to their employees and provide great benefits. Where I dislike them as a company is their attitude toward software freedom. I don't have a problem with paying for software if I think it's good and worth the price, but what I hate is paying for an operating system, and having certain parts of it locked out, or not having access to the source code. If I want to tweak the OS, recompile a custom kernel, etc., I should have full, untethered access to that capability without being told I have to upgrade to "Linux Professional" to unlock it. I'm generally not a fan of DRM and similar business techniques to try and juice more and more money out of people. I had to write a script to modify the registry on my mom's netbook because Windows 7 "Starter" edition has the ability to change your wallpaper removed. That's the kind of crap I hate. I feel like if I pay for a product, I want ALL of the product, including its source code so I can do whatever I need to do with it for it to serve my needs.

[Emon]

because that leads to what is one of the biggest complaints with Android. phone size apps just being scaled to fit on tablet screens instead of actually being optimized (iOS suffers from this as well though not as much do to more dedicated developers)

I said it before and I am saying it again .. they came in late so they knew these issues with other vendors and they had the chance to implement the app development process seamless. Instead they have introduced yet another mess.

The Metro/Modern UI paradigm by default supports this panorama concept so technically any Win8/WinPhone8 app (regardless of their platform) should scale to fit any screen. Believe me I am no Window/MS hater .. I bleed "Windows" :) (cheesy I know but I just wanted to prove a point). I just wish they fix this mess soon and maybe that's what they are doing in "Blue" initiative.

[BajiRav]

I'm glad you like them but I hate them and would never use them. Different strokes for different folks. :)

I think the support for smaller "tiles" in Blue should help people like you (similar to WP8)

[Growled Member]

I think the support for smaller "tiles" in Blue should help people like you (similar to WP8)

I'm not sure but I am willing to wait and see.

[Jooshuaa]

Window 8 is only good if you are running it on a touchscreen.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Window 8 is only good if you are running it on a touchscreen.

and that is completely untrue (aka only your opinion)

[Growled Member]

I was at Sam's today and I played with a Windows 8 desktop computer on a 27" monitor and I was like wow, this is nice. I'm not in the mood for a desktop but if I was I sure would have gotten it. It was much nicer than my old 19" for sure.