Indie Developers Won

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

The solo and small-team game-makers who?ve made games like Fez, Braid and Limbo won?t be able to control their own destinies on Microsoft?s next game console, according to a Shack News report.

The article quotes Matt Booty, who is Microsoft?s general manager of Redmond Game Studios and Platforms, as confirming that indie devs will still need publishers to get their games onto the newly revealed console. Booty does say that Microsoft will explore new business models, though.

This news comes in stark contrast to Sony?s promises that indies will be able to self-publish content on the PS4. The publisher model, of course, means that some other entity has to decide whether to take a risk on helping get a game on a console and that someone else gets a cut of profits.

Looking back on it now, the Xbox Live Indie Games space wound up becoming a neglected ghetto for creators trying to find an audience. The energy that that scene once held migrated to mobile and has blossomed PC, where platforms like Steam let creators chart their own way. One thing that?s enabled indie creations to find success has been the ability to set and change release windows and prices as they see fit. No need to charge more money to ensure multiple partners get a cut and no need to rush out a game that still needs polish because someone else says you have to.

Source: http://kotaku.com/in...-xbox-509271999

After everything Sony announced with the PS4 and indies (Nintendo too even allow it with WiiU now), WHY are MS still following this route?

[neufuse Veteran]

probably the real reason they killed off XNA was this..... I liked XNA, wish they would of continued it....

[F_C]

Seems crazy not to allow RT apps.

[Torolol]

WHY are MS still following this route?

chronic stupidity going on?

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Indie devs chip in

Phil Fish, Polytron

?What a giant load of **** that was! All buzzwords! They talked for an hour and basically said nothing. What does ?always ready? mean??

?There was absolutely nothing relevant to me in that presser. Nothing about digital distribution or indies. Nothing at all.?

Brian Provinciano, Vblank Entertainment

?Their intention from the first Xbox was to own the living room, and the evolution of the 360 showed this trajectory in motion. The Xbox One is them realizing this vision. The problem is, they?re leaving core gamers behind. You would?ve thought that the reaction to their E3 2012 press conference would?ve been a wake up call, but they?re on a different course. They see more money in general entertainment, media and ads than core gamers. They see dollar signs with subscription fees. They want the revenue stream that cable providers and phone carriers have been enjoying. I?m certain that the Xbox One will launch with the base price plus a 2 ? 3 year contract. The unfortunate thing about this is that many consumers will be fooled by the lower price point, even though they?ll end up paying more in the long run.

?They?re preaching TV services to gamers and gamer press, the exact group of people who will be least receptive to it. Microsoft?s direction isn?t in line with E3, it?s in line with CES.

?Despite delaying their announcement a month, they still failed to capitalize on the opportunity to recalibrate after the PS4 announcement. I?m quite surprised by how limited their attempts were to one-up the PS4.

?Prior to this conference, I was expecting that at least during the E3 presentation, Microsoft would pander to indies in some way. They remain the only platform which prevents self-publishing. I wouldn?t expect anything other than just talk from them, but I was expecting them to address indies nonetheless. However, after this, I could see them leaving indies out completely. After all, they have their eye on the average consumer, not the core gamer. Average consumers aren?t as versed in the ?indie? game scene.?

James Silva, Ska Studios

?As a consumer, I?m excited. We use an Xbox 360 as an entertainment hub anyway, so getting a more robust, snappier version of that is a win. And lag-free Kinect is something I really, really wanted the instant Kinect 1.0 debuted, so that?s great.

?As a developer of semi-simple 2D indie games, I?m looking forward to playing with one, though our style isn?t going anywhere ? it?ll just end up with some more gratuitously excessive particle systems.?

Ben Kane, Going Loud Studios

?While it wasn?t the content I hoped to learn about, I do accept that Microsoft?s living room strategy has many facets beyond gaming, and that?s what today was about. I?ll wait to hear more about Xbox Live, digital distribution, the marketplace, and where indies fit in. I don?t think there was a message here for indie developers, but I also don?t read anything nefarious from that. The presentation was simply directed at a different aspect of ?living room entertainment.?

?An Xbox Live Indie Games successor, whether direct (a premium-but-open service where anyone can make and sell games) or spiritual (a more open XBLA-style partnership hopefully with a much lower barrier for entry) would be at the top of my list for things I?d like to see at the E3 presentation.?

Philip Tibitoski, Young Horses

?As an indie and developer the Xbox One reveal didn?t really say anything to me. The stuff with fantasy sports is cool and all, but I was more interested in seeing how the marketplace/store might have changed or how discovery was being handled. This reveal was for a different audience and I?ll be interested to see what they talk about at E3 when they?re ready to talk software.

?Are they opening up avenues for smaller developers? We?ve seen efforts from the other big players like Steam Greenlight, or what Sony has been up to with PS3 and Vita, or even the recent announcements of PS4 indies like Hohokum. Mobile is open and Sony is opening up while making developer-related processes more simplistic to focus on games. What exactly is Microsoft planning for this to be on parity with others? I can?t tell from what they?ve revealed so far, except that there are smaller developers shown in the opening video reel.?

Rami Ismail, Vlambeer

?We think it?s interesting that Microsoft is taking the Xbox away from gaming as its core business, but it was sort of weird watching this event go down. We did see some indie developers in the opening video, so there obviously is an indie strategy somewhere, but I don?t think we know a thing about Xbox One and gaming ? they still have to show their hand with regards to that at E3. The whole presentation felt sort of awkward, but the D-pad looks really nice. Sadly, at this point the thing we?re looking forward to most for the Xbox One is Skype on our TV.?

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/05/21/microsofts-message-to-indies-with-xbox-one-it-was-sort-of-wei/

[BajiRav]

So I guess Microsoft put this on their website for nothing...

Source: http://www.buildwindows.com/Announcement

[neufuse Veteran]

too many people jumping to conclusions... this was just the "hey we are here" announcement, E3 will be the real event

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

So I guess Microsoft put this on their website for nothing...

Source: http://www.buildwind...om/Announcement

We're talking about self publishing here, not developing or releasing indie games.

Another indie dev, that of Toki Tori 2

Why are they unhappy? Spoke earlier about self-publishing issues.

[neufuse Veteran]

We're talking about self publishing here, not developing or releasing indie games.

Another indie dev, that of Toki Tori 2

Why are they unhappy? Spoke earlier about self-publishing issues.

They are just PS fans?

[BajiRav]

We're talking about self publishing here, not developing or releasing indie games.

Another indie dev, that of Toki Tori 2

Why are they unhappy? Spoke earlier about self-publishing issues.

I fail to understand your differentiation between self publishing and indie games. Isn't self publishing same as what goes in say iOS App Store? When did Microsoft said they won't allow indie games or they have no plans for self publishing?

Why quote a developer who has not done any Xbox games in the past?

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

I fail to understand your differentiation between self publishing and indie games. Isn't self publishing same as what goes in say iOS App Store? When did Microsoft said they won't allow indie games or they have no plans for self publishing?

Why quote a developer who has not done any Xbox games in the past?

You don't know what self-publishing means? It means they can put their game on XBL without having to find a middle-man publisher. Some of these games are made by 1 person, or a handful. They aren't publishers.... they're developers.

MS don't like that, and if you want MS to publish, you need to give them a 1 year exclusive on your game.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Microsoft has never had an indie friendly business model, so I can't say I'm surprised. If Sony aligns itself with indies and doesn't restrict the gaming experience as heavily as Microsoft then that will give it a huge advantage going into the next-generation.

[spudtrooper]

You don't know what self-publishing means? It means they can put their game on XBL without having to find a middle-man publisher. Some of these games are made by 1 person, or a handful. They aren't publishers.... they're developers.

MS don't like that, and if you want MS to publish, you need to give them a 1 year exclusive on your game.

Microsoft was the first to allow self publishing with XNA.. maybe it proved unviable or maybe they're doing something different. Who knows. We won't find out until Build and E3. Too early to assume anything but based on Facts, Microsoft has already been pretty indy friendly

do people really spend 500 bucks on a console for indy games? i mean, minecraft on the xbox 360 is absolutely amazing and its considered indy is it not? there's simply NO evidence whatsoever that MS is ignorant of the market and its changes.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Microsoft was the first to allow self publishing with XNA.. maybe it proved unviable or maybe they're doing something different. Who knows. We won't find out until Build and E3. Too early to assume anything but based on Facts, Microsoft has already been pretty indy friendly

do people really spend 500 bucks on a console for indy games? i mean, minecraft on the xbox 360 is absolutely amazing and its considered indy is it not? there's simply NO evidence whatsoever that MS is ignorant of the market and its changes.

Says all the indie developers who've been moaning about MS for the past year (and Sony), and have all been excited with Sony embracing the indie scene with the PS4?

[BajiRav]

You don't know what self-publishing means? It means they can put their game on XBL without having to find a middle-man publisher. Some of these games are made by 1 person, or a handful. They aren't publishers.... they're developers.

MS don't like that, and if you want MS to publish, you need to give them a 1 year exclusive on your game.

Xbox Live Indie Games doesn't require publishers as far as I know (XBLA does). So I guess I was right about self-publishing (iOS, GPlay, WP/W8 etc.) and as far as I know Microsoft has not said anything about it. There is a persistent rumor that they will have app store for Xbox and will discuss more at Build in June 2013. The Skype app, snapping, notification app on Xbox One etc. all point to that.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Xbox Live Indie Games doesn't require publishers as far as I know (XBLA does). So I guess I was right about self-publishing (iOS, GPlay, WP/W8 etc.) and as far as I know Microsoft has not said anything about it. There is a persistent rumor that they will have app store for Xbox and will discuss more at Build in June 2013. The Skype app, snapping, notification app on Xbox One etc. all point to that.

The indie games of value go on XBLA....

What do you mean they haven't said anything about it, it's right there in the first post about self publishing on the Xbox One. Windows/Windows Phone is irrelevant here.

[BajiRav]

The indie games of value go on XBLA....

What do you mean they haven't said anything about it, it's right there in the first post about self publishing on the Xbox One. Windows/Windows Phone is irrelevant here.

Sigh...Kotaku again doing he-said-she-said thing with this...The same sentence contradicts itself

"The article quotes Matt Booty, who is Microsoft?s general manager of Redmond Game Studios and Platforms, as confirming that indie devs will still need publishers to get their games onto the newly revealed console. Booty does say that Microsoft will explore new business models, though."

iOS/Gplay/W8/WP are relevant because they allow self publishing and I wasn't sure if that's what you meant.

So if I had to guess - you will need a publisher for putting your game on the Xbox OS but you will be able to self publish on the other OS running apps such as Skype.

[spudtrooper]

Says all the indie developers who've been moaning about MS for the past year (and Sony), and have all been excited with Sony embracing the indie scene with the PS4?

If they're willing to ignore the marketshare, they can do so at their own cost. WIth that said, I've had no lack of indy content on my xbox 360, i don't see that changing on the One. If developers want to stroke their egos and polish their hatred of all things Microsoft, that is their own fault.

I hope SOny does open things up, because i like open systems and i hope Microsoft has to compete to be just as open.

But i don't think its anywhere as bad as you suggest mostly because it hasn't been bad. Indy devs have made millions off xbox.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Sigh...Kotaku again doing he-said-she-said thing with this...The same sentence contradicts itself

"The article quotes Matt Booty, who is Microsoft?s general manager of Redmond Game Studios and Platforms, as confirming that indie devs will still need publishers to get their games onto the newly revealed console. Booty does say that Microsoft will explore new business models, though."

iOS/Gplay/W8/WP are relevant because they allow self publishing and I wasn't sure if that's what you meant.

As it stands they need publishers, there is no contradiction there. Chucking out we'll explore new business models holds little weight as it stands, 'exploring' doesn't mean much when you confirm as it stands indies need publishers.

If they're willing to ignore the marketshare, they can do so at their own cost. WIth that said, I've had no lack of indy content on my xbox 360, i don't see that changing on the One. If developers want to stroke their egos and polish their hatred of all things Microsoft, that is their own fault.

I hope SOny does open things up, because i like open systems and i hope Microsoft has to compete to be just as open.

But i don't think its anywhere as bad as you suggest mostly because it hasn't been bad. Indy devs have made millions off xbox.

We are talking about as I said sometimes individuals or teams of a handful of people... Out of their own expense it's not easy to go and find a publisher, and as I also said if you want MS to publish you need to give them a year exclusive. Ironically, that 'ignores' marketshare.

Publishers can also take big chunks of your profits, it's exactly why indie developers do not always like that business model. Mix in the stupid PS3/360 costs to patch your game, thankfully of which Sony are sorting on the PS4, and you have an indie nightmare.

[BajiRav]

As it stands they need publishers, there is no contradiction there. Chucking out we'll explore new business models holds little weight as it stands, 'exploring' doesn't mean much when you confirm as it stands indies need publishers.

We are talking about as I said sometimes individuals or teams of a handful of people... Out of their own expense it's not easy to go and find a publisher, and as I also said if MS want you to publish with them you need to give them a year exclusive. Ironically, that 'ignores' marketshare.

Uh...dude read up the article. It talks about XBLA games not XBL Indie Games. So I fail to see your point here.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Uh...dude read up the article. It talks about XBLA games not XBL Indie Games. So I fail to see your point here.

Where do the highly reputable indie games get released on, XBLA! Minecraft, Braid, Limbo are NOT getting released through XBL Indie Games. That's the kind of developers MS are annoying and Sony are embracing as it stands.

It would be a crime if MS forced publishing through XBL Indie Games considering 90% of the content is crap.

[BajiRav]

Where do the highly reputable indie games get released on, XBLA! Minecraft, Braid, Limbo are NOT getting released through XBL Indie Games. That's the kind of developers MS are annoying and Sony are embracing as it stands.

It would be a crime if MS forced publishing through XBL Indie Games considering 90% of the content is crap.

It's the developers choice to put a game on XBLA - no one forced them away from Indie games. Put your game on XBLIG, advertize it and be happy.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

It's the developers choice to put a game on XBLA - no one forced them away from Indie games. Put your game on XBLIG, advertize it and be happy.

Not any more ;)

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/124246-Microsoft-Dropping-Xbox-Live-Arcade-and-Indie-Games

Plus, seriously, any self respected highly acclaimed indie developer is not going to release a critically acclaimed title through XBLIG....

[TheLegendOfMart]

It's the developers choice to put a game on XBLA - no one forced them away from Indie games. Put your game on XBLIG, advertize it and be happy.

The old, omg no one is forcing them, retort.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Indies on Xbone: Where's the beef?

So who is making Xbox One games, then?

Of course, this could all be a smokescreen. With E3 approaching rapidly and Microsoft promising games, games, games at their big E3 reveal, perhaps indie developers will feature heavily.

From the various chats I've had with prominent indie developers over the last 24 hours, I'd say that's looking rather unlikely.

After the Wii U reveal, I contacted numerous indies to find out who was working on what, and received a large number of responses back. When the PS4 was revealed I did the same again, and received the same level of correspondence.

After the Xbox One reveal, I went ahead and did it all over again -- but the reaction has been rather different this time around. In the same space of time that I waited for responses to my Wii U and PS4 pieces, I've received just a handful of replies, most of which said they weren't working on Xbox One games.

It could be that I've simply contacted the wrong indies. My train of thought was that Microsoft is most likely going to be working with indie devs that it has worked with before, but as of yet I've come up with past Xbox 360 devs telling me they aren't working on Xbox One games (all except Trine's Frozenbyte, who told me "We keep an open channel to Microsoft and there are some thoughts going on, however right now we have nothing to announce for Xbox One.")

Even more worrying is that a number of indie devs have said that they've tried to get in on the Xbox One action, but as of yet haven't received any additional information past a simple introduction.

Rami Ismail at Dutch studio Vlambeer, for example, said that Microsoft actually got in touch with him about Xbox One development, and then never got back to him when he made contact. The Super Crate Box developer hadn't heard of any other European devs who were looking into creating Xbox One games either, and he's a fairly well connected guy.

And Young Horses' Phil Tibitoski (Octodad) had a similar experience, in which someone at Microsoft responded to a request for Xbox One development information, and then was never heard from again. It would appear that getting in contact with Microsoft to actually build games for their new console isn't exactly easy.

That's not to say that there aren't any indie developers working on Xbox One games right now. Nathan Vella of Capybara Games (Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP) featured in a video during the console's reveal, and elsewhere I've heard murmurings that Minecraft's Mojang are currently in talks with Microsoft (although Markus Persson was unable to confirm with me whether this was the case.)

And again, this could all potentially change come E3 -- perhaps Microsoft is keeping its hand to its chest, and will sprout forth many a developer when it's time to reveal the games.