xbox one DRM and Unauthorized Console modding/rooting the system Dead?

[Manarift]

I found it odd they didn't mention anything about their own drm software to protect their system from modchip or rooting the system. If their adding drm to the system there's more to it then just the software end as well.

[JaredFrost]

If anything, their current model(xbox one) will only make people try harder to break it, and when they finally do, more people will use it.

[Raa]

If anything, their current model(xbox one) will only make people try harder to break it, and when they finally do, more people will use it.

Agreed to the first half, not so sure about the second.

[JaredFrost]

Agreed to the first half, not so sure about the second.

I'm not saying more people will pirate, but more people will choose the ability to play games they've purchased offline.

[Raa]

I'm not saying more people will pirate, but more people will choose the ability to play games they've purchased offline.

I wasn't thinking about piracy at all, but the most predominant use of a hacked console is to run 3rd party software, and it's often limited to a specific (reads: power user) group of owners.

Personally I can't see how a hacked console will seriously increase the sales of said console.

[Torolol]

very likely Xbox One will employ 'SecureBoot' to prevent any usages of non standard Xbox One's OS.

so, yeah you can't repurpose the xbox one into something else, except paper weight. ;)

[Brandon H Supervisor]

very likely Xbox One will employ 'SecureBoot' to prevent any non standard Xbox One's OS.

so, yeah you can't repurpose the xbox one into something else, except paper weight. ;)

and who's to say that someone won't find a way around secure boot? ;)

i'm betting it'll happen on both windows RT and the One at some point

[Manarift]

and who's to say that someone won't find a way around secure boot? ;)

i'm betting it'll happen on both windows RT and the One at some point

Agreed sooner or later its going to get cracked

[JaredFrost]

I wasn't thinking about piracy at all, but the most predominant use of a hacked console is to run 3rd party software, and it's often limited to a specific (reads: power user) group of owners.

Personally I can't see how a hacked console will seriously increase the sales of said console.

Ahh, I guess that's where we both misunderstood, I never meant more people would use/purchase the Xbox One because it's hacked

I meant more people(percentage wise) would use the hack on their already purchased Xbox Ones.

and who's to say that someone won't find a way around secure boot? ;)

i'm betting it'll happen on both windows RT and the One at some point

Exactly, it's not a matter of if, but when.

[vcfan]

well the first part in any hacking is actually getting a dump of the software/OS. you cant possibly do anything if you don't know what and when its doing things.

as I understand it, the way the xbox360 OS dump was made was through a dev unit,which allowed access to unencrypted RAM. once the dump was made, holes were found.

the king kong exploit abused a kernel bug found by studying the dump, and used unsigned shaders in the game disc to feed data into memory to perform this hack. the jtag hack uses the gpu jtag and SMC to modify memory to perform the hack.

the RGH glitches the system when the system is doing the bootloader sig checks,and this causes the system to believe the signatures match when in reality the code is not properly signed. none of these hacks would be possible if a dump was not available.

ps3 was dumped by a hack performed in Linux,which allows people to run their own code on the system. once dumped, the first hack used a bug in the USB driver to gain access to the whole system,and this opened the floodgates to other bugs and vulnerabilities that allowed keys to be dumped,which lead to self signing and running other unsigned code. if it weren't for Linux on board, I doubt even today the ps3 is hacked.

im positive current xb1 and ps4 dev units prevent any such memory accesses and third party code is sandboxed from such sensitive areas. the general public will not be allowed to tinker and run their own code on these systems. although I believe you'll be able to run xbox rt apps, I believe this will only be open to select developers who are invited because of their work in the windows 8 store.

unless someone has access to a focused ion beam workstation and has access to chemicals,and other expensive tools to work on 40nm parts, it isn't happening. then again,if someone has access to these things,i doubt they would be hacking consoles .

[BajiRav]

although I believe you'll be able to run xbox rt apps, I believe this will only be open to select developers who are invited because of their work in the windows 8 store.

unless someone has access to a focused ion beam workstation and has access to chemicals,and other expensive tools to work on 40nm parts, it isn't happening. then again,if someone has access to these things,i doubt they would be hacking consoles .

WinRT apps are sandboxed, I hope Microsoft keeps it open access.

[vcfan]

WinRT apps are sandboxed, I hope Microsoft keeps it open access.

I hope so too,but the reason why I think it wont be open to all submissions is to keep the quality high. Or,they might make it where anyone can submit,but they will only approve at their discretion.

[Raa]

Ahh, I guess that's where we both misunderstood, I never meant more people would use/purchase the Xbox One because it's hacked

I meant more people(percentage wise) would use the hack on their already purchased Xbox Ones.

Sorry, yes you make a very good point in that regard and I do tend to agree. Obviously depending on how the hack would work of course!

[FiB3R]

Do not underestimate peoples brilliance, thirst for knowledge, and utter contempt for Microsoft. That is a powerful combination.

I give it 2 years, max

[0nyX]

Why is there a questionmark on PS2's "security" and "hacked" columns?

[FiB3R]

Don't know, I found another version of it...

Not sure what "Hacked after it was closed" means.

This should answer that.

[0nyX]

The "Hack after it was closed" was reffering to PS3 and the removal of Linux,not PS2.

[HawkMan]

Don't know, I found another version of it...

Not sure what "Hacked after it was closed" means.

This should answer that.

that table isn't entirely accurate. 360 hacked for linux and homebrew... eh no. it was hacked for piracy, I have seen noone running linux on it, and extremely little homebrew. also if the dvd drive hadn't been l?eft out of the hypervisor, it wouldn't have been hacked in the first place.

Lest gen was almost hack proof. Next gen is going to take the next step and be even harder to hack.

[Torolol]

xbox one being hacked or not also largely depend on how attractive xbox one to be hacked,

and i must agree with hawkman, I can see that MS will try to discourages any homebrew for xbox one, as that are the major vector of hackability.

xbox one games probably need to signed with both 'approved publisher' certificates & microsoft certificates, before it can be run on xbox one console.

Those mandatory connection every 24hrs can also be used to updates the list of valid certificates.

This also explain why MS instruct any independent game developers to works with those 'approved publisher', can't self publish.

[The Teej]

xbox one being hacked or not also largely depend on how attractive xbox one to be hacked,

and i must agree with hawkman, I can see that MS will try to discourages any homebrew for xbox one, as that are the major vector of hackability.

xbox one games probably need to signed with both 'approved publisher' certificates & microsoft certificates, before it can be run on xbox one console.

Those mandatory connection every 24hrs can also be used to updates the list of valid certificates.

This also explain why MS instruct any independent game developers to works with those 'approved publisher', can't self publish.

It should be noted that self published titles, even if they were allowed, still must go through Microsoft's own QA testing to make sure exploits and hacks aren't executed. Self published titles don't go straight on the marketplace.

[FiB3R]

...

it was hacked for piracy

Absolutely unfounded, and untrue.

I have seen noone running linux on it

Ah yes, the all seeing, all knowing HawkMan. How many peoples homes does your all seeing eye gaze upon?

http://www.free60.org/Main_Page

http://libxenon.org/index.php

Regardless, it's popularity is irrelevant, and it's outcome well known.

Lest gen was almost hack proof.

PMSL. It took 12 short months. And every time it was patched, it was hacked again.

Once the SMC/JTAG hack was blocked, we again had the naysayers proclaiming it was all over.

Not to long after, GliGli pops up from nowhere with the Rest Glitch Hack. Dirty, but devastating.

Same story with drive hacks, and the many new measures they have implemented over the years, (software, hardware, discs). Many in the know said that was over too. They were wrong.

I agree it will be harder this time, maybe much harder, but I stand by my 2 year max prediction.

Going off topic here (sue me), your views on the cause of RRoD are in the right ballpark, but also flawed, I've just never bothered to correct you.

[FiB3R]

...

xbox one being hacked or not also largely depend on how attractive xbox one to be hacked,

With the DRM measures they propose to implement, they might as well paint a massive target on their back. This is the exact sort of thing that attracts hackers.

and i must agree with hawkman, I can see that MS will try to discourages any homebrew for xbox one, as that are the major vector of hackability.

When have they every encouraged it?

xbox one games probably need to signed with both 'approved publisher' certificates & microsoft certificates, before it can be run on xbox one console.

Those mandatory connection every 24hrs can also be used to updates the list of valid certificates.

This also explain why MS instruct any independent game developers to works with those 'approved publisher', can't self publish.

Your point? It's just another security/DRM measure that people will look to defeat.

[HawkMan]

Absolutely unfounded, and untrue.

Ah yes, the all seeing, all knowing HawkMan. How many peoples homes does your all seeing eye gaze upon?

http://www.free60.org/Main_Page

http://libxenon.org/index.php

Regardless, it's popularity is irrelevant, and it's outcome well known.

that's a rather ridiculous claim in the light of the article stating the REASON for the Hack was linux and homebrew. that's like a handful of people worldwide who use it for linux. it's obviously not WHY it was hacked. as for homebrew... you're pretty damn gullible if you think the handful of 360 homebrew is why it got hacked in light of the piracy.

Find 1000 random people with hacked 360's (that means not 1000 random people from some 360 homebrew forum, if you could even find 100 registered users there) and ask them what they use their modded console for. you'll find the overwhelming answer is not homebrew and certainly not linux.

As for unfounded. where any foundation for your claim that the 360 was hacked for homebrew or linux. and no, the statements from the supposedly well intentioned hacker doesn't count.

At least on the PS3 they're somewhat truthful, though they still include the homebrew, which at least the first generations of hacks couldn't actually do. and that was after they actually claimed to do it to get back linux on it, despite linux on the console being utterly useless.

[FiB3R]

...

that's a rather ridiculous claim in the light of the article stating the REASON for the Hack was linux and homebrew. that's like a handful of people worldwide who use it for linux. it's obviously not WHY it was hacked.

Huh? "Reason" and "Why" mean the exact same thing...

rea?son

/?r?z?n/

Noun

A cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event.

why

/(h)w?/

Adverb

• For what reason or purpose.
  
• (with reference to a reason) On account of which; for which.
  

Your reasoning is... incomprehensible to me. The only person who knows the reason why he did it, is the guy that actually did it. And the history is there to show it was most certainly not for piracy.

To think people that smart just want to pirate games is ridiculous. In fact the vast majority are totally against it.

as for homebrew... you're pretty damn gullible if you think the handful of 360 homebrew is why it got hacked in light of the piracy.

The amount of homebrew available has zero correlation with why it was actually hacked in the first place. The eventual outcome is all too apparent.

In fact Microsoft were even informed of the vulnerabilities before the SMC/JTAG hack was released, but they chose to ignore it.

Find 1000 random people with hacked 360's (that means not 1000 random people from some 360 homebrew forum, if you could even find 100 registered users there) and ask them what they use their modded console for. you'll find the overwhelming answer is not homebrew and certainly not linux.

Again, your point is moot. Though you are depressingly correct. All the little ******* want to do, is run modded CoD lobbys :'(

As for unfounded. where any foundation for your claim that the 360 was hacked for homebrew or linux.

Like I said, the history is there for all to see. Interpret it how you will.

and no, the statements from the supposedly well intentioned hacker doesn't count.

But the statement from you does count? Give me a ****ing break, man.

At least on the PS3 they're somewhat truthful, though they still include the homebrew, which at least the first generations of hacks couldn't actually do. and that was after they actually claimed to do it to get back linux on it, despite linux on the console being utterly useless.

Blah blah blah.

[vcfan]

lol @ anyone who thinks consoles are hacked for "homebrew" or Linux.