Sony Playstation is not innovating

[Graimer]

At least with PS4 you can still play games, take away the internet from Xbox and it is just a paperweight.

Couldn't you say the same with tablets? Without internet, you won't get apps or 90% of the contents which make them usefull.

Without cable/internet/inputs(dvd,bd etc.) you won't have much need for your TV. Your car won't run without fuel/energy? Without electricity and water, 90% of your house's content is useless.

Without oxygen, you'd die.......

Stuff depend on each other, and it will only become "worse" as stuff gets integrated to work together. It's called life. :-)

Not trying to start a fight, but this is the way the world works and will work in the future.

Microsoft have gone and put a lot of extra features into their machine, which I don't think anyone asked for.....or wanted.

How could people want something that doesn't exists? Companies like MS, Sony etc. can't announce features and ask people if they want it first, because then all the competitors will copy it. They actually do marketing research, and since ex. lots of people use the PS3 and Xbox360 for media(non-gaming), they included more media-features. Hardcore gamers is not the same as Average Joe :-)

[Motoko.]

But how can motion and voice controls or any other technology prove itself if nobody buys the equipment -> devs don't utilize the equipment ? I agree it's pricey, but someone has to "force" changes and take the blame for it. :-)

The fact that MS didn't show any games that really shine to take advantage of Kinect 2 simply reinforces the claim that the technology while hopeful is simply not ready to be as intuitive and beyond ground breaking compared with controllers. If Nintendo and Sony moved away from motion sensing they understand the circumstances regarding the technology, if anything it's a nice experimental novelty and that's where it stands at this time.

[vcfan]

To your eyes, I thought the Sony games were better looking and ran smoother, but it's hardly something we are going to agree on because you are a staunch Microsoft defender.

:laugh: the sky is green too. can you go to the presentations and point me to where and how smoother and better the graphics were? id love to see the difference that you are seeing. all I saw was a jittery and stuttery mess with the ps4.

[Woelfel]

Don't get it twisted people, I want Sony to do good just as much as I want Nintendo and Microsoft to do good so they have to innovate to get our money. I just don't see it out of Sony. Say what you want about Nintendo, but they truly try to change how you play games. Every two generations the controller drastically changes (NES & SNES -> N64 & GC -> Wii & WiiU). They literally force you to play different and that's what I like about them. I'm talking about mandatory changing. Kinect and Move weren't mandatory so it's not really pushing anything as both of them were reactionary.

Now that Kinect 2 is...to at least have, it is getting into that territory in moving us forward (and it has a lot more usefelness than the first iteration). MS' controller has done minor revisions (albeit they don't need to change it much in my opinion...but who knows next-next gen. I don't think this will be the final gen). Sony has basically iterated on the same controller design for almost 2 decades and did a lot of reactionary things. Adding thumbsticks, Nintendo did that with N64. Adding rumble, that was after N64 controller came out with the rumble pack with Star Fox (gimmie a true star fox game...please). Six-axis, after Nintendo introduced the Wii...and then they got rid of it.

Sega started with Sega Saturn with online play (or was it 3DO...I can't remember) but really took off with Dreamcast (best system ever, don't debate me), then Sony used it in Playstation, but I can't blame them since they did come out later. Xbox came out with xbox live and it was mandatory to have broadband, and MS had a lot of backlash for that move as well (just like now...alienating audiences who didn't have good broadband...sound familiar?). MS could have went the safer route with just dialup modem, but they didn't. Playstation later came out with an addon for broadband. I could say other things...even with multiplayer games, with playstation we had to get multitaps for more people to play, whereas N64 had 4 player games. I don't believe PS2 had 4 controller ports did they?

Yea, I'm hard on Sony, but I love games that are on their system but if you look at what they've been doing over the years...it's not taking risks in how you play games, and to me, that's not innovation. PS4 just continues that trend in my eyes. I'm not trying to make a big flame war (even though it seems people want it to go that way). I'm honestly looking at all of the innovations that are happening in gaming, and Sony is not at the forefront of those innovations.

[soniqstylz]

I'm thinking if they make it mandatory (a la Kinect) because honestly...without stuff being mandatory, we're not going to get further (unless the systems update more frequently). Of course, that's a dream situation because the Vita is awesome but it's expensive.

Like SIxaxis?

I like that they make it available, but leave it to devs to fully utilize it, instead of tacked on "well we have to do something with it..."

[vcfan]

from everything I've read across the Internet, it seems all gamers want is better graphics and good games.

Sony has listened and produced a console for gamers. Microsoft have gone and put a lot of extra features into their machine, which I don't think anyone asked for.....or wanted.

nobody asked for an iphone either, they just wanted to make calls and send text messages. xbox one is not just for gamers. it includes gamers, but its going after a bigger market. you'd think with sony being in the tv business they would have been the ones to go this route, maybe integrate ps4s in tvs, but they are playing it safe, going with the same old because financially they cant take risks. selling insurance will only pay the bills for so long.

[Graimer]

The fact that MS didn't show any games that really shine to take advantage of Kinect 2 simply reinforces the claim that the technology while hopeful is simply not ready to be as intuitive and beyond ground breaking compared with controllers. If Nintendo and Sony moved away from motion sensing they understand the circumstances regarding the technology, if anything it's a nice experimental novelty and that's where it stands at this time.

They showed a the Xbox One itself which uses it. I don't know about you, but saying something like "xbox answer skype" or "xbox share", "xbox watch home and away" (bad example :p) is usefull and will simplify my life.

It's true that they didn't show of many games with Kinect support, but some of them still have it, ex. voice commands. Games don't need to use the whole unit. And with the unit included, devs can go crazy and be creative. Like in FIFA where you could yell at the ref, make a substitution(needs improvement) etc. using voice. As previously said, a possibilities needs to exist before they can be utilized.

Like SIxaxis?

I like that they make it available, but leave it to devs to fully utilize it, instead of tacked on "well we have to do something with it..."

They don't have to utilize it, but if something is optional, people buy it when they see the need. And without people owning it, devs won't bother utilizing it because of cost/gain. It's the chicken-and-egg problem all over again. Someone needs to push the bird out of the nest, sometimes it flies and sometimes it falls.

[soniqstylz]

Xbox came out with xbox live and it was mandatory to have broadband, and MS had a lot of backlash for that move as well (just like now...alienating audiences who didn't have good broadband...sound familiar?). MS could have went the safer route with just dialup modem, but they didn't. Playstation later came out with an addon for broadband. I could say other things...even with multiplayer games, with playstation we had to get multitaps for more people to play, whereas N64 had 4 player games. I don't believe PS2 had 4 controller ports did they?

* The difference is that with the Xbox broadband wasn't mandatory to just run the machine. There are 77 million 360's in the wild (I'm not getting into "well, that's inflated because of RRoD", just taking MS's numbers at face value). There are 48 million Live accounts (total, from April -- MS doesn't release Gold numbers). That means there are roughly 30 million 360's not connected to the internet at all.

* PS2 needed a multitap as well. But the PS3 could support up to 7 controllers via bluetooth.

[Motoko.]

Yea, I'm hard on Sony, but I love games that are on their system but if you look at what they've been doing over the years...it's not taking risks in how you play games, and to me, that's not innovation. PS4 just continues that trend in my eyes. I'm not trying to make a big flame war (even though it seems people want it to go that way). I'm honestly looking at all of the innovations that are happening in gaming, and Sony is not at the forefront of those innovations.

I think Sony innovated by giving a big shout for indie developers. Innovation doesn't have to be a physical/tangible product, it can be a philosophy.

[Woelfel]

They showed a the Xbox One itself which uses it. I don't know about you, but saying something like "xbox answer skype" or "xbox share", "xbox watch home and away" (bad example :p) is usefull and will simplify my life.

It's true that they didn't show of many games with Kinect support, but some of them still have it, ex. voice commands. Games don't need to use the whole unit. And with the unit included, devs can go crazy and be creative. Like in FIFA where you could yell at the ref, make a substitution(needs improvement) etc. using voice. As previously said, a possibilities needs to exist before they can be utilized.

Actually Dead Rising 3 uses Kinect (I don't know why they didn't mention this). It listens to you as you're playing the game and if the zombies are looking the other way, they can hear you, so if you make a noise, they turn around and attack you. I think that is awesome and a subtle change than really personalizes the experience.

I still want to have head-tracking in FPS games...no reason not to have it...it's so awesome and not that hard to implement with a camera view class.

[+Eternal Tempest MVC]

I think it is, the fact the PS4 is set up for onlive type game streaming that will start out being used for PS1,PS2,PS3 compatibility is pretty significant (in terms of innovation in a console) and future potential.

[Woelfel]

I think Sony innovated by giving a big shout for indie developers. Innovation doesn't have to be a physical/tangible product, it can be a philosophy.

I don't really see it that way because Microsoft did that with XBLA games earlier and with XBLIG, which is the App Store for Xbox...they just did a horrible job supporting and advertising them. We have to see what Sony does, cuz from what I heard, they will have an Indie section...Xbox Indie Games was a section as well. And they still haven't said what constitutes as "self-publishing" like will it be like XBLIG.

[Motoko.]

They showed a the Xbox One itself which uses it. I don't know about you, but saying something like "xbox answer skype" or "xbox share", "xbox watch home and away" (bad example :p) is usefull and will simplify my life.

It's true that they didn't show of many games with Kinect support, but some of them still have it, ex. voice commands. Games don't need to use the whole unit. And with the unit included, devs can go crazy and be creative. Like in FIFA where you could yell at the ref, make a substitution(needs improvement) etc. using voice. As previously said, a possibilities needs to exist before they can be utilized.

I actually can see where you're coming from, MS is actually committed to Kinect and if they go down that path and get developers aquainted with it, future revisions will expand its field of capabilities. As with anything visions don't come without big risk and MS is making a heavy investment.

I don't really see it that way because Microsoft did that with XBLA games earlier and with XBLIG, which is the App Store for Xbox...they just did a horrible job supporting and advertising them. We have to see what Sony does, cuz from what I heard, they will have an Indie section...Xbox Indie Games was a section as well. And they still haven't said what constitutes as "self-publishing" like will it be like XBLIG.

You reminded me of something important

These new consoles were just announced but the plan of execution between each company remains to be seen, this will obviously take a few years.

[Woelfel]

* The difference is that with the Xbox broadband wasn't mandatory to just run the machine. There are 77 million 360's in the wild (I'm not getting into "well, that's inflated because of RRoD", just taking MS's numbers at face value). There are 48 million Live accounts (total, from April -- MS doesn't release Gold numbers). That means there are roughly 30 million 360's not connected to the internet at all.

* PS2 needed a multitap as well. But the PS3 could support up to 7 controllers via bluetooth.

Yes, I know the difference, I was talking about how they alienated an audience. Those are still comparable. It's the same thing Microsoft is doing now, alienating an audience...and over time as technology grew, people got over it. I feel the same thing will happen (just it will take much longer...unfortunately). But I don't want to go far into that debate...I probably shouldn't have said it.

[BajiRav]

Sony built the PS4 without gimmicks and much use for buzzwords, it's up to the devs to bring out that innovation. Think about the Wii it brought casuals into the gaming world but were the motion controls innovative? I don't think so. I don't like this idea that MS is bundling in Kinect when it hasn't proven itself to be a rembrandt in changing how we play games. Sony was smart to do away with that and focus on better internals.

If Kinect is a gimmick, what do you call the touchpad and the light in the PS4 controller?

from everything I've read across the Internet, it seems all gamers want is better graphics and good games.

Sony has listened and produced a console for gamers. Microsoft have gone and put a lot of extra features into their machine, which I don't think anyone asked for.....or wanted.

How do you know no one aasked for the features? Microsoft has been conducting a survey every month for past few years where they had asked various questions about what people do on Xbox and what do they want in Xbox etc.

The fact that MS didn't show any games that really shine to take advantage of Kinect 2 simply reinforces the claim that the technology while hopeful is simply not ready to be as intuitive and beyond ground breaking compared with controllers. If Nintendo and Sony moved away from motion sensing they understand the circumstances regarding the technology, if anything it's a nice experimental novelty and that's where it stands at this time.

Did we watch the same show? Kinect was shown many times.

[Graimer]

Gee what a surprise. XB1 ran without a hitch and PS4 was a stuttery mess, who'd have thought....

Without the internet a tablet will still function as a tablet, you can still play the apps you have downloaded. Without the internet after 24 hours the XB1 stops letting you play SINGLE PLAYER games.

But that's not the end of the world. It's another business model. It's not POSSIBLE to do digital sharing without some form of online check. It's a software feature, so if you have a better solution for a DIGITAL sharing, notify MS and you might get a job. They skipped the offline play using discs to focus on the future with digital sharing. It will bite them in the ass now because of people like you, but in the future this could easily be how it's gonna work on most platforms. If MS feel that it really failed and that sales are low, they would probably publish an update that allows etc. disc-based offline play. You need to play to win or loose.

There's a reason why they don't do it, live TV watching is on the decline and has been for years, more and more people are consuming their internet on demand and downloads from amazon, itunes, etc.. people buy consoles to play games.

Some people buys it as an all-in-one media device. I know many people who owns ex. a PS3 just for the bluray player and stuff like netflix.

As for the TV. Live TV is how TV is mostly used NOW, so they focus on that. The good thing is that this is 90% software and when live TV is over and on-demand is market leading, they can just update the software to utilize that. Ffs, PS3 didn't have trophies until an update. Devices uses UPDATE to fit the future needs.

[BajiRav]

You reminded me of something important

These new consoles were just announced but the plan of execution between each company remains to be seen, this will obviously take a few years.

Microsoft's indie plan is expected in late June at Build 2013. Go open the site and check out the big ass Xbox logo.

[Melfster]

Games really using kinect 2.0 are not ready yet. They are probable much more difficult to build then standard games. I'll give Microsoft a year after launch to show something spectacular. I'd really like showcase game before I buy the xbox.

[Motoko.]

If Kinect is a gimmick, what do you call the touchpad and the light in the PS4 controller?

That's a fair assessment, I guess I pick on kinect because of the price hike for the X1 SKU

[ctrl_alt_delete]

So, adding TV capabilities and a tablet controller is innovating but adding entire streaming and sharing features never seen in a console before isn't innovating? Even on the PC it isn't entirely easy to get that setup. You need several programs and a good computer. The PS4 has dedicated hardware for it.

Im playing games on my console not watching tv, i have a tv for that.

Strictly your opinion, wrong as well.

Things you "forgot" to list for Sony.... Gaikai; the ability to stream and play games over the Internet from the ENTIRE Playstation catalog, TV capabilities, Multi-tasking, Switching back and forth between games, PS4 Streaming; uploading to Ustream or sharing your gameplay with friends and even letting one of them take control, PS4 Instant On; turning off your PS4 midgame and restarting at that exact same place, PlayGo; Being able to play video games that are in the progress of downloading, Streaming to PS Vita, etc. etc.

IF you are going to compare at least make it fair.

anything I'm missing from the list?

so far it seems the xbox has way more green going for it. but there's probably a lot I'm missing from the PS4 side of things, so looking to you guys to help me flesh out the list for both.

[Woelfel]

I think it is, the fact the PS4 is set up for onlive type game streaming that will start out being used for PS1,PS2,PS3 compatibility is pretty significant (in terms of innovation in a console) and future potential.

After some thought, it is innovative for its potential to be able to play any game ever made for their console. The best of both worlds would be that and buying all of your games digital for PS4, so that in the future, you will never have to worry about your library. It's always and forever with you. So in one side, if you buy your digital game, you have it forever...if you buy a disc, you can't (unless each disc has a key associated with it or something) because people can just share the disc and have it in their library. That's pretty cool.

[Graimer]

It is possible to do digital sharing, you've been able to share your content with 5 PS3s including your own FROM LAUNCH (which they dropped down to 3 because

*people abused it* ) without having a 24 hour check in, you can still play your own games if you are offline. Something you can't do with XB1.

Thanks, didn't know that actually, but that's the thing. People ABUSE it. If you want sharing in an all digital world, and only one a time, like you have with discs today(because publishers don't really want to lose 2/3 of their gamesales), you need to check-in to avoid conflicts.,

After some thought, it is innovative for its potential to be able to play any game ever made for their console. The best of both worlds would be that and buying all of your games digital for PS4, so that in the future, you will never have to worry about your library. It's always and forever with you. So in one side, if you buy your digital game, you have it forever...if you buy a disc, you can't (unless each disc has a key associated with it or something) because people can just share the disc and have it in their library. That's pretty cool.

True! :-) But what if they turn of the servers? This is how many talk about the xbox one. What if.... So what if Sony turns off the servers in the future.. Then all inovation is gone.

I don't think that will happend, just like I don't think MS will brick your device (they would at least update the console to allow offline use before disabling). Just wanted people to see things from both sides =)

[soniqstylz]

anything I'm missing from the list?

so far it seems the xbox has way more green going for it. but there's probably a lot I'm missing from the PS4 side of things, so looking to you guys to help me flesh out the list for both.

PS+ is $50 yearly.

Has Sony absolutely said no sharing of digital games? I know that on the PS3, all digital games were available to all players on the same console regardless of account. That's what made gamesharing popular -- you could set up a shared account with 4 other people to split the costs, then play on your own personal account.

Sony has announced the ability to use your andriod powered device as a controller. (Source)

Some may not consider it a feature, but you can livestream your PS4 game over ustream. Also, it was announced in Feb that you can play someone else's game from your console, but I can't expand on that at the moment.

PS4 also will have some form of BC through Gaikai streaming.

[ctrl_alt_delete]

It is possible to do digital sharing, you've been able to share your content with 5 PS3s including your own FROM LAUNCH (which they dropped down to 3 because people abused it) without having a 24 hour check in, you can still play your own games if you are offline. Something you can't do with XB1.

as far as I know you have to give account details to share online content on the ps3. you can install to 5 now 3 different ps3s but it can only be used on 1, not one at a time, but only 1. only psn downloaded content.

[ahhell]

PS+ is $50 yearly.

Has Sony absolutely said no sharing of digital games? I know that on the PS3, all digital games were available to all players on the same console regardless of account. That's what made gamesharing popular -- you could set up a shared account with 4 other people to split the costs, then play on your own personal account.

Sony has announced the ability to use your andriod powered device as a controller. (Source)

Um. How is $5 per month $50 Yearly?