Sony Playstation is not innovating

[Brandon H Supervisor]

As per the thread title, how exactly is that innovative?

and here's my honest to god question for everyone debating in this thread.

why does a product have to be innovative to be considered good? is the fact that the new gen has widened the bottleneck known as development potential again not good enough?

[Fourjays Veteran]

A 20 year old touch pad is their new innovation? Really? Their conference was worse than 2005, only the price was good this time around and that is all, what a train wreck.

If it adds something to games then I don't care. Whether it does waits to be seen. If you want to go down this track, none of the Xbox features are innovations either. Kinect? Eyetoy. Voice recognition? I had a program for Windows 95 that did this (and arguably not much worse than my phone). TV integration? PS3 had this with PlayTV. Improvements on existing technology, but not true innovations.

Innovation doesn't need to solve problems. Innovation needs to have something different that works. Inventions are something that can solve problems for people, for example solving world hunger or pollution or something like that.

I stand by what I said. Obviously you see value in these kind of "innovations". I don't.

It can help solve problems as well though, for example people that think using a controller is too complicated. Now maybe that isn't a big deal to you, but older people don't want to play games because they are too complicated for them. People that used to play games and don't anymore a lot of times don't because the controller looks too complicated, well Kinect can solve this problem and since Kinect 2.0 uses better, more accurate technology than this can work for them. Just like the Wii, that is why the WII was so popular, because it addressed this problem.

Fair point. Needs games to utilize it though. I still stand by my point that pure motion control is next to useless in games. Is equivalent to using just one analog stick. It works, but it is limiting.

I will explain all of the innovations later, but it is an all in one if only because it is on one input. I don't have to change inputs for multiple devices.

I get how it works. I still wouldn't call it all-in-one as it is dependent on the cable/satellite box.

I can play a bluray disk, I can watch TV, I can play a game, I can listen to music. I can layer my existing Dish network receiver on the screen along with the channel guide that works together so I can find the channels that I need. When you have something like Direct TV or Dish, you have 500 channels. When I first had Cable back in 1977, I just had maybe 20 channels so they were easy to remember, I don't know what number my number is if I want to watch Spike TV, I can say all of this using my voice and wham I am good to go. I can't do that now. I can't search for what I want right now using my voice without channel scanning. That is fixing a problem right there. I didn't even mention Skype that can be used on all computers, phones, and tablets around the world.

Don't you have TV guides, favourites and search on your cable/satellite box? I haven't used a channel number on my TV since I switched to digital OTA TV (and later satellite).

The tablet interacts with your Xbox just like Sony here. I can use it with Windows 8 or Xbox games to control functions or use it as a second screen. So it is an enabler of different experiences that you can't get solo on your phone or tablet. It works with them together.

You missed my point. Wasn't talking about interaction.

Do you have a family? Because I can't find my remote often. Different members of my family grab the remote control and I had to find it in a couch cushion a few times.

Yes, although not with young children. Everyone here leaves the remote in the same place (on a table next to the sofa). That way everyone knows where to find it. Was the same when I was a child. I can understand that may be an issue for others. It was more of an off-hand remark than a specific argument. Given that it is an all-in-two ( :p ) I'd still just use the Xbox controller as it'd no doubt be way quicker and less mistake-prone.

Speech recognition is becoming practical now.

Tell that to my phone. Not only does it still make too many mistakes, but it is slower. Why tell it to open Twitter when I can just tap the icon?

Wrong, Kinect has a lot of innovations and I can post more when I can think clearly, there is a lot it can do, because it knows where you are in the room and what you are looking at, when you switch controllers it knows what controller you have. With the cloud it can update facial expressions it can read your heart rate and it can tell what sports team you like based on the Tshirt you are wearing and it can do that in the dark. It can track multiple fingers, it can track when you look away from the screen it can tell where your eyes are looking. There is a lot you can do with that.

There is a lot and I mean a lot you are missing here. Kinect isn't one strategy, it's not one technology. It's a part of the ecosystem of technology. There are two games at launch that use motion control for Kinect. A new Kinect sports game which scans your entire body and puts it in game and then there is Fantasia which is one of Game Spots best of E3. Motion control isn't dead at all nor is it a gimmick. It is only just a part of a piece that isn't the whole.

Good morning Daaaave... Sorry, couldn't resist. :p

Don't feel you really read what I said. I'm saying it is near useless for pure motion control gaming. That is, no other input than the Kinect. I'm not disputing it can do a lot of clever things either. But as a primary control method motion control falls short for anything but the most simple games.

Did you see Quantum Break, Ryse (which does not use quick time events, that is false), TitanFall? Witcher 3? Dead Rising 3?, Crimson Dragon? D4? Sunset Overdrive?

I completely disagree with you there dude. This isn't all of them either, there is going to be more at the euro game show.

I saw all of them and feel it isn't any different from the problems the 360 had with games. Of those you listed, the only one interesting me is Witcher 3, which is multi-platform as far as I know. As I said, none of the exclusives massively grabbed my attention. inFamous, DriveClub (forgot that one) and Forza 5 is all I'm interested in.

Quantum Break could be good, but the TV show tie idea sounds like a recipe for a mediocre experience. Maybe it won't be, but my gut instinct on the idea is it won't turn out that great. I also have to question whether it is going to be a single play-through experience due to the tie-in. I love story-driven games, but I also love playing them again and again. I was really hyped for Ryse pre-E3. Now I couldn't care less. Just a load of button mashing. I did say on Twitter pre-E3 that it could be awesome or terrible as a fine balance would be required. Unfortunately it's the latter. As for Titanfall, a big "meh" again. No interest in mechs (most impractical idea ever) and I'm very picky when it comes to anything sci-fi. Crimson Dragon and D4 are both too arcadey for my tastes (and that motorcycle game... oh dear). Sunset Overdrive didn't grab me either.

I've never found many of the Xbox games very compelling. Is perhaps down to what I want from a console. I gave up on PC gaming for two reasons; more time fixing games than playing them, and basically every game being the same military or sci-fi shooter with little to distinguish it. It took me a long time to decide between the Xbox 360 and the PS3 and it all came down to the announcement of LittleBigPlanet. It was fresh, creative and a genuinely new idea. Went with the PS3 and after the release of Uncharted 2 (which was a huge kick up the arse for others developers) I've not regretted it once. (Before the PC gamers pile in to murder me, PC games have got considerably better since then. )

Simply put, Sony "innovates" (although I do use the term loosely) by investing in developers who've got creative ideas. Do they always work out brilliantly? No. Are they terrible? Rarely. Meanwhile the Xbox continually seems to put out the same two styles of game - arcade games, and the same-old-tried-and-tested PC games I am oh-so-bored of. Some of them are big hits, but that's easy when you aren't really breaking the mold (see CoD). The few times they are inventive (Ryse) they seem to miss the mark quite badly.

Of course it depends on your tastes. I can get why people would prefer the Xbox exclusives (PC experience on a console), but I've always found the PlayStation exclusives to be far more varied and creative. I expect the PS4 to be the same.

[Rodrigo]

After I read the entire OP post and skims through the first page of posts, I had to skip to the very end. I call this, Microsoft-is-at-work. Paying someone to say crap about their competition just to get their product sold. Happens to Zune, then Windows 8, now the console.

lol

See, this is the kind of lame attitude people have. If someone has an opinion different than yours they are either getting paid, idiots, blind, or all.

[MindTrickz]

"With Xbox One, you can start playing immediately as games install." They just say install, so I'm not sure if that's only disc-based install or digital. I would be suprised if it wasn't both.

No, that is not the same. Sony has play while the game is downloading. Microsoft has play while the game is installing. Not the same thing.

That's powered by Gaikai-software isn't it? They're just using the owners PS4 as a "gaikai-server" for the remote player/vita. So he kinda got you there by saying "apart from Gaikai.." ^^

No, it is not power by Gaikai. The PS4 connects to the Vita, and remote play enabled. In fact PS4 Remote Play ?just happens?, no dev support required. On all titles with the expection of those using move or PSeye. I love how you tried to class it Gaikai so you could sweep it away.

I'm sorry, but those features aren't comparable from my point of view. Sony is bringing streaming of their catalog to the console. That already exists with hulu, netflix etc. on both consoles. It's just that Sony is giving access to their media themselves. Microsoft is adding support for live tv, with ex. "xbox watch Days of our Lives" instead of finding the channel etc. That's new.

But how is that innovative to a gaming console? Emphasis on GAMING. I already have a top set box for television, and could give a **** about Days of our Lives.

[Graimer]

No, that is not the same. Sony has play while the game is downloading. Microsoft has play while the game is installing. Not the same thing.

No, it is not power by Gaikai. The PS4 connects to the Vita, and remote play enabled. In fact PS4 Remote Play ?just happens?, no dev support required. On all titles with the expection of those using move or PSeye. I love how you tried to class it Gaikai so you could sweep it away.

But how is that innovative to a gaming console? Emphasis on GAMING. I already have a top set box for television, and could give a **** about Days of our Lives.

1st: I said " I'm not sure if that's only disc-based install or digital.", but "installing" could also be downloading. Unlike the PS3, when you download something on X360 it's already installed, there's no separate step. So with Xbox One it's 90% sure both disc-based install and downloading(start playing after x % just like PS4). That's how the media understood it too.

2nd: Yes, the support is just "there", but did you read my whole post? I didn't say it used Gaikai servers. I said it most likely uses Gaikai TECHNOLOGY, utilizing the PS4 itself as the server and the remote player's PS4 or Vita as a client. This is all software and happends behind the scenes. Do you really think Sony uses one game-streaming technology for remote play and a COMPLETELY different technology for the backwards compability? Are you listening to yourself? They are using their own servers for streaming games, and most likely 50+% of the same Gaikai TECHNOLOGY to power remote play.

3rd: I didn't say that MS was very innovative with the TV-features(although the "xbox watch <nameofshow>" IS new as far as I know, and the support for apps that automatically matches up to the program IS new, ex. the fantasy league app when you're watching sports). I DID however say that Sony's media-streaming feature are just like netflix and other webstreaming solutions, while MS took another approach and connected to the set-top box itself to intergrate them. That's two very seperate things, which makes them non-comparable.

I have a router, but it can ALSO act as a VPN. I have a blu-ray-player that can ALSO play DVD adn go on the web. I have a PHONE that could ALSO play games. Modern devices support multiple features. Game consoles are becoming media-consoles. They are made for gaming, but supports media-features, AND PEOPLE USE THEM. Maybe not the hardcore gamers, but guess what? Your not the majority of the users. So how is new media-features in gaming consoles NOT innovation no matter which company brings it? Ex. being able to use an ESPN app to see live scores from a real football game, while playing a sports game IS innovative ON THIS TYPE OF SYSTEMS, and it's usefull(for some). Take your head out of your a**. The "play" in Playstation could both mean "play a game" and "play a movie".

And last but not least, why would I care what you watch and care about? It was an example of a tv-show that people have heard of, and since you don't like it (which means you KNOW it), I guess it was a good example.</nameofshow>

[MindTrickz]

anything I'm missing from the list?

so far it seems the xbox has way more green going for it. but there's probably a lot I'm missing from the PS4 side of things, so looking to you guys to help me flesh out the list for both.

Hahahahaa.... That is because that is a bull**** list you created in Excel (you even misspelled "features" correctly, lol) to paint a false image that the Xbone has a lot more features than the PS4, by omitting a lot of the "freatures" that the PS4 has and the Xbone doesn't. You even falsely labeled a lot of features that the PS4 has incorrectly. The PS4 eye is 3D. You can use other devices to control games (Vita, Duh). You're desperate. Care to try again?

Edit: here is a quick amended list, just to show you how foolish you are being.

[Woelfel]

and here's my honest to god question for everyone debating in this thread.

why does a product have to be innovative to be considered good? is the fact that the new gen has widened the bottleneck known as development potential again not good enough?

I don't believe that the Playstation 4 isn't good. It is a great gaming machine. I'm saying that it is not innovating in a way to push gaming forward to play games in different ways. This is not the "policy" talk about being checked every 24 hours nor about used games. It's about changing to move it forward. Yes, it may not be something you deem valuable right now, but I feel it is valuable to the gaming industry. Not change for the sake of change, but change for the better.

[srbeen]

and here's my honest to god question for everyone debating in this thread.

why does a product have to be innovative to be considered good? is the fact that the new gen has widened the bottleneck known as development potential again not good enough?

Because its an update to a product. If it wasn't updated nobody would expect innovation, but since they are updating it they expect immediate innovation to justify the update.

[Guest]

I dont want all the TV stuff, i just want something that has a controller that i can play awesome games on. I have been playing games like that for years. Yes i am old and thats what i want! I have money and Sony and Microsoft want my money. Right now Sony has it because its cheaper and i can still rent games by the disc from lovefilm.

[slapfacemcdougal]

I don't believe that the Playstation 4 isn't good. It is a great gaming machine. I'm saying that it is not innovating in a way to push gaming forward to play games in different ways. This is not the "policy" talk about being checked every 24 hours nor about used games. It's about changing to move it forward. Yes, it may not be something you deem valuable right now, but I feel it is valuable to the gaming industry. Not change for the sake of change, but change for the better.

Why must they "push for different ways to play games?" What are they doing that isn't currently working?

[Skin]

Hahahahaa.... That is because that is a bull**** list you created in Excel (you even misspelled "features" correctly, lol) to paint a false image that the Xbone has a lot more features than the PS4, by omitting a lot of the "freatures" that the PS4 has and the Xbone doesn't. You even falsely labeled a lot of features that the PS4 has incorrectly. The PS4 eye is 3D. You can use other devices to control games (Vita, Duh). You're desperate. Care to try again?

Edit: here is a quick amended list, just to show you how foolish you are being.

Your chart is insane since a lot of the non-green 'yes' under xbox should be green... also, thinks like the RAM speed is mostly poppycock as the DDR5 vs 3 has been talked about and will be negligible and has yet to be seen against the offload of cloud and burst streaming graphics etc, also you CAN trade games with xbox.. AND, DRM isn't bad at all - I wish people would stop thinking it is so bad, and hating for no real reason.

I could go on with your list, but it is crazy to mark half those things with red or not at all...

[ahhell]

and here's my honest to god question for everyone debating in this thread.

why does a product have to be innovative to be considered good? is the fact that the new gen has widened the bottleneck known as development potential again not good enough?

I never said that it had to but since the TITLE of the thread is "Sony Playstation is not innovating" an incrementally hardware upgrade is not innovation (unless you go by Apple's definition of innovation, of course).

[Woelfel]

Why must they "push for different ways to play games?" What are they doing that isn't currently working?

Why would you NOT want them to push for different ways to play? So hypothetically, 8 years from now when the Playstation 5 is out, you just a more powerful box? If it's not broke, don't fix it approach? If that's the case, we wouldn't have cell phones. Then we wouldn't have smartphones. This is technology. These are video games! We have so much potential in gaming. I WANT A FREAKING HOLODECK, THAT'S WHY! I WANT TO DO THINGS THAT WE ONLY SEE IN MOVIES! I WANT TO DO THINGS THAT I COULD IMAGINE WHEN I WAS A CHILD *This anger isn't directed towards you, just generally speaking "aloud"*

To ask why they should push different ways is *in my opinion* short-sighted. When the N64 came out when I was a child and changed the way we can play 3D games, that was crazy to me. Now a thumbstick is the backbone of all 3D movement in games. Being able to talk to people around the world in seconds and experiencing the same game together is crazy. Now it's foolish to think that I can't do that. I'm glad people took those risks in the industry to make those innovations happen to have different experiences and become standards in our industry. That's why I want them to innovate, that's why I want them to change the way we play games.

Like I said earlier, there's nothing WRONG with the Playstation 4, I just don't see it being innovative in ways to push the gaming industry forward to have new experiences that we wouldn't be able to do today. A more powerful box can only do but so much. Look at Octulus Rift and how it's bring us closer to Virtual Reality...a more powerful PS4 (potentially PS5) won't bring that type of innovation with going "if it's not broken, don't fix it." approach.

[The_Observer]

I watched the Sony Playstation E3 2013 press conference and they are talking about the same kind of thing. Watch the video here:

Go to 58 minutes in... Talking about Sony Movies, Music, and TV. Whoops... I guess you done goofed.

MS are pushing more of a meida centre then a console, while sony have plans for this, they are still more pushing a console first and a media center next.

Also hy should i have two devices just to watch tv, doesnt sound too logical to me? i have a network cable into my tv that streams everything form my server, i also dont get a sound a console running in the background. I like to limit my power use and not have three devices turned on just to watch the news.

[Graimer]

Edit: here is a quick amended list, just to show you how foolish you are being.

Resell game: possible

GDDR5: hardly a feature, it's a piece of hardware called volatile memory, and the xbox has a kind of it too.

DRM: PS4 has DRM too, on digital downloads.

The lists says 3D cam for both consoles. And don't tell us you edited the "old lines", because then you would have fixed the "features" typo that you complained about yourself.

[MindTrickz]

Your chart is insane since a lot of the non-green 'yes' under xbox should be green... also, thinks like the RAM speed is mostly poppycock as the DDR5 vs 3 has been talked about and will be negligible and has yet to be seen against the offload of cloud and burst streaming graphics etc, also you CAN trade games with xbox.. AND, DRM isn't bad at all - I wish people would stop thinking it is so bad, and hating for no real reason.

I could go on with your list, but it is crazy to mark half those things with red or not at all...

I'm not entirely sure you whether you are serious or not? RAM speed or GDDR5 is poppycock? What utter nonsense. The RAM is one of the reasons why the PS4 games will run 1080p@60fps versus the Xbone's 30fps. You are being delusional if you think that will not make a difference.

[vcfan]

I'm not entirely sure you whether you are serious or not? RAM speed or GDDR5 is poppycock? What utter nonsense. The RAM is one of the reasons why the PS4 games will run 1080p@60fps versus the Xbone's 30fps. You are being delusional if you think that will not make a difference.

do you always write lies to try to make yourself believe something that isn't true? who are you trying to fool with the 30fps crap? the last guy that tried to pass off that lie got ridiculed out of his own thread.

[Tha Bloo Monkee]

Why fix something that ain't broken ;)

[ctrl_alt_delete]

I'm not entirely sure you whether you are serious or not? RAM speed or GDDR5 is poppycock? What utter nonsense. The RAM is one of the reasons why the PS4 games will run 1080p@60fps versus the Xbone's 30fps. You are being delusional if you think that will not make a difference.

at e3 I've heard nothing of games running 30fps, I've heard xbox games running 1080 at 60fps. so if you have proof of what you say then please show and tell. you can go watch the xbox e3 event.

[MindTrickz]

Resell game: possible

GDDR5: hardly a feature, it's a piece of hardware called volatile memory, and the xbox has a kind of it too.

DRM: PS4 has DRM too, on digital downloads.

The lists says 3D cam for both consoles. And don't tell us you edited the "old lines", because then you would have fixed the "features" typo that you complained about yourself.

It says that, because I only amended some of the list. I left his spelling error in. The GDDR5 will make a significant difference. Freely reselling is not possible.

[ctrl_alt_delete]

Why fix something that ain't broken ;)

if we were supposed to go by this then we'd still be using punch cards as computers and riding horse and carriages.

[MindTrickz]

do you always write lies to try to make yourself believe something that isn't true? who are you trying to fool with the 30fps crap? the last guy that tried to pass off that lie got ridiculed out of his own thread.

Lies? I have nothing to gain by lying. Here is my source. http://www.examiner.com/article/ps4-gddr5-ram-compared-against-xbox-720-ddr3-ram-and-esram

[ctrl_alt_delete]

It says that, because I only amended some of the list. I left his spelling error in.

if I had spelling errors, cool, people could've easily pointed that you. but all in all, English is my second language and I think I've come a long way. yes, there's always room for improvements.

[vcfan]

60fps gddr5 showing how its done

http://youtu.be/2xvHUTcfFxY

[vcfan]

Lies? I have nothing to gain by lying. Here is my source. http://www.examiner....3-ram-and-esram

lets take some bloggers word for it.im sure he has all the die masks for the chip. debunked in 2 seconds

http://www.eurogamer...railer-released