BF4 on X1 at PAX Running on PC's

[Arceles]

The Z is as current as it gets.  128 is as high as it gets.  The PC does not have anything that compares to the Xbox 360/One sound chips, or I'd own it.

 

You're basically arguing that your card is better because it's on PC, not because of anything it actually does.

And you're saying that only goes up to 128 voices and I told you that's otherwise, also you *think* that xbox has better sound overall when many people would disagree on that. Xbox 1 isn't the holy grail... on anything, trying to cover so many things with so little depth is like doing nothing at all.

[JonnyLH]

Umm, how about the game itself?  :huh: The engine isn't the game, merely the tool (to oversimplify matters). From my limited experience of developing a simple 2D game, just about any part of a game could cause problems. I think an issue with Frostbite is unlikely, but not entirely out of the question. Microsoft's common codebase would only help EA/Dice's development of the Frostbite engine so far so EA/Dice may have their own issues to resolve (there will be elements that are completely unrelated, as well as elements that are entirely new and/or Xbox One specific). As I said, I'd be surprised if there were any major issues with Frostbite at this point though.

 

And that may all be irrelevant anyway - they could just be using an older build for demonstration purposes (as I said before, I would expect them to "fork" a mostly-stable version at an earlier date and then refine it slightly for the purpose), so the build used could have issues running on the Xbox hardware that no longer exist in the latest development build. Not to mention the many other possible reasons (minor gameplay bugs when running on an Xbox, ease of access to PC vs Xbox kit, debug tools running in the background, more suitable for output to a big screen, easier to run exactly what they wanted to show, or even it just being a very recent build).

 

As I said here, and in the similar PS4 threads, judging the consoles and games from these pre-release demos is an exercise in futility and I really wouldn't try reading into it too much. Only time to be concerned is if there are issues post-release.

The game ties into the engine which works with the common libraries which are similar between platforms. Its why so many people have been praising MS for their common codebase idea but people don't quite grasp the actual amplitude of what it means. There will be better ways to perform things, and there will be a considerable amount of work to get it on the platform but once its there; DICE can feel comfortable that it will be a game which already runs really well. The engine is the code which defers between platforms not the games code itself. If game code changed, then you'd see slight differences in many things between games and not an actual mirror copy of that game. Since the PC and X1 share so much between them, then the engine feels right at home. What I'm saying is, if they have a stable PC build, they have a stable X1 build.

 

Yeah I agree with you definitely there, people should not read too much into pre-releases of software although the fact that its not been shown on the platform smells fishy to me.

[Sandor]

It isn't just the ESRAM.  Things are optimized for low latency with no driver issues and plenty of extra processors and such.

 

No console has ever done anything the PC can't do.  Good luck finding anything that measures up to the Xbox One audio chip in a PC though.

Then you plug it in to your TV with its standard speakers.

[Sandor]

Love the "no big deal" posts.

 

Fact is it's supposed to be on the Xbox so show it on the xbox. Why create a ruse and show it on a PC?

 

It's fraudulent lying. One conclusion - it's better on the PC.

[spaceelf]

And you're saying that only goes up to 128 voices and I told you that's otherwise

You told me you don't believe their own spec page?  Alright.  I'll take the manufacturers word over yours, and if you think 1024 imaginary 2d voices in software (that PCI and PCIe 1x don't have the bandwidth to process anyway) or 128 3d counts against 512 hardware 3d voices there's not much I could do to convince you.

 

Then you plug it in to your TV with its standard speakers.

My TV is my monitor with a receiver hooked up to a 5.1 set.

[trooper11]

And you're saying that only goes up to 128 voices and I told you that's otherwise, also you *think* that xbox has better sound overall when many people would disagree on that. Xbox 1 isn't the holy grail... on anything, trying to cover so many things with so little depth is like doing nothing at all.

 

Wait, how do you know the X1 does not have at least as good sound quality as that coming from a pc?

 

You guys are digging a deep hole here.

 

 

 

Love the "no big deal" posts.

 

Fact is it's supposed to be on the Xbox so show it on the xbox. Why create a ruse and show it on a PC?

 

It's fraudulent lying. One conclusion - it's better on the PC.

 

 

Well I guess you missed the last couple of console generations where pcs have been used to demo games. As long as they run the game at the appropriate settings, its not fraudulent.  If you guys can prove they are not doing that, then they are lying.

 

But hey, if you want to assume that demos on a pc equal they are lying, then time to stick to pc gaming and not worry yourself with this console business.

[Arceles]

Wait, how do you know the X1 does not have at least as good sound quality as that coming from a pc?

 

You guys are digging a deep hole here.

Try to put a decent pair of headphones -directly- into the X1, then, after that, realize that the SnR will be quite poor, since there is no real analog improvements done on the audio part, that's why SnR is very important on soundcards, because it tells how much crossover there is between digital and the output analog signal. Hell, some soundcards even let you change the amplifiers used if you are not happy with them. Audio quality != Audio gaming. but PC has both :D

[trooper11]

Try to put a decent pair of headphones -directly- into the X1, then, after that, realize that the SnR will be quite poor, since there is no real analog improvements done on the audio part, that's why SnR is very important on soundcards, because it tells how much crossover there is between digital and the output analog signal. Hell, some soundcards even let you change the amplifiers used if you are not happy with them. Audio quality != Audio gaming. but PC has both :D

 

Ah ok, so your saying that plugging headphones directly into an X1 will be poorer quality than plugging directly into a pc.

 

Well since you obviously know that the X1 hardware is poorer, then that seems like a reasonable claim.

 

However, you never qualified your claim to be just about headphones plugged into an X1. I thought you were trying to say that audio output in general was poorer, but your not saying that.

 

For those of us using it in a home theater, the audio quality should be the same on the X1 vs a pc then.

[Arceles]

Ah ok, so your saying that plugging headphones directly into an X1 will be poorer quality than plugging directly into a pc.

 

Well since you obviously know that the X1 hardware is poorer, then that seems like a reasonable claim.

 

However, you never qualified your claim to be just about headphones plugged into an X1. I thought you were trying to say that audio output in general was poorer, but your not saying that.

 

For those of us using it in a home theater, the audio quality should be the same on the X1 vs a pc then.

A home theatre effectively acts as an external "sound card" so yeah, as long as you have good DACs, everything is alright.

[Arceles]

You told me you don't believe their own spec page?  Alright.  I'll take the manufacturers word over yours, and if you think 1024 imaginary 2d voices in software (that PCI and PCIe 1x don't have the bandwidth to process anyway) or 128 3d counts against 512 hardware 3d voices there's not much I could do to convince you.

 

Those 3d voices are from the eax 5, the manufacturar tells you things indeed but if you dig deeper you know really what's going on, anyway, I already made my point, and I insists that having 4 dedicated arm cores just for audio is a thing that the X1 will only fantasize.

[BajiRav]

Then you plug it in to your TV with its standard speakers.

Uh..I am pretty sure many people here have good sound systems. I have one of the cheapest on my Xbox 360 (Onkyo driving a Polk 5.1 setup).

[trooper11]

Those 3d voices are from the eax 5, the manufacturar tells you things indeed but if you dig deeper you know really what's going on, anyway, I already made my point, and I insists that having 4 dedicated arm cores just for audio is a thing that the X1 will only fantasize.

 

 

To be honest, its a hollow victory for you.

 

This was a silly argument to begin with.  In the grand scheme of things, headphone output quality on a pc vs a console ranks about as low as you can go on the things that matter to most consumers.  Obviously, console headphone quality has been good enough for a lot of users.

 

This all started because the idea of a console never measuring up to a pc was brought up.

[Arceles]

To be honest, its a hollow victory for you.

 

This was a silly argument to begin with.  In the grand scheme of things, headphone output quality on a pc vs a console ranks about as low as you can go on the things that matter to most consumers.  Obviously, console headphone quality has been good enough for a lot of users.

 

This all started because the idea of a console never measuring up to a pc was brought up.

Point taken, then again, I said that I like high quality audio :).

[trooper11]

Nothing wrong with wanting nothing but the best.  Videophiles, audiophiles, technophiles, etc.  All of us that fall into those categories are the people that spend the big bucks to get the 'best' experience, even if that means something as little as a 5% difference in the real world.  Early adopters fall into that category in that they are happy to pay the premium for new devices because they want it now.

 

The whole reason pc gaming exists is because there are people that want that high end hardware and are willing to pay for it in order to have the best possible gaming experience.

[HawkMan]

What's the whole lot more? An engine which is hugely optimized on the PC as standard will be MORE optimised on the X1. Welcome to MS's vision of the common codebase. That's why it doesn't add up for me.

There is a LOT more to a game fine than just the directX and OGL or whatever implementation. Otherwise anyone could make a game, and they wouldn't need game programmers, just artists.

[Argi]

So uhh, what's the problem?  PS4 and X1 are basically just PCs anyway.  Part of the appeal is that devs can write once and not have to deal with porting [to the same extent as ps3]

[HawkMan]

Audiophiles wouldn't listen to music from a pc anyway, regardless of sound card quality.

HT enthusiasts will have a decent amp with either TOSlink or hdmi in for audio so the DAC processor is there and the Xbox sound card does the processing of the actual 3d sound.

[Arceles]

Audiophiles wouldn't listen to music from a pc anyway, regardless of sound card quality.

HT enthusiasts will have a decent amp with either TOSlink or hdmi in for audio so the DAC processor is there and the Xbox sound card does the processing of the actual 3d sound.

There are levels, yes, you can go full toslink (actually this is not that much prefered), HDMI (more prefered) but at the end it comes to whatever DAC and amplifier you have, some prefer USB! and from that to an amplifier. The PC is a middle ground provided you have decent soundcard.

[HawkMan]

Actually if you have digital transfer to the amp/dac the sound card is rather irrelevant, outside of games and 3d positional audio quality. And an all purpose ARM CPU is not the best choice for a sound processor.

[Arceles]

Actually if you have digital transfer to the amp/dac the sound card is rather irrelevant, outside of games and 3d positional audio quality. And an all purpose ARM CPU is not the best choice for a sound processor.

The quad core ARM processor of the soundblaster cards it's contained within a SoC, that has functions only related to audio processing (for example within that SoC there is another DAC, not used for the newer models but used for example on the Recon 3d). In any case, any motherboard has a soundcard to at least send the signal digitally to the AMP, whether onboard or not. so it's not that irrelevant.

[HawkMan]

And now you're talking about the DAC again and not the sound processing...

In any case the dac is far less relevant on a console as console owners are far more likely to hook their sound up to a receiver or soundboard over digital means than a PC owner.

[blerk]

Love the "no big deal" posts.

 

Fact is it's supposed to be on the Xbox so show it on the xbox. Why create a ruse and show it on a PC?

 

It's fraudulent lying. One conclusion - it's better on the PC.

 

I don't see the problem, be it the PS4 or the XB1 showing their games on developer kit (i.e. - PC) units. For all intents and purposes - a devkit specced PC is a console. The game when it's running on the dev pc is not going to show any features that won't be on the console game, and if anything, at this stage the dev builds most likely aren't showing everything that will be in the final retail build. 

 

If a dev shows a PC version of the game (with features that won't be in the console version) and then claim it as the console version, then there's a problem. 

[Fourjays Veteran]

The game ties into the engine which works with the common libraries which are similar between platforms. Its why so many people have been praising MS for their common codebase idea but people don't quite grasp the actual amplitude of what it means. There will be better ways to perform things, and there will be a considerable amount of work to get it on the platform but once its there; DICE can feel comfortable that it will be a game which already runs really well. The engine is the code which defers between platforms not the games code itself. If game code changed, then you'd see slight differences in many things between games and not an actual mirror copy of that game. Since the PC and X1 share so much between them, then the engine feels right at home. What I'm saying is, if they have a stable PC build, they have a stable X1 build.

And how often is a game stable across all PCs? ;)

[MikeChipshop Member]

Why is this thread still alive? 

[spaceelf]

Why is this thread still alive? 

It's not November yet.